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[Banned to BL2] Cradily

OrangeManiac

By OrangeManiac
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OrangeManiac

OrangeManiac

Posted
Posted (edited)

e3c8f133918667c9071303d8bba64e5f.png

Cradily has always been a threat everyone had feared, yet usage statistics haven't reflected this by a lot. One could argue that this is because Cradily is a pain in the ass to breed and this probably is the main reason why people haven't been using it, if you ask me. Especially having access to two good physical STAB moves with Bullet Seed becoming 25 base power (giving it 50 to 125 power depending on RNG) you can tell Cradily really is now a force to reckon with.

Due to Curse + Recover, nice defensive typing and base stats that are insane in NU it's safe to say one of the only reliable ways to take down a Cradily is the move Toxic. Steel-types offense is generally bad, only something like CB Aggron can really hurt Cradily. Ice-types such as Lapras or Glalie could do some special damage to the special side (but 252/252+ Careful will eat those up and hit back with +1 Rock Slide). Bug-types are pretty much NEVER used in the NU tier. Fighting-types are also strong on Cradily but the most used Fighting-type is offensively not that strong which is Hitmontop. Meanwhile Hitmonchan and Primeape aren't in favor by being used by the community.

It's also notable that multiple highly viable Pokemon are used as Clerics in the NU tier, such as Lapras or Ampharos. This means that even if Cradily gets Toxiced, it's a one trip to the nurse to Heal Bell away the Toxic and back in to Curse and Recover. Cradily can set up on so many Pokemon it's insane.

What's notable offensively is that Grass-Rock offensive combo is unbelievably good. The offensive types basically support each other giving them a super effective move of 7 types out of 17 while it's immune by only Steel. Cradily also has access to Earthquake, which means your whatever Aggrons aren't still even complete hard counters.

Due to being so hard to break and having such amazing offensive output, the NU Council wants to discuss if Cradily has become an offensive Uber especially due to addition of Bullet Seed becoming 25 base power and dealing insane damage after Curses. It's just so good on paper so despite being not used that much (probably due to being so hard to breed), if it's found to be Offensively Uber then it's probably no point of waiting to everyone breed them one if everyone knows it's OP as heck.

Some calculations in the spoiler. These calculations are mainly to show how easily can the NU metagame stop the Cradily from setting up Curses and sweeping. CB Chan and CB Aggron new meta?
[spoiler]

252 SpA Glalie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily: 84-98 (43.5 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

+1 0 Atk Cradily Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Glalie: 128-152 (82 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

252+ SpA Lapras Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cradily: 96-114 (49.7 - 59%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

+1 4 Atk Cradily Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lapras: 132-156 (55.6 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Hitmonchan Sky Uppercut vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 212-252 (109.8 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

+1 0 Atk Cradily Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 66-81 (52.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

+1 0 Atk Cradily Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Blastoise: 108-132 (58 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 206-244 (106.7 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cradily: 258-306 (133.6 - 158.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

0 Atk Cradily Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 80-96 (45.1 - 54.2%) -- 28.5% chance to 2HKO

[/spoiler]

By the words of Bluejim, couldn't have said this much better:

6c9e399138f83eb71a12c449f948c627.png

Wise words, Jim.

Anyways, discuss.


Edit: Fair point by Zebra about Encore Walrein, I forgot completely that move. Encore can be a nice move to switch in and lock Cradily to its Curse. Is it viable enough move, though can be a good question. In addition there's Taunt but I think the most viable Taunt users are prolly Banette or Sableye which just aren't that viable.

Edited by OrangeManiac
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OrangeManiac

OrangeManiac

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Hitmonchan doesn't have access to superpower unfortunately. It can run high jump kick or brick break though. Also encore walrein seems like a pretty cool answer to cradily, being able to encore cradily into curse/eq/recover, 2hko'ing cradily with ice beam, and only taking about 35% from rock slide or a 3 hit bullet seed. 


Yeah Jim just ninjad me in game about that, replaced it with Sky Uppercut calculation. Yeah, Encore Walrein seems pretty good.

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Rache

Rache

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Mirror Coat

Barrier/Curse

Recover/Rest

Bullet Seed/Giga Drain/Rock Slide/Toxic/Earthquake

 

A set like this has the potential to be devastating, almost guaranteeing a kill and almost certainly being a nuisance to take down. If it gets a defense boost (especially if Barrier is chosen over Curse), the only reasonable ways to take it down are to hit it from the special side or use Toxic/Encore. If a player tries to hit it with a special move, they could be down a Pokemon in an instant due to Mirror Coat. This leaves only Toxic and Encore, neither of which are difficult to remove.

 

The choice between Curse and Barrier depends on whether the player cares to have any offensive pressure or not. Barrier stops Swords Dancing to simply overpower it from being an option, while Curse can stop it from being set up on at all by making it more of a threat itself. Recover would be the standard and safest healing option, but Rest can prevent Toxic from being a problem on a team that isn't running a cleric. The last slot could be pretty much any of the listed moves (or something I haven't thought of).

 

An Amnesia/Barrier/Rest set could prove to be borderline unstoppable too (unless Encore).

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Kizhaz

Kizhaz

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Im surprised it took this long for this thread. I was calling Cradily S rank on the pts before NU was created. I feel it is just way too bulky to be left in the tier. STAB ice doesnt even ohko, stab bug is a 3hko. Clamperl was a pokemon I used to stop cradily's but with viable grass stab that isnt even an option.

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OrangeManiac

OrangeManiac

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Im surprised it took this long for this thread. I was calling Cradily S rank on the pts before NU was created. I feel it is just way too bulky to be left in the tier. STAB ice doesnt even ohko, stab bug is a 3hko. Clamperl was a pokemon I used to stop cradily's but with viable grass stab that isnt even an option.


Well the thing is generally we don't consider stuff Ubers that is strong on paper but no one uses. But I just feel like Cradily is something that can make an exception to this because it's so. damn. annoyingly. good.

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Kizhaz

Kizhaz

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Well the thing is generally we don't consider stuff Ubers that is strong on paper but no one uses. But I just feel like Cradily is something that can make an exception to this because it's so. damn. annoyingly. good.

 

I've used it since that pts. It got me a 2nd place in the 1st? NU official. Last time I got to a final was like july 2013, in an oceanic of all things. It won me like 3 matches prior to that final alone ending with like 7hp and toxiced, taking down half of my opponents team

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KaynineXL

KaynineXL

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I've used it since that pts. It got me a 2nd place in the 1st? NU official. Last time I got to a final was like july 2013, in an oceanic of all things. It won me like 3 matches prior to that final alone ending with like 7hp and toxiced, taking down half of my opponents team

The thing is when you used it in the finals(and I whooped yo ass, hehe love you) we had Absol to fuck up Cradily. Without Absol there really isn't that many good physical attackers to get rid of it. Not to mention the added bullet seed for an extra duel stab.

 

Before bullet seed & Absol removal I think Cradily was really good. I agree it wasn't used much because it's annoying to breed. I just think its tipped the scales now with these extra benefits.

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Leorodo

Leorodo

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Curse + suction cups ability is pretty deadly with phasers with roar or whirlind such as blastoise or grumping being useless. With the recent update you cannot put cradily to sleep to try and gain momentum from it. I feel cradily was manageable before the update as sub punchers were pretty good at pressuring it but with bullet seed it can stop them from focus punching now by breaking the sub and losing focus.

 

Encore walrein does sound good but there's nothing stopping cradily cursing once and bullet seeding or rock sliding walrein on the switch - just seems way too risky

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LionKIng

LionKIng

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The way I see it, cradily has such a wide and annoying different move pool, it can either go the cursing route with a couple variations, per exemple rest over recover or the diffrent attacking moves itll use, usually rock slide bullet seed or earthquake. It can also go the stalling route using toxic on everything while mirror coating all the special attacks sent his way. Or it can just plain stall you using barrier + mirror coat and giga drain or something like that, wich is really annoying. The only thing I can see that counters cradilly pretty much everytime is encore users aswell as haze users, but vs the rest of the tier they are a liability wich you are scared to bring because nothing else really has the time to set up on you without you being able to do anything to it. Also encore users can be taken out by a early attack move wich you predicted  being a curse or something, leaving your encore user vulnerable because it just took 3 stab bullet seeds in the face. IMO cradilly is pure cancer for this tier, its pretty much like curselax was in OU, it can set up on pretty much anything and hit everything pretty hard with 2 stabs and/or a powerfull EQ. But besides that it can also stall the living shitt out of you because lets face it, fighting moves in NU are lame, almost no stab super power in the tier worth mentionning , and stab ice moves are pretty rare aswell. Everytime I play NU, theres an annoying cradilly that pops out of nowhere and sets up on pretty much any of my pokes wich is really annoying, and it usually takes out at least 1 of my pokes and damages others, thats if it didnt take out more then 3 of my pokes(already hapenned before). This pokemons takes zero to no skills to use and wreck a big portion of the meta. 

Edited by LionKIng
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DoubleJ

DoubleJ

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The way I see it, cradily has such a wide and annoying different move pool, it can either go the cursing route with a couple variations, per exemple rest over recover or the diffrent attacking moves itll use, usually rock slide bullet seed or earthquake. It can also go the stalling route using toxic on everything while mirror coating all the special attacks sent his way. Or it can just plain stall you using barrier + mirror coat and giga drain or something like that, wich is really annoying. The only thing I can see that counters cradilly pretty much everytime is encore users aswell as haze users, but vs the rest of the tier they are a liability wich you are scared to bring because nothing else really has the time to set up on you without you being able to do anything to it. Also encore users can be taken out by a early attack move wich you predicted  being a curse or something, leaving your encore user vulnerable because it just took 3 stab bullet seeds in the face. IMO cradilly is pure cancer for this tier, its pretty much like curselax was in OU, it can set up on pretty much anything and hit everything pretty hard with 2 stabs and/or a powerfull EQ. But besides that it can also stall the living shitt out of you because lets fast it, fighting moves in NU are lame, almost no stab super power in the tier worth mentionning , and stab ice moves are pretty rare aswell. Everytime I play NU, theres an annoying cradilly that pops out of nowhere and sets up on pretty much any of my pokes wich is really annoying, and it usually takes out at least 1 of my pokes and damages others, thats if it didnt take out more then 3 of my pokes(already hapenned before). This pokemons takes zero to no skills to use and wreck a big portion of the meta. 

 

Totally agree with this. Cradily is just ridiculously hard to kill and it packs a wallop. It can hit nearly everything for neutral damage with two STABS. 

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