Torinnnnn Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 ty sweet bb stop doing uu, problem solved king has spoken OrangeManiac, DoubleJ and Liberalisme 3 Link to comment
BlackJovi Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 gb gonna be like 'nah i run calm slowking clefable and altaria, typhlosion is not a problem' Draekyn, Liberalisme and DoubleJ 3 Link to comment
Rigamorty Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 18 minutes ago, TheChampionMike said: Arcanine, Dusclops, Weezing, Gyarados do fairly well vs it. I know, but did you read what Toast said that I was actually referring to? Link to comment
Mike Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Just now, Rigamorty said: I know, but did you read what Toast said that I was actually referring to? Ah yeah, I guess you´re right. Link to comment
pachima Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Meanwhile, gb won. Obviously Typhlo not that broken. gbwead and jasonoon95 2 Link to comment
SweeTforU Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 gb obviously just tryna make the tier fit him smh jk congrats nab ban tenta tho xXBlu3BreathXx, gbwead and YettoDie 3 Link to comment
Senile Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 6 hours ago, gbwead said: @Senile I am not saying that Typhlosion is super shitty without Eruption. However, when I see a Life Ball Typhlosion with high health, I know that a standard wall like Clefable/Cradily has actually a shot at switching on Typhlosion unlike spec Eruption. If these walls have taken no prior dmg, they should be able to stop Typhlosion. As for Blaze Fire Blast, I agree that it is a bigger threat than Spec Eruption, but Typhlosion is not going to get in Blaze range that easily and not at 0 cost. A Typhlosion in Blaze range could easily end up in an impossible situation if it is forced to switch out when spikes are on the field. This is acctually untrue: +1 252 SpA Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Miltank: 76-91 (37.6 - 45%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after 2 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery Perhaps, you mean Fire Blast Blaze Life Ball instead of Eruption. That Typhlosion is +Speed, not +Sp.Attack: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Miltank: 84-100 (41.5 - 49.5%) -- 26.2% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery Although honestly this point wasn't really a big deal to begin with. 6 hours ago, gbwead said: Prior dmg is a big problem for more than just Typhlosion's checks. Most of Crawdaunt counters are at risk of dying if they have taken prior dmg. The same argument applies for Choice Spec Manectric. I mean, Crawdaunt's counters can die if they've taken prior damage, but Crawdaunt is also slow as fuck and made of glass. Yeah, he hits hard, but he's not really comparable to Typhlosion. Manectric is probably a better comparison, but I can't really comment on it much honestly. 6 hours ago, gbwead said: The fact that Typhlosion has very few switch in opportunities - even for the Fire Blast set - is a big issue imo. Nidoking has been UU for quite some time and its wallbreaking potential is super threathening. However, Nidoking has no switch in. Nothing and that limits it tremendously. I think the same logic can somewhat apply to Typhlosion as well. The main argument for Rhydon not fitting Offensive Uber characteristics was that Rhydon had no switch ins. However, Rhydon had no viable counters unlike Typhlosion that have 2 big counters in Calm Slowking and Careful Miltank, as well as several checks like Lanturn. I'm not sure I'd say it has very few on a Fire Blast set, just that it has few. It's bulk is 78/78/85, for comparison's sake, something like Clefable has 95/73/90. It's definitely not super fragile, it just doesn't particularly want be taking Thunder Waves or too much damage, much less Super Effective hits like EQ or Rock Slide. I also feel like there's more to Nidoking than just having no switch ins, you also have to account for the fact that for it to actually a wallbreak, it does need to pick the correct move, and oftentimes the "Correct Move" is only 1 out of 4 options, and it can be a bit of a crapshot. Typhlosion can mostly get by with "Spam Fire STAB", because even the "correct" switchins for that, like Slowking and Miltank, get hit stupidly hard by it anyway. The fact is, Typhlosion isn't just strong, it's really easy to use. Nidoking is played like a strong wallbreaker in the vein of Medicham, where you outplay your opponent and eat away their defensive core, whereas Typhlosion is played like a sweeper that just so happens to break walls. 6 hours ago, gbwead said: I quite disagree with that statement. Historically, of all the BL pokemons that we had, there is a fairly good amount that have 0 viable UU counter: Medicham, Ursaring, Machamp, Tauros, Slaking, Marowak, Rhydon and even to some lesser degree Hariyama/Dodrio/Feraligatr have/had 0 UU counter. The list of BL pokemons that fit offensive uber characteristics despite having some counters in UU is quite shorter: Linoone, Sceptile, Charizard, maybe others that I have forgotten. 6 hours ago, gbwead said: Calm Slowking is not useless against the rest of the UU tier and can actually take decent dmg before having to Slack Off: +1 252 SpA Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 72-86 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- 92.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Against Spec Typhlosion HP Grass, Calm Slowking can take up to 21% before using Slack Off. 252 SpA Life Orb Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 62-74 (30.6 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery Against Life Ball Typhlosion HP Grass, Calm Slowking can take up to 33% before using Slack Off. I mean, it might not be useless against the rest of the tier, but it doesn't really matter. If your opponent has a Typhlosion, the reason you can't use it against the rest of the tier isn't because it's not viable against them, it's because your Slowking will be too weak to come in on Typhlosion later. It's a pretty big distinction. Also, you're still using +speed Typhlosion: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 78-94 (38.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Life Orb Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 68-82 (33.6 - 40.5%) -- 47.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Also, idk, but saying Slowking can take 21% before having to use Slack Off sounds kind of ridiculous to me. Like, that's an incredibly insignificant amount of damage, if you really think about it. That's slightly more than 2 layers of spikes, and less than 3. At that point, yeah, you are kind of forced to keep Slowking handy for only Typhlosion if you can help it. 6 hours ago, gbwead said: I don't have complete control on which tiering policies will be respected and which will not. As a council member, the only thing I can do is try to update the outdated policies and respect all active policies. There is no rule against quick banning Typhlosion. However, it is incredibly stupid to push for an unhealthy quick ban since the pokemon has not been properly tested yet. Pushing for an offense uber quick ban is fine tho. I mean, you're right, you don't, but I'm not blaming you or the tier council members for not following policies. I'm also not sure people are necessarily saying there should be an unhealthy quickban, but rather an offensive uber quickban. I mean, people are talking about the unhealthy affects it has on the metagame, but that's solely caused by it's offensive abilities, it's not as if they're just going for an unhealthy ban. 6 hours ago, gbwead said: Edit: I am also surprised few people - or maybe no one - have mentionned Tpunch CB Typhlosion so far since it is to my knowledge the only set that can break Calm Slowking. I'm not sure such a set is viable tho. This reminds me: 0 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 78-92 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Life Orb Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 68-82 (33.6 - 40.5%) -- 47.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Life Orb Tpunch > Life Orb HP Grass for Slowking. Nothing changes if you're using specs though, obviously. Also, you're forgetting of the 1 Typhlosion set that beats every answer. Toxic Life Orb Typhlosion. hue Instagramlol and DoubleJ 2 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 If someone still has any doubts about Typhlosion being broken, check my match from this community combat in round 2. Link to comment
DaftCoolio Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 18 minutes ago, RysPicz said: If someone still has any doubts about Typhlosion being broken, check my match from this community combat in round 2. He had nothing for typhlosion, is it that much of a surprise one swept him? And he didn't even see that double switch turn 3 smh Link to comment
RysPicz Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said: He had nothing for typhlosion, is it that much of a surprise one swept him? And he didn't even see that double switch turn 3 smh CRADILY IS A LEGIT COUNTER IT COULD TAKE ONE ERUPTION Spoiler kek Arimanius, DaftCoolio and DoubleJ 3 Link to comment
DrButler Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 is that some kind of attempt of turning ur shitpost into something funny or have you been sarcastic all along? because i actually watched the match and i wouldnt mind if you gave me back the time i spent watching this shit. ty RysPicz 1 Link to comment
Spaintakula Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 18 minutes ago, DrButler said: is that some kind of attempt of turning ur shitpost into something funny or have you been sarcastic all along? because i actually watched the match and i wouldnt mind if you gave me back the time i spent watching this shit. ty is that some kind of an attempt to look like a smartass, or is there more reasoning to it? because I want my time back for the reply I just made. xilias, xXBlu3BreathXx, RysPicz and 3 others 6 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 22 minutes ago, DrButler said: is that some kind of attempt of turning ur shitpost into something funny or have you been sarcastic all along? because i actually watched the match and i wouldnt mind if you gave me back the time i spent watching this shit. ty I'll give you a like, now you can leave Link to comment
DrButler Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Just now, Spaintakula said: is that some kind of an attempt to look like a smartass, or is there more reasoning to it? because I want my time back for the reply I just made. ok, to explain my reasoning behind this post i gotta go back in time and if ur willing to ill take you with me. like 1 or 2 weeak ago, i dont exactly remember, there was that dude i got matched up against... it was a hard fought battle, chanseys facing each each other, laxes cursing up, forres spinning spikes away, usual ou stuff. suddenly tho, suddenly i realised...my opponent didnt have a gyara counter. so i started to dd up and i won. thats when i realised, gyara is op. we should ban it... Spoiler do you really expect a serious answer on a shitpost following a shitpost tho? Link to comment
Laz Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 1 minute ago, DrButler said: ok, to explain my reasoning behind this post i gotta go back in time and if ur willing to ill take you with me. like 1 or 2 weeak ago, i dont exactly remember, there was that dude i got matched up against... it was a hard fought battle, chanseys facing each each other, laxes cursing up, forres spinning spikes away, usual ou stuff. suddenly tho, suddenly i realised...my opponent didnt have a gyara counter. so i started to dd up and i won. thats when i realised, gyara is op. we should ban it... Hide contents do you really expect a serious answer on a shitpost following a shitpost tho? i wouldn't mind you giving me back the time i wasted reading your cool story. On topic, Typhlosion ain't broken you can easily stop it with slowking or rapidash, so ez gbwead and RysPicz 2 Link to comment
DrButler Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said: i wouldn't mind you giving me back the time i wasted reading your cool story. On topic, Typhlosion ain't broken you can easily stop it with slowking or rapidash, so ez b-but when forf stomped that random that didnt have a counter...typh is op! Spoiler you should try to appreciate art doe...tried to express the same, altough i tried to be sarcastic cause i dont like this "gonna answer shitposts in a serious manner" mentality. hope we can still be friends (please). Link to comment
Laz Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 5 minutes ago, DrButler said: Reveal hidden contents you should try to appreciate art doe...tried to express the same, altough i tried to be sarcastic cause i dont like this "gonna answer shitposts in a serious manner" mentality. hope we can still be friends (please). Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler no Spoiler ok DrButler 1 Link to comment
DrButler Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Lazaro23 said: Reveal hidden contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents Hide contents no Hide contents ok put more effort into my story dude, at least you tried Spoiler clicked em all, we friends now? Link to comment
DrButler Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 3 minutes ago, BlackJovi said: haha die laz no u Spoiler this is a discussion thread, pl stop ur shitposting, ty Link to comment
RysPicz Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Right, I'll be more serious- just for you. Typhlosion IS broken. No doubts. How does my replay prove it's broken? Well, Cradily is a premier sdef wall right now. Sdef wall means it's designed to soak special attacks. My battle showed an example, where a dedicated spec wall failed at it's job. And actually, any other would fail as well- Hypno dies, Altaria takes HEAVY damage (although it's more often a defensive wall), Miltank barely lives 2 Eruptions, Clefable dies. Why I gave it as an example of Typhlosion being blatantly broken, is to show how I can just sit with it and click "eruption". Maybe he missplayed by giving me Cradily on silver plate and maybe he didn't come prepared for it (although he still didn't reveal 2 pokes). But is this really a healthy tier, where Slowking will probably climb on top of usage boards just because it has a chance to counter typhlosion (a chance- it's not even a surefire answer!)? I myself, had slowking in literally every match. Guess why? Spoiler As for the personal stuff, I'm unsure if you noticed but in every thread, even a discussion one, some posts have to be less serious and not completly on topic and there's no reason to be an ass about it. Not to mention your posts do not bring anything new to the discussion, at all, except for personal attacks which should never have place in a discussion thread. Mike, Arimanius, xilias and 1 other 4 Link to comment
LifeStyle Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 No love for Calm Walrein RysPicz 1 Link to comment
gbwead Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 19 minutes ago, RysPicz said: Sdef wall means it's designed to soak special attacks. My battle showed an example, where a dedicated spec wall failed at it's job. A lot of people complain that we don't have Focus Blast or Aura Sphere to threathen directly the big special walls like Snorlax, Kangaskhan and Clefable. Typhlosion gives flaws to Clefable and other god walls of UU. Isn't that a good thing? For once, people can't rely on "blanket" walls to wall everything; they actually have to teambuild differently. Spyfire, Suneet and pachima 3 Link to comment
DaftCoolio Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 30 minutes ago, RysPicz said: Right, I'll be more serious- just for you. Typhlosion IS broken. No doubts. How does my replay prove it's broken? Well, Cradily is a premier sdef wall right now. Sdef wall means it's designed to soak special attacks. My battle showed an example, where a dedicated spec wall failed at it's job. And actually, any other would fail as well- Hypno dies, Altaria takes HEAVY damage (although it's more often a defensive wall), Miltank barely lives 2 Eruptions, Clefable dies. Why I gave it as an example of Typhlosion being blatantly broken, is to show how I can just sit with it and click "eruption". Maybe he missplayed by giving me Cradily on silver plate and maybe he didn't come prepared for it (although he still didn't reveal 2 pokes). But is this really a healthy tier, where Slowking will probably climb on top of usage boards just because it has a chance to counter typhlosion (a chance- it's not even a surefire answer!)? I myself, had slowking in literally every match. Guess why? Slowking, a premier def wall, is designed to soak up defensive hits but that doesn't mean you switch it into a crawdaunt's crunch. Although I agree not a lot of UU walls can handle typhlosion, but slowking miltank grumpig are reliable answers. I don't see what is unhealthy with slowking climbing usage. It is a versatile defensive wall capable of stopping a lot of threats, even special attacking ones. If anyone thought people ran slowking solely for typhlosion they would be incorrect. 8 minutes ago, LifeStyle said: No love for Calm Walrein Blame species clause everyone busy with their sub drum ones gbwead 1 Link to comment
SweeTforU Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I like typhlosion so I think we should keep it uu Arimanius, DrButler and jasonoon95 3 Link to comment
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