EricRasp Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, Gunthug said: Remove dragon typing on hydregon Or just ban specs :shrug: Link to comment
Tawla Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 14 hours ago, Aerun said: I'm genuinely wondering what can even switch in on a Rhyperior in NU Bronzor lol. They will force us to play bronzor in every game. Link to comment
Aerun Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tawla said: Bronzor lol. They will force us to play bronzor in every game. Fun fact not even Bronzor can beat it +2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 85-100 (51.8 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Megahorn is the best coverage move imo as it beats Tangrowth, Tangela, Claydol and Bronzor Only counter I can think of is Fast Tangela 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 112-134 (65.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 0 SpA Tangela Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 201-243 (105.7 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO 100 speed evs to outspeed max speed adamant Rhyperior DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
DarylDixon Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) zoroark also is the other one should be banned with roserade that thing is enough cancer, for now this "tc" (if we have to call it a serious tier council), are caring to ban garchomp from ou, and just doing only the usage updates , over caring on when a thing is to op for a tier.. Edited August 29, 2020 by DarylDixon Link to comment
Zymogen Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 18 minutes ago, Aerun said: Fun fact not even Bronzor can beat it +2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 85-100 (51.8 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Megahorn is the best coverage move imo as it beats Tangrowth, Tangela, Claydol and Bronzor Only counter I can think of is Fast Tangela 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 112-134 (65.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 0 SpA Tangela Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 201-243 (105.7 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO 100 speed evs to outspeed max speed adamant Rhyperior quagsire Link to comment
AndrewHavsha Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Zymogen said: quagsire errr... 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 118-141 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (78.7 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Edited August 29, 2020 by AndrewHavsha DarylDixon and Zymogen 2 Link to comment
Aerun Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, AndrewHavsha said: errr... 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 118-141 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (78.7 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery I also wanna add this calc 252+ Atk Life Orb Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 103-122 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery All out Attacker Rhyperior with life orb just destroys everything and you are not locked with CB Rhyperior doesn't even have to run Ice Punch since Gligar is now UU lol Link to comment
Zymogen Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, AndrewHavsha said: errr... 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 118-141 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (78.7 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Yeah good point, I didn't calc CB, but I think this set is inferior because any well-built team would have the capacity to outplay the CB set. SD is more problematic, especially with Sub. It still lives a +2 so it counts as a check, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find any viable mon that confidently counters Rhyperior Edited August 29, 2020 by Zymogen Link to comment
Zymogen Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Aerun said: I also wanna add this calc 252+ Atk Life Orb Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 103-122 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery All out Attacker Rhyperior with life orb just destroys everything and you are not locked with CB Rhyperior doesn't even have to run Ice Punch since Gligar is now UU lol This calc is surprising yeah. Link to comment
DarylDixon Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 The return of weezing for that? Link to comment
Aerun Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 1 minute ago, DarylDixon said: The return of weezing for that? What is weezing 252+ Atk Life Orb Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 83-99 (48.2 - 57.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery Link to comment
gbwead Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Rhyperior's bulk makes it also almost impossible to find a counter too. Link to comment
ThinkNicer Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 NU is unstable as hell because there are too many Pokemon in it. Basically we need RU. Now that the devs have implemented ways to encourage play of all tiers, it should be feasible. razimove, Risadex, SoulTamerX and 4 others 7 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 9 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said: NU is unstable as hell because there are too many Pokemon in it. Basically we need RU. Now that the devs have implemented ways to encourage play of all tiers, it should be feasible. I don't necessarily disagree with this, but I feel like RU will just have the exact same balancing problems as NU has right now, no? DoubleJ and pachima 2 Link to comment
pachima Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Could we like, stop getting usage drops for NU until the tier is somewhat stabilized? It had broken stuff prior to September changes, and now things will only become more chaotic. I reached a point where I am not sure who/what to blame. TC can be really stagnant for some reason, but even they cannot perform miracles and discuss properly a tier where a bunch of pokemon are always rising dropping and disrupting the already chaotic metagame. If this keeps going we are going to have a NU super centralized metagame, where an handful of pokemon are stuck there via usage and no one to send them back to where they belong. Even worse the more Pokemon fulfill that criteria the harder it is to pinpoint what is actually disrupting the meta or not. TLDR; Please stop affecting NU with usage while TC doesn't properly discuss the current tier at hands. Zymogen 1 Link to comment
ThinkNicer Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 38 minutes ago, Gunthug said: I don't necessarily disagree with this, but I feel like RU will just have the exact same balancing problems as NU has right now, no? RU tier will have a general higher 'power level' than NU, and the meta will be experienced differently because of it. Right now is NU is a mishmash of things that are very powerful and things that can barely keep up. mateusvictor and Gunthug 2 Link to comment
pachima Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said: RU tier will have a general higher 'power level' than NU, and the meta will be experienced differently because of it. Right now is NU is a mishmash of things that are very powerful and things that can barely keep up. ultimately it is the same though. RU will be just current NU with a different name, and with another tier under it. Link to comment
gbwead Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, pachima said: Could we like, stop getting usage drops for NU until the tier is somewhat stabilized? It had broken stuff prior to September changes, and now things will only become more chaotic. I reached a point where I am not sure who/what to blame. TC can be really stagnant for some reason, but even they cannot perform miracles and discuss properly a tier where a bunch of pokemon are always rising dropping and disrupting the already chaotic metagame. If this keeps going we are going to have a NU super centralized metagame, where an handful of pokemon are stuck there via usage and no one to send them back to where they belong. Even worse the more Pokemon fulfill that criteria the harder it is to pinpoint what is actually disrupting the meta or not. TLDR; Please stop affecting NU with usage while TC doesn't properly discuss the current tier at hands. The idea behind cycled-based usage movements was to provide stability to lower tiers. Unfortunately, it's not perfect and perhaps we should look at better ways to handle these movements. Ideas? Edited August 29, 2020 by gbwead Link to comment
pachima Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Just now, gbwead said: The idea behind cycled-based usage movements was to provide stability to lower tiers. Unfortunately, it's not perfect and perhaps we should look at better ways to handle these movements. I agree with cycled-based usage movements. But we should probably create exceptions whenever the tier at stake is nowhere near stable neither properly discussed yet. Link to comment
RLotus Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, gbwead said: The idea behind cycled-based usage movements was to provide stability to lower tiers. Unfortunately, it's not perfect and perhaps we should look at better ways to handle these movements. Ideas? Tiering will continue to be usage based following a usage cycle of 3 months with 1.7% to move down, 6.7% to move up for the first 2, and with a cut-off point of 4.36% in the third month of a cycle. Changes will be made to the three tiers every month depending on if Pokemon fall below or above the cut-off point. Since July was the end of the last cycle, these changes shouldn't be made until next month right? Link to comment
ThinkNicer Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, gbwead said: Unfortunately, it's not perfect and perhaps we should look at better ways to handle these movements. Ideas? Reform the TC to only have active players. Yw Navetas, DoubleJ, Jaawax and 12 others 15 Link to comment
gbwead Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 1 minute ago, RLotus said: Tiering will continue to be usage based following a usage cycle of 3 months with 1.7% to move down, 6.7% to move up for the first 2, and with a cut-off point of 4.36% in the third month of a cycle. Changes will be made to the three tiers every month depending on if Pokemon fall below or above the cut-off point. Since July was the end of the last cycle, these changes shouldn't be made until next month right? We have a reset following every major update, so that's why we have a 4.36% cut-off point this month. Link to comment
RLotus Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, gbwead said: We have a reset following every major update, so that's why we have a 4.36% cut-off point this month. Well that's why it's been unstable. There were many drops in march and april due to sinnoh dropping, nothing in the following 2 months, and only 2 changes for nu in july. I suppose you would expect instability following big updates, I think the tier will be more stable with the regular cycle. Edit: Additionally, having a min elo for usage stats to count could make it a bit more stable. Many lower elo players are using many suboptimal mons that affect tiering. It would also make the stats more useful to look at. Edited August 29, 2020 by RLotus Link to comment
gbwead Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 1 minute ago, RLotus said: Well that's why it's been unstable. There were many drops in march and april due to sinnoh dropping, nothing in the following 2 months, and only 2 changes for nu in july. I suppose you would expect instability following big updates, I think the tier will be more stable with the regular cycle. It would be more stable yes, but it would be "fake stability" and the hit would be way harder when we arrive at the third month. I think the third month is always problematic for lower tiers and it's probably best to constantly have different cut-off points for pokemons moving up and down. The gap between 6.7% and 1.7% is perhaps too big tho. RLotus 1 Link to comment
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