UU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[fredrichnietze]

21 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

I don't believe there is 1 pokemon that can counter every Tyhlosion set, however there's a large list of counters/checks for each Typhlosion set. ie Mantine can beat sunny day + specs(assuming hp grass), however loses to mixed with tpunch. I think part I'm finding hard to agree with is that everyone is that people are looking at all these specs eruption calcs and saying it's op. But there are quite a few pokemon that 4hko at best from it, or straight up immune. And let's face it if there is a full hp Typhlosion on the field, chances are it's going to click eruption. Along with this we have hazards to prevent the powerful eruption, pursuit users as revenge killers/hinders and scarf Diglet (but that's shit imo).

sorry kiz but your staff now and staff are bad at comp, everyone knows this.

you're right ofc but type writers and monkeys and Shakespeare right?

[DaftCoolio]

7 hours ago, BlackJovi said:

so the fact that we can stall out typhlosion with calm slowking doesn't make it op or overcentralizing or whatever? 

It may be op and over centralizing but the fact that it has counters and can be played around suggests it doesn't need to be instantly banned, which a few players called for. Should give time for players to adapt and the relatively new tier to develop. 

Edited October 15, 2016 by DaftCoolio

[Thunderprime]

11 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

sorry kiz but your staff now and staff are bad at comp, everyone knows this.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

you're right ofc but type writers and monkeys and Shakespeare right?
 

 

 

Arent you the guy that said he didnt play comps and was enjoying catching pokemons?

 

On a serious note I dont see how typhosion is that op, erruption is really strong but it still need to be at full hp and it rarely happens for long in every match I play. Also only got 8 pp up and the 3 other moves are kinda weak.

I dont see how altaria cant wall it xept for hp ice which is easily scoutable

[fredrichnietze]

25 minutes ago, Thunderprime said:

Arent you the guy that said he didnt play comps and was enjoying catching pokemons?

no you must have me confused with someone else.

[pachima]

I´m divided about this. It´s snorlax all over again. Typhlo does not have 18 moves or whatever the number was (glaring you @fredrichnietze)

Specs eruption might be the most powerful set there, but also the most easily counterable (Flash fire, thick fat, bla bla bla)

Mixed on the other hand, despite not being so instantly powerful, covers a lot more threats than the first set does, but even then, Typhlo has switch-ins depending on the moveset (Tales for no eq, slowking for no solar beam, grumpig for pretty much every set, altaria for no hp ice)

Also there is spikes (probably not so used) that limits the effectiveness of both specs and life ball sets.

I don´t play UU much neither have a typhlosion so I cant be biased about this. Anywya, I think we should give time for people to adapt.

[fredrichnietze]

sunny day + orb lets ty do more dmg. yea you can only have 4 moves but when fireblast in the sun does significantly more dmg, why not? all those people protect scouting specs and switching to counters and 120 power grass move comes in handy versus bulky waters, and rock types which resist ty's main stab.

252+ SpA Life Orb Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 55-66 (20.5 - 24.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax in Sun: 67-79 (25 - 29.5%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[RysPicz]

9 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

sunny day + orb lets ty do more dmg. yea you can only have 4 moves but when fireblast in the sun does significantly more dmg, why not? all those people protect scouting specs and switching to counters and 120 power grass move comes in handy versus bulky waters, and rock types which resist ty's main stab.

252+ SpA Life Orb Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax: 55-66 (20.5 - 24.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Snorlax in Sun: 67-79 (25 - 29.5%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Fred, we are talking about Typhlosion in UU... Calcs with Snorlax do not prove it's power in the tier.

 

Right, noone bothered to make it official, I'll try then...

 

Requesting a discussion thread (or a quick ban if possible under offensive uber characteristics) for Typhlosion.

 

The newcomer is something that looks terryfying on paper. In practice, it's no difference- belive me, I know, I used Typhlosions. I'm not speaking from dry theory. Replays of battles with this monster could be uploaded on popular adult portal under cathegory 'rape'. It has multiple sets, with 3 of them being the most prominent:

1. Eruption, Extrasensory, HP Grass, Fire Blast (or Flamethrower), Timid, Specs.

2. HP Grass, Fire Blast (or Flamethrower), Earthquake, Filler (Rock Slide sounds dope but mine runs Low Kick since it's a set for OU), Hasty, Orb.

3. Sunny Day, HP Ice, Solarbeam, Fire Blast/ Flamethrower with either Orb, Charcoal or Lum Berry.

 

As far as I can see from the discussion, people are worried about that 150 Base power STAB move. That's understandable, but if you ask me, the set I see as most threatening, is the last one.

 

Sunnybeam set gives Typhlosion the necessary coverage of both Grass and Ice, allowing it to reliably take down it's switch ins- Slowking and Altaria, while sun-powered (and maybe orb/ blaze too) Fire Blast or Flamethrower deal really scary amount of damage to everything else. Cradily might counter the flamethrower version but dies to Fire Blast.

252+ SpA Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily in Sun: 103-123 (53.3 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Typhlosion Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking: 124-146 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Now, why Calm Slowking is a no-go?

First of all, it's sole purpose in team is to stop Typhlosion. It literally does not have any other job. It cannot outstall Manectric, Ampharos pretty much shits on it very hard, it does not stop Exeggutor either. It has much more utility in the tier as a physically defensive pokemon able to counter top tier threats like Scizor, Hitmonlee, Tentacruel, Azumarill or even Armaldo. It does not stop any other special attacker in the tier (as with calm nature, it's supposed to be a special wall) at all and is solely made as a counter for that offensive behemoth. This is not DPP/ BW to run a Calm Slowking.

 

Flash Fire pokes such as Rapidash, Flareon or Ninetales are gimmicks. Yeah, they are gimmicks. Specially defensive Flareon was decent in the old NU meta where we did not have a lot of STAB Surfs, but in a tier so heavily dominated by pokes like Tentacruel or Slowking, it has no place. Generally, fire types do not have much place in there, considering the fact that Quag, Slowking and Tenta and Altaria all have a strong coverage move for them, making their life in the tier rather difficult.

But not Typhlosion's, because it's sheer power and ability to take out every of them combined with great speed and movepool are enough to cover 95% of the meta.

Hypno seems like an alternative to counter sunnybeamer but it won't take fire blasts nicely, loses to eruption set and even though it's a really fantastic specially defensive pokemon (who knows if not even better than Cradily due to it's wish-passing abilities) it just can't reliably switch in on Typhlosion.

 

Furthermore, Typhlosion does not need support to outright fuck an entire team. In UU, it has counters (SHAKY!) depending on it's set.

Hence I would like to apply for at least an immeadiate discussion thread about Typhlosion.

Please respond

Edited October 16, 2016 by RysPicz

[fredrichnietze]

2 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Typhlosion in UU... Calcs with Snorlax do not prove it's power in the tier.

base line for the difference in damage. just used lax cause everyone has used lax and can understand what this means.

[gbwead]

12 hours ago, RysPicz said:

Now, why Calm Slowking is a no-go?

First of all, it's sole purpose in team is to stop Typhlosion. It literally does not have any other job. It cannot outstall Manectric, Ampharos pretty much shits on it very hard, it does not stop Exeggutor either. It has much more utility in the tier as a physically defensive pokemon able to counter top tier threats like Scizor, Hitmonlee, Tentacruel, Azumarill or even Armaldo. It does not stop any other special attacker in the tier (as with calm nature, it's supposed to be a special wall) at all and is solely made as a counter for that offensive behemoth. This is not DPP/ BW to run a Calm Slowking.

Bold Slowking, thanks to its typing and good stats, is indeed a top tier physicall wall in UU. It stops Hitmonlee, Scizor and several other physical threaths very effectively. It can also switch in on Vileplume and Tentacruel, but it will lose a lot of momentum by doing so and will be forced to slack off immediately most of the time.

 

Calm Slowking has a lot of bulk on the special side and is not forced to Slack Off directly when it switches on Vileplume and Tentecruel which is sometthing to take in consideration. Furthermore, Calm Slowking is still a Slowking. It might not be as bulky on the physical side, but its typing still allows it to switch on some of Hitmonlee's and Scizor's attacks.

Spoiler

0 SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 60-72 (29.7 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 80-96 (39.6 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Overall, Calm Slowking is a very decent switch in against Vileplume, Tentacruel, Crobat (Own Tempo > Confuse Ray ^^), Ninetales (UU by usage now),  Special Choice Band Jynx, Life Ball Lapras and Typhlosion.

Spoiler

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 72-86 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- 92.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Jynx Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 86-102 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 90-108 (44.5 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Solar Beam Life Ball Typhlosion also doesn't beat Calm Slowking unless hax and hax is not to be taken into consideration when evaluating the potential of a counter. Therefore, Calm Slowking imo beats the 3 main Typhlosion sets.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by gbwead

[RysPicz]

8 hours ago, gbwead said:

Bold Slowking, thanks to its typing and good stats, is indeed a top tier physicall wall in UU. It stops Hitmonlee, Scizor and several other physical threaths very effectively. It can also switch in on Vileplume and Tentacruel, but it will lose a lot of momentum by doing so and will be forced to slack off immediately most of the time.

 

Calm Slowking has a lot of bulk on the special side and is not forced to Slack Off directly when it switches on Vileplume and Tentecruel which is sometthing to take in consideration. Furthermore, Calm Slowking is still a Slowking. It might not be as bulky on the physical side, but its typing still allows it to switch on some of Hitmonlee's and Scizor's attacks.

  Reveal hidden contents

0 SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 60-72 (29.7 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 80-96 (39.6 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Overall, Calm Slowking is a very decent switch in against Vileplume, Tentacruel, Crobat (Own Tempo > Confuse Ray ^^), Ninetales (UU by usage now),  Special Choice Band Jynx, Life Ball Lapras and Typhlosion.

  Reveal hidden contents

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 72-86 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- 92.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Jynx Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 86-102 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Lapras Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 90-108 (44.5 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Solar Beam Life Ball Typhlosion also doesn't beat Calm Slowking unless hax and hax is not to be taken into consideration when evaluating the potential of a counter. Therefore, Calm Slowking imo beats the 3 main Typhlosion sets.

Calm Slowking does not stop Hitmonlee; it dies to 2x thief or 2x earthquake.

Calm Slowking does not stop Azumarill at all. Even life orb one kills it with DEdge.

Calm Slowking gets 2shoted by CB Scizor's DEdge.

 

About Calm Slowking taking on Plume/ Tenta/ Crobat/ Tales/ Jynx/ Lapras.

 

Bold Slowking also takes Plume, Tenta, Crobat and Tales. And I think Lapras too, Jynx only if it uses predicted Shadow Ball/ Signal Beam. Slowking is the most common switch-in for Tenta nowdays anyway (apart from Cradily).

The pokes I mentioned when analyzing Calm Slowking are top tier threats in UU (maybe apart from Ampharos), the ones you mentioned are on the verge of being NU or not higher than 12% usage and even after that, they are still stopped by a regular Bold Slowking which also offers much more utility in stopping 3 other threats I mentioned (2 of them being absolutely top tier)... Leaving only one fact to mention.

Calm Slowking is bad. It's for Typhlosion and Typhlosion only.

I know this is an over-centralization argument but Calm Slowking is just plain tranz.

[fredrichnietze]

14 hours ago, gbwead said:

Solar Beam Life Ball Typhlosion also doesn't beat Calm Slowking unless hax and hax is not to be taken into consideration when evaluating the potential of a counter. Therefore, Calm Slowking imo beats the 3 main Typhlosion sets.

did you not read my post?

[Spaintakula]

Run magcargo for every typh not running eq or like hp water in sun, problem solved

[OrangeManiac]

I have a bit of a problem with the current UU tier. I cannot create an offensive teambuild that seems even in some way effective. Every move I will make that makes my team better in this metagame leads it to more and more defensive. I want to ask that tier council would discuss whether some actions are needed to be done so offensive play would become viable in UU.

[BurntZebra]

57 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

I have a bit of a problem with the current UU tier. I cannot create an offensive teambuild that seems even in some way effective. Every move I will make that makes my team better in this metagame leads it to more and more defensive. I want to ask that tier council would discuss whether some actions are needed to be done so offensive play would become viable in UU.

What about offensive miltank or mixed flareon w/ hp ice/grass? Or rain dance omastar to punish typhlosion spamming fire moves? Or dragon dance altaria for typhlosions with hp grass? Or Tentacruels for non eq typhlosions? Or lanturn as a more offensive check to manectric/typhlosion? Besides all that, offense also limits typhlosions switchins even more than defensive teams (typhlosion really doesn't come in cleanly vs that much stuff, especially if its trying to stay at full hp for maximum eruption power). And offense can obviously afford to run something like slowking as it has great role compression as an answer to hitmonlee/scizor/tentacruel/typhlosion (physically defensive slowking can tank 2 hidden powers from typhlosion still, so it's not like max sp def calm slowking is necessary by any means). 

[pachima]

The prob of UU in my opinion is:

Any mon made to be slightly more offensive than usual is getting a ban (Meanwhile, they brought typhlo back. KEK)

Still, With this so wallish style of UU, lure offensive mons might get you a upper hand if played correctly.

[NikhilR]

7 minutes ago, BurntZebra said:

What about offensive miltank or mixed flareon w/ hp ice/grass? Or rain dance omastar to punish typhlosion spamming fire moves? Or dragon dance altaria for typhlosions with hp grass? Or Tentacruels for non eq typhlosions? Or lanturn as a more offensive check to manectric/typhlosion? Besides all that, offense also limits typhlosions switchins even more than defensive teams (typhlosion really doesn't come in cleanly vs that much stuff, especially if its trying to stay at full hp for maximum eruption power). And offense can obviously afford to run something like slowking as it has great role compression as an answer to hitmonlee/scizor/tentacruel/typhlosion (physically defensive slowking can tank 2 hidden powers from typhlosion still, so it's not like max sp def calm slowking is necessary by any means). 

The problem with running slowking along with offense is that you give up a lot of momentum when you bring it out, especially after you have pressured the opponent's defensive pokemon. Forcing slowking to switch in allows the opponent to easily heal up their walls which had already taken damage. I don't disagree with the other part because the key to running good offense is being able to maintain a solid defensive core and simultaneously applying pressure. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by NikhilR

[BurntZebra]

Just now, NikhilR said:

The problem with running slowking along with offense is that you give up a lot of momentum when you bring it out, after you have pressured the opponent's defensive pokemon. Forcing slowking to switch in allows the opponent to easily heal up their walls which had already taken damage. I don't disagree with the other part because the key to running good offense is being able to maintain a solid defensive core and simultaneously applying pressure. 

Slowking doesn't need to be a loss of momentum. It has plenty of moves to scare potential switch ins. It could run thunder wave for any pokemon that isn't immune to it. It could run trick to cripple a wall (although it will need to trick away its item before it should switch in vs typhlosion). It could run calm mind which I've seen work quite well now that people run special walls that aren't kangaskhan which always ran toxic before. It could run focus punch for forcing cradily/clefable to recover as soon as they come in. And besides all that, it has a pretty nice special move pool which can scare out altaria/scizor/tentacruel/even vileplume. Obviously it won't be able to do all of these things in one moveset, but offensive teams should be able to take advantage of most walls, and let's say you build an offensive team to wear down cradily and altaria so exeggutor can sweep (just an example). So you would want to run slack off+focus punch (for preventing cradily from healing up)+psychic (nice neutral damage vs altaria)+whatever move slowking needs on your team like surf or flamethrower. 

[OrangeManiac]

23 minutes ago, BurntZebra said:

What about offensive miltank or mixed flareon w/ hp ice/grass? Or rain dance omastar to punish typhlosion spamming fire moves? Or dragon dance altaria for typhlosions with hp grass? Or Tentacruels for non eq typhlosions? Or lanturn as a more offensive check to manectric/typhlosion? Besides all that, offense also limits typhlosions switchins even more than defensive teams (typhlosion really doesn't come in cleanly vs that much stuff, especially if its trying to stay at full hp for maximum eruption power). And offense can obviously afford to run something like slowking as it has great role compression as an answer to hitmonlee/scizor/tentacruel/typhlosion (physically defensive slowking can tank 2 hidden powers from typhlosion still, so it's not like max sp def calm slowking is necessary by any means). 

I'm not entirely talking about "the effect Typhlosion causes on the metagame", while it does have a massive impact to it because of the fact Typhlosion destroys other sweepers and requires walls to counter it. The offensive Pokemon you mentioned are really shaky anyways. Offensive Miltank is crap, I was one of the only ones to actually experience that first hand. Flareon has no legitimate spot in UU, in addition one kek EQ destroys it out cold. And I'm honestly gonna just assume every Typ had EQ because no one wants to get walled by Tenta. DD Altaria is very questionable for the fact how Cradily, Armaldo and Omastar can stop it out cold. And what comes to that "well Slowking doesn't hurt to have in an offensive team", are you nominating me a single (viable) Pokemon to counter a threat? Isn't about trillion times more centralizing Kangaskhan was and ever will be?

 

What comes to this, Typhlosion needs to go first. But in general I feel like Zangoose and Donphan seem to be the only Pokemon that can try to start breaking wall cores but the vast majority of the offensive Pokemon have that Pokemon or two that can counter them predicted or not rendering them ineffective. (Armaldo is fairly okay too)

Edited October 17, 2016 by OrangeManiac

[BurntZebra]

2 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

I'm not entirely talking about "the effect Typhlosion causes on the metagame", while it does have a massive impact to it because of the fact Typhlosion destroys other sweepers and requires walls to counter it. The offensive Pokemon you mentioned are really shaky anyways. Offensive Miltank is crap, I was one of the only ones to actually experience that first hand. Flareon has no legitimate spot in UU, in addition one kek EQ destroys it out cold. And I'm honestly gonna just assume every Typ had EQ because no one wants to get walled by Tenta. DD Altaria is very questionable for the fact how Cradily, Armaldo and Omastar can stop it out cold. And what comes to that "well Slowking doesn't hurt to have in an offensive team", are you seriously nominating me a single Pokemon to counter a threat? Isn't about trillion times more centralizing Kangaskhan was and ever will be?

 

What comes to this, Typhlosion needs to go first. But in general I feel like Zangoose is one the only wallbreakers that isn't hard out walled by a common threat. Pretty much all the main sweepers and wallbreakers have their banes that stop them out cold. Zangoose and Donphan seem to be the only Pokemon that can try to start breaking wall cores but the vast majority of the offensive Pokemon have that Pokemon or two that can counter them predicted or not rendering them ineffective.

Offensive miltank is surprising decent, considering it has a fairly wide movepool and can pull off a life orb attacker set pretty well, being able to hit scizor/omastar/everything else with fire punch, earthquake, and stab normal respectively. It's speed tier allows it to speed tie typhlosion and tentacruel and outspeed threats like jynx, haunter, and hitmonlee. Flareon is quite viable actually, especially if it's playing people who aren't running slowking, as superpower+hp ice+fire move hits everything pretty hard. It has pretty nice special bulk which allows it to 1v1 manectric/haunter/jynx and can even tank a tentacruel surf. It's speed isn't amazing, but it's fast enough to outspeed stuff like crawdaunt/scizor and obviously all the walls slower than those two pokemon. I'll admit an earthquake can be bad news for flareon, but thankfully, the mixed typhlosion set is somewhat mediocre in comparison to the other two sets. Mixed typhlosion cannot hit both altaria and slowking (or water pokemon in general) with a super effective hidden power, and at best, will only 3hko a physically defensive slowking. Mixed can't effectively run eruption either as life orb makes that somewhat counterproductive after it attacks once. Mixed can't be scarf either, so once it reveals it's life orb, then you can keep your manectric/swellow/scarf pokemon in safely, not having to worry about being outsped. Altaria is somewhat matchup dependent, not everyone runs omastar/armaldo now as omastar is pretty much deadweight vs the 35% of people who run tentacruel and armaldo has less of a niche now that it doesn't get a free switch vs kangaskhan anymore. Cradily can be 2hko'ed by offensive altaria at +1 so it's not as much of a concern.

 

I'm not suggesting you have to run slowking on your team. I just listed a whole plethora of offensive pokemon that can definitely handle different typhlosion variants. In case you don't want to run any of those, then you can just run slowking or lanturn as a blanket check to pretty much all of the typhlosion sets. Offense teams by nature have less switch ins to offensive pokemon than defensive teams do, as they focus on sweeping instead of walling. I wouldn't run 6 sweepers in OU and then complain that the team doesn't have any clean switchins to slaking, as offensive teams won't be running skarmory/dusclops like a more defensive team. 

[fredrichnietze]

8 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

The problem with running slowking along with offense is that you give up a lot of momentum when you bring it out, especially after you have pressured the opponent's defensive pokemon. Forcing slowking to switch in allows the opponent to easily heal up their walls which had already taken damage. I don't disagree with the other part because the key to running good offense is being able to maintain a solid defensive core and simultaneously applying pressure. 

count the # of times he says typhlosion 

[NikhilR]

1 hour ago, BurntZebra said:

Slowking doesn't need to be a loss of momentum. It has plenty of moves to scare potential switch ins. It could run thunder wave for any pokemon that isn't immune to it. It could run trick to cripple a wall (although it will need to trick away its item before it should switch in vs typhlosion). It could run calm mind which I've seen work quite well now that people run special walls that aren't kangaskhan which always ran toxic before. It could run focus punch for forcing cradily/clefable to recover as soon as they come in. And besides all that, it has a pretty nice special move pool which can scare out altaria/scizor/tentacruel/even vileplume. Obviously it won't be able to do all of these things in one moveset, but offensive teams should be able to take advantage of most walls, and let's say you build an offensive team to wear down cradily and altaria so exeggutor can sweep (just an example). So you would want to run slack off+focus punch (for preventing cradily from healing up)+psychic (nice neutral damage vs altaria)+whatever move slowking needs on your team like surf or flamethrower. 

When Slowking switches into an attack, it is most likely going to recover which gives the other wall a free switch in and most of them are faster than Slowking. Trick is easily scoutable when there's no leftovers recovery but like you said, twave is probably one of the best ways by which it can prevent that loss of momentum. I think CM set still fails to deal with toxic special walls, but focus punch Slowking definitely has its merit. I don't think Slowking ever scares out Altaria unless Ice Beam and without Flamethrower, it doesn't scare off Careful Scizor. But yea, best to equip Slowking with moves that scare off the walls that you'd like to sweep with. 

[RysPicz]

1 minute ago, NikhilR said:

But yea, best to equip Slowking with moves that scare off the walls that you'd like to sweep with. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

[NikhilR]

Just now, RysPicz said:

  Hide contents

  Hide contents

 

 

LF trick room :)

[fredrichnietze]

1 minute ago, RysPicz said:

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, KingBowser said:

Ways to never earn respect......bellydrum 

 

he cant do that 4f cause bowser will kick him

1 minute ago, NikhilR said:

LF trick room :)

doubles would love this

[LifeStyle]

Keep Kanga in OU, ban Typhlosion