gbwead

Looking at the January 2019 UU metagame, Yanmegga seemed very difficult to stop as well and yet it never got banned:
Most of these mons are NU today. Sure, NU doesn't have Crobat and Snorlax, but NU still has Gigalith, Mantine, Milotic, Golbat, Cryogonal (btw @Imperial you calced Cryogonal with 70 base hp instead of 80), etc.
 
I'm very confident Yanmegga will be unhealthy, but that's not a reason to ban something without testing it out.

Manager & Teams History (work in Progress)
 
PSL 1 hosted by @ThinkNicer
 PSL 2 hosted by @ThinkNicer
 PSL 3 hosted by @ThinkNicer
 PSL 4 hosted by @OrangeManiac
 PSL 5 hosted by @Gunthug
 PSL 6 hosted by @DoubleJ
 PSL 7 hosted by @DoubleJ
 PSL 8 hosted by @BurntZebra
 PSL 9 hosted by @DoubleJ
 PSL 10 hosted by @Mkns1070, @xXBlu3BreathXx & @LKrenz
 PSL 11 hosted by @DaftCoolio
 PSL 12 hosted by @gbwead
 PSL 13 hosted by @pachima & @ThinkNicer
 PSL 14 hosted by @gbwead
 PSL 15 hosted by @KaynineXL
 PSL 16 hosted by @DoctorPBC & @Imperial
 

Returning it to 1.5x was the result of a 5-1 tier council vote in late November, unrelated to the legendary birds. To my understanding it was largely the belief that the initial ban/nerf was too hasty mixed with a dislike for 1.4x on principle.
 
We'll be introducing some more answers to Gallade with the raid update. Although we'd (devs) prefer to keep it in the tier until then to avoid the disruptive process of removing then reintroducing it soon after, the tier council is still allowed to ban it if they believe that it's too broken to wait. You're welcome to make a case for a ban in the OU discussion request thread.

TC never made an announcement about it. It was announced in a changelog. That's why most of us are assuming it was a devs decision and TC had nothing to do with it.

 

Looking at the January 2019 UU metagame, Yanmegga seemed very difficult to stop as well and yet it never got banned:
Most of these mons are NU today. Sure, NU doesn't have Crobat and Snorlax, but NU still has Gigalith, Mantine, Milotic, Golbat, Cryogonal (btw @Imperial you calced Cryogonal with 70 base hp instead of 80), etc.
 
I'm very confident Yanmegga will be unhealthy, but that's not a reason to ban something without testing it out.

Looking at the January 2019 UU metagame, Yanmegga seemed very difficult to stop as well and yet it never got banned:
Most of these mons are NU today. Sure, NU doesn't have Crobat and Snorlax, but NU still has Gigalith, Mantine, Milotic, Golbat, Cryogonal (btw @Imperial you calced Cryogonal with 70 base hp instead of 80), etc.
 
I'm very confident Yanmegga will be unhealthy, but that's not a reason to ban something without testing it out.

I rarely agree with Pachima, but I do this time.
 
This is the only part I believe to be misrepresented because I don't think Dugtrio deletes a significant portion of the format when you look at the most common OU mons 1 by 1.

I want to stress out something important; if there is a problem, it's not AT or Dugtrio, but indeed the combination of both. AT by itself is not banworthy, just like Wonder Guard on Shedinja specifially is not banworthy. Since bans are never permanent on PokeMMO, I think if something gets done about AT+Dugtrio, we need to consider the potential nerfs. I think banning AT or nerfing it does not make sense since the ability is completly fine on Trapinch and Diglett. Reducing back Dugtrio's base attack to 80 like it was in the past would be imo completly cannon and authentic to the original games. 

I'm personally fine if TC determines Dugtrio+AT as banworthy. I think there are good reasons to vote for or against that ban. However, I truly fear the nerf that will come afterwards and I really hope people will push for the attack stat reduction and not something else. Every single pokemon in OU that Dugtrio traps will be affected positively by an attack stat reduction except for Magnezone and Ttar that I mentionned earlier and that's a good thing.

Team Tag: [SIÂ]
Team Name: SIC ITUR AD ASTRA
Registered Players: Mkns, gbwead, Cmawesome, imat, zokuru, Daven, LeZenor, jgaw, lunarck, jaawax, azphiel, schuchty, zbleeex, gilvy, getovaherez
Team Captain: Mkns

Team Tag: [SIÂ]
Team Name: SIC ITUR AD ASTRA
Registered Players: Mkns, gbwead, Cmawesome, imat, zokuru, Daven, LeZenor, jgaw, lunarck, jaawax, azphiel, schuchty, zbleeex, gilvy, getovaherez
Team Captain: Mkns

I suggest the following 7 tier format:
OU (2pts) OU UU NU Dubs LC UT There would be 2 OU duels per week. One would be worth 2 pts; the second one would be worth 1 pt. This could give us very hyped match ups since it will mean managers will have a big incentive to always put their best player in the OU slot worth more. No dodging basically.

We have an average of 250k OU duels per month compared to 5k in UU, 7k in NU and 9k in Dubs. I understand that some might find it boring to have 3 OU duels in a 8 tiers PSL lineup, but OU still needs to be well represented in PSL since more than 90% of the duels played in PokeMMO are OU duels.

Team Tag: [SIÂ]
Team Name: SIC ITUR AD ASTRA
Registered Players: Mkns, gbwead, Cmawesome, imat, zokuru, Daven, LeZenor, jgaw, lunarck, jaawax, azphiel, schuchty, zbleeex, gilvy, getovaherez
Team Captain: Mkns

We have finally reached a point when, in the very rare situation where Caio is right and Sweet is wrong, some hiveminded people brainlessly side with Sweet, dismissing Caio, not because it is the logical thing to do, not because the argument tells them to do so, but simply because in their minds the argument is less important than whoever claims it. (Tip: It isn't)
 
Weavile IS a Serperior check. I don't care what gimmicks you want to extrapolate, or whatever you want to say or imply or claim. There is proper terminology in the Pokemon world and instead of actually fighting for or against the actual arguments, we loop between semantics where some have no idea what they are talking about. 
 
Thank you VadimEmpoleon for going through it properly. 
 
Regarding Dugtrio, and, most specifically, Gb's post on it. It is true some of Dugtrio's targets can dodge. Some can pivot, others have enough bulk. Yada yada. But you missed the fundamental point. Dugtrio is not supposed to hard switch against them. It is supposed to gain free momenum beforehand so it can then trap its target. There is only one way (Barring the very irrelevant Shed shell), to prevent this, which is to never play the Pokemon before Dugtrio is taken down. Congratulations! Dugtrio has successfully pressured their threats without even being on the field. This is unhealthy. 
 
Or, is it? Magnezone and Tyranitar can, in a way, accomplish the same. So what is the difference between these two and Dugtrio? The amount of targets they possess. The first two have very limited choices, while Dugtrio is able to delete a very significant part of the format. This is the main reason why the Pokemon was chronically banned in most formats. It is very easy and worthy trading a death so Dugtrio can then safely delete the threat you want to get rid of.
 
But what is the unhealthy part? Is it Dugtrio? Is it Arena Trap? The issue with this question is you cannot completely separate the Pokemon from their ability (Or whatever else they possess). Afterall, Diglett and Trapinch are not an issue. Does this mean Arena Trap is inherently unhealthy? Both yes and no. 
 
Since this is probably hard to grasp at first glance, let me find something else: Wonder Guard. Is it broken, or unhealthy? Not necessarily. Afterall, Shedinja is harmless with it. Let's see another harmless Pokemon in OU: Jolteon (Yes, irrelevant enough so it is not even OU). Jolteon with Wonder Guard would be both broken and unhealthy. This is interesting because Jolteon by itself isn't an issue, and neither is Shedinja with the ability. It is the combination of the two that would make it a problem. 
 
Maybe you can argue Arena Trap isn't unhealthy. You can definitely argue Dugtio isn't broken. But you can't simply state that because A and B are not an issue and share an ability with C, then C isn't an issue either.
 
To answer the question. What is the unhealthy part? Not one or the other separately, but simply the combination of the two. 
 
(Yes, I understand Wonder Guard Jolteon doesn't exist. The argument is still the same)
 
 
 
 

Not gonna lie, I hate this statement a lot. It's extremely biased and should not be considered as factual. That's just nostalgia talking most of the time. People tend to remember past PSLs more fondly than recent PSLs while also remembering their past experience as better than they actually were while in reality, PSL is probably just a series of ups and downs since the first edition and not a negative slop forever going down like people like to claim. The treatment recent PSLs get is not fair because they are not looked through an objective lens but rather through a subjective nostalgia-type of lens. Things changes, meta changes, people changes so does most elite and top players. Old top players become washed or leave altogether, new top players break through and replaces them and this happening is not a bad thing, it just shows the community can replenish itself with new skilled players. It's not because you and your friends used to take part in past PSLs that all things happening after that period have gone down hill in quality. It's a very self-centered way to view things and very inaccurate. It feels like some are trying to delegitimize new events just because they are not in them or because it's not like it used to be, it's very disingenuous for new players who are trying to make a name of themselves. Some people look down on PSLs now and like to drag it down simply to elevate the times they were in it which is what kills the hype IMO.
 
 

Team Tag: [SIÂ]
Team Name: SIC ITUR AD ASTRA
Registered Players: Mkns, gbwead, Cmawesome, imat, zokuru, Daven, LeZenor, jgaw, lunarck, jaawax, azphiel, schuchty, zbleeex, gilvy, getovaherez
Team Captain: Mkns

I suggest the following 7 tier format:
OU (2pts) OU UU NU Dubs LC UT There would be 2 OU duels per week. One would be worth 2 pts; the second one would be worth 1 pt. This could give us very hyped match ups since it will mean managers will have a big incentive to always put their best player in the OU slot worth more. No dodging basically.

We have an average of 250k OU duels per month compared to 5k in UU, 7k in NU and 9k in Dubs. I understand that some might find it boring to have 3 OU duels in a 8 tiers PSL lineup, but OU still needs to be well represented in PSL since more than 90% of the duels played in PokeMMO are OU duels.

I suggest doing a 1 month test for Yanmega in case its usage doesn't rise by the end of the month.
 
I think NU is probably better without Yanmega but there are some mons that can deal with the Choice Specs Tinted Lens variant like Calm Mantine (except HP Electric), Gigalith, Cryogonal, Golbat (except Psychic), Calm Articuno?,  (doesn't seem very good to use for any other purpose), Audino. U-turn seems problematic though.
 
A good part of the sweepers in NU are also faster than Yanmega like Cinccino, Adamant Sceptile, Tauros, Typhlosion, Mismagius, Zoroark, etc. Some have Sturdy like Golem and some have Focus Sash like Froslass.
 
The Speed Boost variant doesn't seem like a big threat and it could be interesting to see it in the tier because it would manage to surpass common mons in NU like Scarf Blaziken and strong threats like Torterra.
 
My main concern about it is U-turn but I think it's worth a try to test it.

The Psychic situation is very similar when you compare Golbat to Crobat. Obviously, the Speed for Bulk tradeoff has an impact in that match up, but it's not that different.

I suggest..
OU OU UU NU Dubs LC OU UT LC DB Reason for no ps: bc it's mmo
Reason for LC DB: only one db in psl seems lonely, isn't it? Roll the lucky star in LC :).   Also LC DB may have better stable enviroment UU/NU/UT, maybe. (Although it's not official, but still fun). And LC community can support the regular tour to test it out. (And getting more data to build next lcpl
Reason for 8 tires: to get tie and drama.

I suggest the following 7 tier format:
OU (2pts) OU UU NU Dubs LC UT There would be 2 OU duels per week. One would be worth 2 pts; the second one would be worth 1 pt. This could give us very hyped match ups since it will mean managers will have a big incentive to always put their best player in the OU slot worth more. No dodging basically.

We have an average of 250k OU duels per month compared to 5k in UU, 7k in NU and 9k in Dubs. I understand that some might find it boring to have 3 OU duels in a 8 tiers PSL lineup, but OU still needs to be well represented in PSL since more than 90% of the duels played in PokeMMO are OU duels.

I don't think Yanmegga would be broken in NU since a few walls can stop it like Gigalith and Golbat. However, I suspect it would be very unhealthy for the NU metagame. Offense would gain a double edge sword with Yanmegga as a powerful tool, but also as what could be an unstoppable threat. 

It might still be worth testing tho. Looking back at 2019, the UU meta didn't have much to deal with Yanmegga (only Crobat and Snorlax really, since Empoleon didn't exist, Milotic was OU and Gigalith was NU). Perhaps Cryogonal would become more viable. It's hard to tell, but honnestly I'm not sure what Offense will be able to do vs Yanmegga.

Ya, but I don't see Stall struggling vs Yanmegga. Offense would tho imo.

I don't think Yanmegga would be broken in NU since a few walls can stop it like Gigalith and Golbat. However, I suspect it would be very unhealthy for the NU metagame. Offense would gain a double edge sword with Yanmegga as a powerful tool, but also as what could be an unstoppable threat. 

It might still be worth testing tho. Looking back at 2019, the UU meta didn't have much to deal with Yanmegga (only Crobat and Snorlax really, since Empoleon didn't exist, Milotic was OU and Gigalith was NU). Perhaps Cryogonal would become more viable. It's hard to tell, but honnestly I'm not sure what Offense will be able to do vs Yanmegga.

Manager & Teams History (work in Progress)
 
PSL 1 hosted by @ThinkNicer
 PSL 2 hosted by @ThinkNicer
 PSL 3 hosted by @ThinkNicer
 PSL 4 hosted by @OrangeManiac
 PSL 5 hosted by @Gunthug
 PSL 6 hosted by @DoubleJ
 PSL 7 hosted by @DoubleJ
 PSL 8 hosted by @BurntZebra
 PSL 9 hosted by @DoubleJ
 PSL 10 hosted by @Mkns1070, @xXBlu3BreathXx & @LKrenz
 PSL 11 hosted by @DaftCoolio
 PSL 12 hosted by @gbwead
 PSL 13 hosted by @pachima & @ThinkNicer
 PSL 14 hosted by @gbwead
 PSL 15 hosted by @KaynineXL
 PSL 16 hosted by @DoctorPBC & @Imperial
 

Consistently, no. There are many viable teams against which Dugtrio can't consistently set up a winning situation.
Uncompetitive applies to moves and abilities. Arena Trap by nature is not necessarily uncompetitive, espcially on mons like Trapinch and Diglett that suck so bad that even AT is not enough to make them viable or interresting. Arena Trap on Dugtrio is another story tho, but does it take autonomy from players to an unacceptable degree, that's arguable.
 
Most OU mons that seem weak to Dugtrio can usually manage just fine: Infernape can u-turn, Metagross/Empoleon have enough bulk, Lucario has priority and Excadrill has Rapid Spin. The mons that can't do anything vs Dugtrio are Magnezone and Ttar. They are doomed if they stay in front of a Dugtrio switching in. Ironanically, Magnezone and Ttar fall pretty much in the same category of uncompetitiveness as Dugtrio. Magnezone Trapping Skarm, Scizor, Empoleon, Ferrothorhn, etc. Ttar having the potential to trap everything with Pursuit, but mainly Chandelure that becomes useless. The difference is that unlike Dugtrio, Magnezone and Ttar have high stats so even when they don't have a specific target to trap, they are rarely dead weight. Dugtrio can totally be dead weight if it doesn't have a target to trap. 

With that being said, Arena Trap may affect more mons than Magnezone and Ttar, but Dugtrio itself doesn't accomplish as much with Arena Trap than Magnezone and Ttar in general. Using Dugtrio to trap Ttar or Magnezone is pretty much fighting fire with fire imo.

Edit: Forgot to mention Volcarona that also gets trapped by Dugtrio and I'll concede that u-turn Volcarona is not super common.

From Forums Tiering Definitions:
 
What is a Check?
A pokemon that under normal conditions can beat the opposing pokemon before it is itself beaten. Switching into the opposing pokemon should usually be costly, risky or impossible depending on the situation.
 
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 88-105 (60.6 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
252 Atk Weavile Icicle Spear (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 88-108 (58.6 - 72%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Weavile Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 132-162 (88 - 108%) -- approx. 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Weavile Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 176-216 (117.3 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Spear (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 132-156 (88 - 104%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Serperior: 198-234 (132 - 156%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Edit 1: Weavile is a Serperior check by definition, at least in most situations, but this still has nothing to do with Gallade.
Edit 2: Added CB Weavile calcs too.