OrangeManiac

Just a small thing, but this isn't just Showdown QoL-feature - all these counters have also existed in the real games for a good while. Even GameFreak considers that in competitive Pokemon all this information should be available for players all the time and they shouldn't have to memorize how many turns of something is still left. Also having this info seems like a high priority to me because PokeMMO is Android game now too and trying to read the battle chat with Android is an absolute mess and puts mobile players in a disadvantage against computer players. Either way, having the turn counters on the screen will benefit everyone and makes the game closer to how Pokemon is supposed to be played so idk why this isn't a thing yet.

So your argument is because there's this interaction with one Pokemon, then there's no need to hide opponent's ability for all the other Pokemon - which in the core games is supposed to be hidden information? Or why are you commenting this in this thread?

Ah yes, I went my first 5000 hours without OT shiny. I think it was about 5 years of playing. 

Ah yes, I went my first 5000 hours without OT shiny. I think it was about 5 years of playing. 

Ah yes, I went my first 5000 hours without OT shiny. I think it was about 5 years of playing. 

Nice one man, as Incog said there are better shinies but we understand there are limitations that you don't control. 

GL to everyone participating. 

There's just so much wrong with this. You clearly have no clue how chess A.I. works and why it isn't applicable to a game like Pokemon. In chess, A.I. can use raw calculating power to calculate every reasonable line to come up with "the best possible move". In Pokemon, there's way too much variability from RNG damage ranges to secondary effects to actually playing the psychological mindgames against your opponent, which they can more easily beat if they know they are playing against a predictable computer. There is rarely in Pokemon such a thing as "undeniable best play" because you always have to make assumption of EV spreads, movesets, opponent's strategy and so on. I have no clue why you went on such a weird tangent about chess A.I. in Pokemon but please stop going any further with this, as you are not making any sense.
 
Then on the other point of discussion. Assessing random move powers to things that has no resemblance to canon games is an awful idea. It just makes the whole game look like a hissy-fit thrown by 15-year-old because in their subjective mind something in the original game wasn't right so now thousands of players have to suffer through it, while majority of the playerbase wants to play Pokemon games that at least some way resemble the original games they grew up with. That's why keeping a move with older gen mechanic is much better option than randomly coming up with your own customized power and effect that makes the whole other community just scratching their head.

There is a big difference here. Hydreigon/Chomp had their moves removed so they wouldn't have to be pushed to Ubers, because the devs insisted that no Pokemon should be out of competitive play. Assessing a random power to a move isn't done out of similar necessity to prevent a Pokemon from going to Ubers.
 
Gallade was the first time such arbitrary numerical nerf that has been applied and if you think it didn't cause any controversy then go read even a couple of comments about that whole discussion. It opened this exact can of worms we have right now where people are suggesting random numerical adjustments to things which is just a horrible look and this is exactly many people opposed 1,3x/1,4x Gallade in that discussion.
 
Also, I'm not arguing what the devs will or will not do, I have no power over them neither do I want to have. I'm just arguing what I think makes the game look bad and what doesn't. I've always thought the 1,3x/1,4x Gallade nerf made the game's competitive look bad in that regard but in the end it's their game so they can do whatever they want.

There's just so much wrong with this. You clearly have no clue how chess A.I. works and why it isn't applicable to a game like Pokemon. In chess, A.I. can use raw calculating power to calculate every reasonable line to come up with "the best possible move". In Pokemon, there's way too much variability from RNG damage ranges to secondary effects to actually playing the psychological mindgames against your opponent, which they can more easily beat if they know they are playing against a predictable computer. There is rarely in Pokemon such a thing as "undeniable best play" because you always have to make assumption of EV spreads, movesets, opponent's strategy and so on. I have no clue why you went on such a weird tangent about chess A.I. in Pokemon but please stop going any further with this, as you are not making any sense.
 
Then on the other point of discussion. Assessing random move powers to things that has no resemblance to canon games is an awful idea. It just makes the whole game look like a hissy-fit thrown by 15-year-old because in their subjective mind something in the original game wasn't right so now thousands of players have to suffer through it, while majority of the playerbase wants to play Pokemon games that at least some way resemble the original games they grew up with. That's why keeping a move with older gen mechanic is much better option than randomly coming up with your own customized power and effect that makes the whole other community just scratching their head.

There is a big difference here. Hydreigon/Chomp had their moves removed so they wouldn't have to be pushed to Ubers, because the devs insisted that no Pokemon should be out of competitive play. Assessing a random power to a move isn't done out of similar necessity to prevent a Pokemon from going to Ubers.
 
Gallade was the first time such arbitrary numerical nerf that has been applied and if you think it didn't cause any controversy then go read even a couple of comments about that whole discussion. It opened this exact can of worms we have right now where people are suggesting random numerical adjustments to things which is just a horrible look and this is exactly many people opposed 1,3x/1,4x Gallade in that discussion.
 
Also, I'm not arguing what the devs will or will not do, I have no power over them neither do I want to have. I'm just arguing what I think makes the game look bad and what doesn't. I've always thought the 1,3x/1,4x Gallade nerf made the game's competitive look bad in that regard but in the end it's their game so they can do whatever they want.

There's just so much wrong with this. You clearly have no clue how chess A.I. works and why it isn't applicable to a game like Pokemon. In chess, A.I. can use raw calculating power to calculate every reasonable line to come up with "the best possible move". In Pokemon, there's way too much variability from RNG damage ranges to secondary effects to actually playing the psychological mindgames against your opponent, which they can more easily beat if they know they are playing against a predictable computer. There is rarely in Pokemon such a thing as "undeniable best play" because you always have to make assumption of EV spreads, movesets, opponent's strategy and so on. I have no clue why you went on such a weird tangent about chess A.I. in Pokemon but please stop going any further with this, as you are not making any sense.
 
Then on the other point of discussion. Assessing random move powers to things that has no resemblance to canon games is an awful idea. It just makes the whole game look like a hissy-fit thrown by 15-year-old because in their subjective mind something in the original game wasn't right so now thousands of players have to suffer through it, while majority of the playerbase wants to play Pokemon games that at least some way resemble the original games they grew up with. That's why keeping a move with older gen mechanic is much better option than randomly coming up with your own customized power and effect that makes the whole other community just scratching their head.

There is a big difference here. Hydreigon/Chomp had their moves removed so they wouldn't have to be pushed to Ubers, because the devs insisted that no Pokemon should be out of competitive play. Assessing a random power to a move isn't done out of similar necessity to prevent a Pokemon from going to Ubers.
 
Gallade was the first time such arbitrary numerical nerf that has been applied and if you think it didn't cause any controversy then go read even a couple of comments about that whole discussion. It opened this exact can of worms we have right now where people are suggesting random numerical adjustments to things which is just a horrible look and this is exactly many people opposed 1,3x/1,4x Gallade in that discussion.
 
Also, I'm not arguing what the devs will or will not do, I have no power over them neither do I want to have. I'm just arguing what I think makes the game look bad and what doesn't. I've always thought the 1,3x/1,4x Gallade nerf made the game's competitive look bad in that regard but in the end it's their game so they can do whatever they want.

There's just so much wrong with this. You clearly have no clue how chess A.I. works and why it isn't applicable to a game like Pokemon. In chess, A.I. can use raw calculating power to calculate every reasonable line to come up with "the best possible move". In Pokemon, there's way too much variability from RNG damage ranges to secondary effects to actually playing the psychological mindgames against your opponent, which they can more easily beat if they know they are playing against a predictable computer. There is rarely in Pokemon such a thing as "undeniable best play" because you always have to make assumption of EV spreads, movesets, opponent's strategy and so on. I have no clue why you went on such a weird tangent about chess A.I. in Pokemon but please stop going any further with this, as you are not making any sense.
 
Then on the other point of discussion. Assessing random move powers to things that has no resemblance to canon games is an awful idea. It just makes the whole game look like a hissy-fit thrown by 15-year-old because in their subjective mind something in the original game wasn't right so now thousands of players have to suffer through it, while majority of the playerbase wants to play Pokemon games that at least some way resemble the original games they grew up with. That's why keeping a move with older gen mechanic is much better option than randomly coming up with your own customized power and effect that makes the whole other community just scratching their head.

Knock Off is one of the most broken moves ever created. It was a gigantic mistake even on its time but we need to remember that Knock Off always existed in an era where reliably at least one Pokemon could hold an item that couldn't be knocked off. In gen 6, it was mega stones. In gen 7, it was teracrystals. Even having a somewhat reliable switch-in to Knock Off made it still stupidly broken and the most splashable move the game has ever had. Also, like Forfi said the buffed Knock Off has never existed without Fairy-type. All things put together, Knock Off is stupidly broken anyways but we're lacking the few things that can even somewhat keep it from becoming the most brainless and spammable move in the game's history. That's why it's reasonable Knock Off was never touched and updated to newer gen mechanics, unlike many other moves.

There is a big difference here. Hydreigon/Chomp had their moves removed so they wouldn't have to be pushed to Ubers, because the devs insisted that no Pokemon should be out of competitive play. Assessing a random power to a move isn't done out of similar necessity to prevent a Pokemon from going to Ubers.
 
Gallade was the first time such arbitrary numerical nerf that has been applied and if you think it didn't cause any controversy then go read even a couple of comments about that whole discussion. It opened this exact can of worms we have right now where people are suggesting random numerical adjustments to things which is just a horrible look and this is exactly many people opposed 1,3x/1,4x Gallade in that discussion.
 
Also, I'm not arguing what the devs will or will not do, I have no power over them neither do I want to have. I'm just arguing what I think makes the game look bad and what doesn't. I've always thought the 1,3x/1,4x Gallade nerf made the game's competitive look bad in that regard but in the end it's their game so they can do whatever they want.

There's just so much wrong with this. You clearly have no clue how chess A.I. works and why it isn't applicable to a game like Pokemon. In chess, A.I. can use raw calculating power to calculate every reasonable line to come up with "the best possible move". In Pokemon, there's way too much variability from RNG damage ranges to secondary effects to actually playing the psychological mindgames against your opponent, which they can more easily beat if they know they are playing against a predictable computer. There is rarely in Pokemon such a thing as "undeniable best play" because you always have to make assumption of EV spreads, movesets, opponent's strategy and so on. I have no clue why you went on such a weird tangent about chess A.I. in Pokemon but please stop going any further with this, as you are not making any sense.
 
Then on the other point of discussion. Assessing random move powers to things that has no resemblance to canon games is an awful idea. It just makes the whole game look like a hissy-fit thrown by 15-year-old because in their subjective mind something in the original game wasn't right so now thousands of players have to suffer through it, while majority of the playerbase wants to play Pokemon games that at least some way resemble the original games they grew up with. That's why keeping a move with older gen mechanic is much better option than randomly coming up with your own customized power and effect that makes the whole other community just scratching their head.

There is a big difference here. Hydreigon/Chomp had their moves removed so they wouldn't have to be pushed to Ubers, because the devs insisted that no Pokemon should be out of competitive play. Assessing a random power to a move isn't done out of similar necessity to prevent a Pokemon from going to Ubers.
 
Gallade was the first time such arbitrary numerical nerf that has been applied and if you think it didn't cause any controversy then go read even a couple of comments about that whole discussion. It opened this exact can of worms we have right now where people are suggesting random numerical adjustments to things which is just a horrible look and this is exactly many people opposed 1,3x/1,4x Gallade in that discussion.
 
Also, I'm not arguing what the devs will or will not do, I have no power over them neither do I want to have. I'm just arguing what I think makes the game look bad and what doesn't. I've always thought the 1,3x/1,4x Gallade nerf made the game's competitive look bad in that regard but in the end it's their game so they can do whatever they want.

There's just so much wrong with this. You clearly have no clue how chess A.I. works and why it isn't applicable to a game like Pokemon. In chess, A.I. can use raw calculating power to calculate every reasonable line to come up with "the best possible move". In Pokemon, there's way too much variability from RNG damage ranges to secondary effects to actually playing the psychological mindgames against your opponent, which they can more easily beat if they know they are playing against a predictable computer. There is rarely in Pokemon such a thing as "undeniable best play" because you always have to make assumption of EV spreads, movesets, opponent's strategy and so on. I have no clue why you went on such a weird tangent about chess A.I. in Pokemon but please stop going any further with this, as you are not making any sense.
 
Then on the other point of discussion. Assessing random move powers to things that has no resemblance to canon games is an awful idea. It just makes the whole game look like a hissy-fit thrown by 15-year-old because in their subjective mind something in the original game wasn't right so now thousands of players have to suffer through it, while majority of the playerbase wants to play Pokemon games that at least some way resemble the original games they grew up with. That's why keeping a move with older gen mechanic is much better option than randomly coming up with your own customized power and effect that makes the whole other community just scratching their head.

There's just so much wrong with this. You clearly have no clue how chess A.I. works and why it isn't applicable to a game like Pokemon. In chess, A.I. can use raw calculating power to calculate every reasonable line to come up with "the best possible move". In Pokemon, there's way too much variability from RNG damage ranges to secondary effects to actually playing the psychological mindgames against your opponent, which they can more easily beat if they know they are playing against a predictable computer. There is rarely in Pokemon such a thing as "undeniable best play" because you always have to make assumption of EV spreads, movesets, opponent's strategy and so on. I have no clue why you went on such a weird tangent about chess A.I. in Pokemon but please stop going any further with this, as you are not making any sense.
 
Then on the other point of discussion. Assessing random move powers to things that has no resemblance to canon games is an awful idea. It just makes the whole game look like a hissy-fit thrown by 15-year-old because in their subjective mind something in the original game wasn't right so now thousands of players have to suffer through it, while majority of the playerbase wants to play Pokemon games that at least some way resemble the original games they grew up with. That's why keeping a move with older gen mechanic is much better option than randomly coming up with your own customized power and effect that makes the whole other community just scratching their head.

Knock Off is one of the most broken moves ever created. It was a gigantic mistake even on its time but we need to remember that Knock Off always existed in an era where reliably at least one Pokemon could hold an item that couldn't be knocked off. In gen 6, it was mega stones. In gen 7, it was teracrystals. Even having a somewhat reliable switch-in to Knock Off made it still stupidly broken and the most splashable move the game has ever had. Also, like Forfi said the buffed Knock Off has never existed without Fairy-type. All things put together, Knock Off is stupidly broken anyways but we're lacking the few things that can even somewhat keep it from becoming the most brainless and spammable move in the game's history. That's why it's reasonable Knock Off was never touched and updated to newer gen mechanics, unlike many other moves.

Knock Off is one of the most broken moves ever created. It was a gigantic mistake even on its time but we need to remember that Knock Off always existed in an era where reliably at least one Pokemon could hold an item that couldn't be knocked off. In gen 6, it was mega stones. In gen 7, it was teracrystals. Even having a somewhat reliable switch-in to Knock Off made it still stupidly broken and the most splashable move the game has ever had. Also, like Forfi said the buffed Knock Off has never existed without Fairy-type. All things put together, Knock Off is stupidly broken anyways but we're lacking the few things that can even somewhat keep it from becoming the most brainless and spammable move in the game's history. That's why it's reasonable Knock Off was never touched and updated to newer gen mechanics, unlike many other moves.

Knock Off is one of the most broken moves ever created. It was a gigantic mistake even on its time but we need to remember that Knock Off always existed in an era where reliably at least one Pokemon could hold an item that couldn't be knocked off. In gen 6, it was mega stones. In gen 7, it was teracrystals. Even having a somewhat reliable switch-in to Knock Off made it still stupidly broken and the most splashable move the game has ever had. Also, like Forfi said the buffed Knock Off has never existed without Fairy-type. All things put together, Knock Off is stupidly broken anyways but we're lacking the few things that can even somewhat keep it from becoming the most brainless and spammable move in the game's history. That's why it's reasonable Knock Off was never touched and updated to newer gen mechanics, unlike many other moves.

I think it's slightly arrogant to imply that the things aren't the way you want them to be just because the devs "haven't studied other MMOs".
 
In short - no, this is not even intended to be some survival RPG or whatever you imagine in your head for a "Pokemon MMO" to be. This is just a way to play the core Pokemon games with your friends, and by forcing you to put some effort into getting yourself the valuables you want. That's the way this game has always been and they're not gonna change it after 12 years just for you.

There's a difference between restricted legendaries (the really powerful ones like Kyogre, Mewtwo, Lugia, Palkia, Reshiram, etc) and your average legendaries like Articuno-Zapdos-Moltres or Entei-Raikou-Suicune. In regards to VGC, they have never been treated the same way just for being legendaries. VGC usually calls the restricted legendaries "Special Pokemon", you can see which Pokemon count as such from here https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special_Pokémon
 
Also VGC has (almost always) banned mythical Pokemon but that's arguably more due to accessibility than "balance". Point is that these three categories (legendaries/restricteds/mythicals) have been always treated separately and there has never been restrictions on the less powerful legendaries (unless it is due to Pokedex-restrictions).
 
I think Scarlet & Violet was the first game to begin with no legendaries as it had banned Chi-Yu/Chien-Pao/Wo-Chien/Ting-Lu from Series 1 but you could argue their power level was so significantly higher than the non-Paradox Pokemon that it was justified. But historically looking at VGC, something like legendary birds or legendary dogs have been never banned. (Only maybe Pokedex-restricted as part of a new update but not due to their power)
 
Also calling Articuno broken in MMO environment just isn't right. Articuno is absolutely awful in PokeMMO environment. The metagame is against it, it doesn't have Terastalization option. There's literally nothing to be worried about it. Zapdos is the only legendary in Top 20 most used Doubles Pokemon and even Zapdos is far away from being broken.
 
I think the only one to be canonically banned from VGC would be Shaymin as it is a Mythical Pokemon. But even for that, Mythical Pokemon have been generally banned due to being unaccessible outside of distributions events rather than being overpowered (as regular Shaymin is mid af).
 

I think it's slightly arrogant to imply that the things aren't the way you want them to be just because the devs "haven't studied other MMOs".
 
In short - no, this is not even intended to be some survival RPG or whatever you imagine in your head for a "Pokemon MMO" to be. This is just a way to play the core Pokemon games with your friends, and by forcing you to put some effort into getting yourself the valuables you want. That's the way this game has always been and they're not gonna change it after 12 years just for you.