specs / scarf

[KaynineXL]

Meta should be reset imo. I think these items are pretty big and change quite a lot.

 

That was my first thoughts when I read these items were coming.

[DoubleJ]

I love the support. I hope we can work together on this.

[OrangeManiac]

Nothing but a meta reset makes any sense to me. We can't be even sure the pseudo 3 are exactly better Pokemon than some of the special sweepers now. Or Scarf Metagross. Or anything of that sorts. We honestly couldn't evaluate the meta without a reset if you ask me.

 

What I'm the most worried about is... 

 

RIP WallMMO?

 

Could be. There was a goal to reach a somewhat of a balance between offense and defense and even considering the whole Ubers list was full of offensive Pokemon and offensive was play made even more viable right now so to achieve a balance the Ubers banlist might get even more filled if there were to seek that balance again. Optionally you could accept defense is not necessarily that viable anymore.

 

Let's remember specsweepers are sort of walled to oblivion by Blissey/Chansey so I guess the powercreep isn't that bad but this sure made things interesting.

Edited April 13, 2016 by OrangeManiac

[Vaeldras]

porygon is gonna have a lot of troubles now

Chansey on the other hand...

 

edit: unless snorlax gets unbanned, which could be possible

Edited April 13, 2016 by Vaeldras

[KaynineXL]

Nothing but a meta reset makes any sense to me. We can't be even sure the pseudo 3 are exactly better Pokemon than some of the special sweepers now. Or Scarf Metagross. Or anything of that sorts. We honestly couldn't evaluate the meta without a reset if you ask me.

 

What I'm the most worried about is... 

 

 

 

Could be. There was a goal to reach a somewhat of a balance between offense and defense and even considering the whole Ubers list was full of offensive Pokemon and offensive was play made even more viable right now so to achieve a balance the Ubers banlist might get even more filled if there were to seek that balance again. Then again specsweepers are walled to oblivion by Blissey/Chansey so I guess the powercreep isn't that bad but this sure made things interesting.

I'm thinking, maybe it could go so offensive it could turn out to be like the old NU at the start of Hoenn when it was 'sac to kill' type games.

 

I guess the offense needs to overthrow the walls for that to happen.

 

Theories are always fun :>

 

edit: I loved the chaotic offensive meta in NU for the record.

Edited April 13, 2016 by KaynineXL

[KingBowser]

Team preview would be nice, the amount of trapping is going to be ridic.

[OrangeManiac]

Team preview would be nice, the amount of trapping is going to be ridic.

 

Dugtrio literally the most important Pokemon of the metagame.

 

 

I'm thinking, maybe it could go so offensive it could turn out to be like the old NU at the start of Hoenn when it was 'sac to kill' type games.

 

I guess the offense needs to overthrow the walls for that to happen.

 

Theories are always fun :>

 

edit: I loved the chaotic offensive meta in NU for the record.

 

I sense OU becoming a offensive powercreep tier just to not get a too much of a filled banlist but defense could become alright in UU and NU, which sounds sort of fine I guess.

[DoctorPBC]

You gotta do a reset, while I think its a safe bet as any to assume at least Mence and probably dnite will be finding themselves in Ubers again the new items throw up so many new possibilities itd be unfair to assume such.

 

T-tar I see being a safe bet to stay in OU tbh, fighting pokemon such as medicham and machamp become instantly more viable with a choice scarf

[OldKeith]

I feel this lack of communication between development and tiering problematic. Ok, you just added NU and UU to matchmaking, but you introduced some new items too so what happens now? Are we gonna remove nu/uu again? Are we gonna randomly get life orb or random gen 4 moves eventually, when we least expect? Who is gonna detemine which usage stats are the right ones? So many questions. :/

[DoubleJ]

I feel this lack of communication between development and tiering problematic. Ok, you just added NU and UU to matchmaking, but you introduced some new items too so what happens now? Are we gonna remove nu/uu again? Are we gonna randomly get life orb or random gen 4 moves eventually, when we least expect? Who is gonna detemine which usage stats are the right ones? So many questions. :/

 

If we reset, we do sadly lose uu and nu for a few months again, but moving forward there definitely needs to be communication between the development team and the leaders of the competitive scene to ensure we don't make all this progress and simply have to restart again a few months later. 

 

Instability is bad. 

[bigbangattack]

If we reset, we do sadly lose uu and nu for a few months again, but moving forward there definitely needs to be communication between the development team and the leaders of the competitive scene to ensure we don't make all this progress and simply have to restart again a few months later.

Instability is bad.

We need a reset im even wondering if tyranitar and salamence are possible....but choice specs should allow lax to be able to come back in if nothing else
Gengar too since sub set would be significantly nerfed Edited April 13, 2016 by bigbangattack

[OldKeith]

If we reset, we do sadly lose uu and nu for a few months again, but moving forward there definitely needs to be communication between the development team and the leaders of the competitive scene to ensure we don't make all this progress and simply have to restart again a few months later. 

 

Instability is bad. 

 

If matchmaking usage stats do work, I think the UU and NU tiers can be established much quicker this time. 

[DoubleJ]

If matchmaking usage stats do work, I think the UU and NU tiers can be established much quicker this time. 

 

That's a really, really good point. 

 

 

EDIT: Let us pray. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by DoubleJ

[DoctorPBC]

I feel like a few progression bans/unbans could be made in situations like this to not destroy whole tiers, if I was in your guys boots this is what I would suggest

 

 

as it stands many of the UUs and NUs wont be making huge jumps up or down in usage or power, a few counteractive bans like Houndoom to OU and such should be made to make sure they remain as tiers... then start by adding all the ubers back to OU and making progression bans as things becoming clearly OP.

 

1: keep uu and nu

2: unban all the ubers

3: fix the inevitable clusterfuck in OU by banning certain mons back to ubers

4: make progression bans for UU to OU

5: make progression bans for NU to UU

6: assess tiers to see what is healthy/unhealthy

7: do tier council shit

[OrangeManiac]

If matchmaking usage stats do work, I think the UU and NU tiers can be established much quicker this time. 

 

Something like month is probably enough / tier. However, the problem is that establishing the Ubers, BLs will take their own time and arguments.

 

Makes me really wonder if it's worth it if gamechanging features can come with this frequency. I mean, sure give us gen4. I don't mind.

[DrCraig]

Hur dur let's implement all tiers matchmaking

Hur dur let's implement new meta changing items and make the NU and UU matchmaking we just implemented useless

Hur dur TC will be stoked to redo a year of work on our unfinished dex

Hur dur fun

 

Matchmaking usage is so hype though

[BurntZebra]

You gotta do a reset, while I think its a safe bet as any to assume at least Mence and probably dnite will be finding themselves in Ubers again the new items throw up so many new possibilities itd be unfair to assume such.

 

T-tar I see being a safe bet to stay in OU tbh, fighting pokemon such as medicham and machamp become instantly more viable with a choice scarf

Well medicham might be more viable vs offense now, but I'm not entirely convinced people will just stop running arcanine/weezing all of a sudden. Machamp is still outsped by stuff like starmie/espeon/alakazam and obviously has the power issue vs walls/even offensive pokemon. I just feel like a lot of pokemon are better just setting up, like machamp can take out a lot of its potential counters by just setting up a bulk up or two. 

[OrangeManiac]

I feel like a few progression bans/unbans could be made in situations like this to not destroy whole tiers, if I was in your guys boots this is what I would suggest

 

 

as it stands many of the UUs and NUs wont be making huge jumps up or down in usage or power, a few counteractive bans like Houndoom to OU and such should be made to make sure they remain as tiers... then start by adding all the ubers back to OU and making progression bans as things becoming clearly OP.

 

1: keep uu and nu

2: unban all the ubers

3: fix the inevitable clusterfuck in OU by banning certain mons back to ubers

4: make progression bans for UU to OU

5: make progression bans for NU to UU

6: assess tiers to see what is healthy/unhealthy

7: do tier council shit

 

Unbanning all the Ubers kinda makes keeping UU and NU pointless. The usage we would get with 8 more OUs would just remake the whole usage board and make a lot of Pokemon UU by usage.

[DoubleJ]

Yea, I think the move was to avoid "power tiering" and work within the usage system, which has been somewhat successful thus far. If we reset, we lose the lower tiers for a little while. 

[Tritios]

Tiering will go faster because we can get usage alot faster. but comps needs to be bred and alot of comps gotta be re-eved. so many new pokes are suddenly viable and gamechanging, alot of pokes that alot of people dont have... our meta still take alot of time to evolve and stabalize

 

but its not like we can avoid a clusterfuck at this point. 

[Erayne]

IMO this will direct the meta to bulky attackers like metagross, that can take a hit from really fast pokemon and still be able too sweep well enough. But that's just my opinion, anything could happen right now xD

[DoctorPBC]

Ok, TC should proceed with the clusterfuck as soon as possible... lets try to find some semblance of balance before the huge 128 man official in a couple weeks.

 

 

 

Thank god for doubles being a thing right now

[ZaoLi]

Just implement the legendary birds and dogs for a better uber tier, AND where is the doubles games in PVP ???

[Rigamorty]

Just implement the legendary birds and dogs for a better uber tier, AND where is the doubles games in PVP ???

this talk is about unbanning übers and here you are saying "hurr make übers great again"

I like how my iPod adds the ü to über

[XPLOZ]

I have the feeling that the OU was very decent (more than ever ?) and that it's now fucked up for a while x)

 

The diversity of special walls was real : we had lot's of chanseys but also those P2s/Gardevoirs/Ludicolos, even stuff like Jolt support...

While chansey was a beast as a special wall, players were discovering more and more flaws, so alternatives were sometimes needed.

 

Now we're gonna enjoy a full bliss meta, and new players who were crying at chansey will now see what is an unbreakable special wall :-) ENJOY BRAH

Edited April 13, 2016 by XPLOZ