Event Suggestions & Feedback

[Strych]

As you all know, we enjoy running events. We try to come up with as many new and exciting ideas for them as we can, whilst also attempting to cater to our broad player-base.

Have we run a particular event that you'd like to see again? Perhaps one that you didn't like so much?
Do you have an idea for an event that you'd like to see happen? We're interested in your feedback and ideas, so feel free to post them in this thread.


Please keep ideas within the realm of possibility. I realise "if X is implemented, Y could be a great event", but lets try to work with what we have.



Note: This thread is for the discussion of official events (like those posted in PokeMMO Official Events).

[Senile]

How is an experienced player stomping on a newb competitive. I use to run cross country, and was bad at it. But when im coming across the last stretch and i was neck and neck with someone it didnt matter that that person and I were in last place we still were being competitive, we were just competing on a lower level than the more faster ppl. In track and field there are even tiers of runners where they put all of the fastest competitors against each other and the slower competitors against each other on purpose. So to say creating less incentive for more experienced players to not compete in SOME tournies so that less experienced players can compete with each other is stifling competition is simply not true.   

 

Oh sloppy, one benefit of not giving out shiny prizes in every tourny is that it it creates less incentive for more experienced players to show up at SOME tournies, not all tournies, so that less experienced players can compete against each other in an official tourny environment. Dont try and make my argument seem ridiculous by not restating the entire idea behind it. 

And the new kids fighting each other in the first round are both "competing against each other"; If anything, discouraging some older players from participating makes the problem worse, because then you end up in situations of 31 randoms with 1 of the better players roflstomping the bracket, with no one else even having a chance. Not only is that bad for viewer interest, making tournaments kinda boring to watch, but it's not very competitive at all.

[Gunthug]

How is an experienced player stomping on a newb competitive. I use to run cross country, and was bad at it. But when im coming across the last stretch and i was neck and neck with someone it didnt matter that that person and I were in last place we still were being competitive, we were just competing on a lower level than the more faster ppl. In track and field there are even tiers of runners where they put all of the fastest competitors against each other and the slower competitors against each other on purpose. So to say creating less incentive for more experienced players to not compete in SOME tournies so that less experienced players can compete with each other is stifling competition is simply not true.   

 

Oh sloppy, one benefit of not giving out shiny prizes in every tourny is that it it creates less incentive for more experienced players to show up at SOME tournies, not all tournies, so that less experienced players can compete against each other in an official tourny environment. Dont try and make my argument seem ridiculous by not restating the entire idea behind it. 

Oh Cody. Newbs HAVE to be thrown into the fire. Would you recommend someone spend their first month of compeittive play just dueling people in Celadon ch1 (even lower than virid used to be) and then saying ok theyre ready for comp? I used to love getting stomped as a noob, because I learned an enormous amount - what worked for my team (usually very little), what were my team's weaknesses (basically everything), and what team archetypes the real good players use. You're not helping noobs by filtering out the top competitive players, you're stunting their growth while also hurting the competitive community as a whole.

 

As usual, I didn't have to try and make your argument seem ridiculous, Cody. Even after not-so-eloquently rephrasing yourself, it still makes no sense. You're literally saying that some tourneys missing the top competitive players will be good for the competitive community because noobs have less competition. That's absolutely ridiculous

[codylramey]

And the new kids fighting each other in the first round are both "competing against each other"; If anything, discouraging some older players from participating makes the problem worse, because then you end up in situations of 31 randoms with 1 of the better players roflstomping the bracket, with no one else even having a chance. Not only is that bad for viewer interest, making tournaments kinda boring to watch, but it's not very competitive at all.

I mean jayfeat, 4fi, and lion are the only competent comp players that i know that would do something like that. But yea that is a potential problem I agree. But I think after a few laughs most of the old players would get bored of that and stop doing it. I mean you dont see it very often in unofficials.

 

 

Oh Cody. Newbs HAVE to be thrown into the fire. Would you recommend someone spend their first month of compeittive play just dueling people in Celadon ch1 (even lower than virid used to be) and then saying ok theyre ready for comp? I used to love getting stomped as a noob, because I learned an enormous amount - what worked for my team (usually very little), what were my team's weaknesses (basically everything), and what team archetypes the real good players use. You're not helping noobs by filtering out the top competitive players, you're stunting their growth while also hurting the competitive community as a whole.

 

As usual, I didn't have to try and make your argument seem ridiculous, Cody. Even after not-so-eloquently rephrasing yourself, it still makes no sense. You're literally saying that some tourneys missing the top competitive players will be good for the competitive community because noobs have less competition. That's absolutely ridiculous

Newbs dont HAVE to be thrown in the fire. While training for anything you always have some form of... well training. They can build their way up on each other, come up with their own shit, and work their way to becoming resistant to this "fire". Every noob starts in viridian, then work their way up to doing officials. Some will go from viridian to unofficials, and some will just str8 to officials. All Im saying is that it would be nice if noobs had an official format where they can test their comp skills on each other. Where they dont have to worry about getting first rounded bc challonge's rng wasnt on their side. And having lower tier non shiny prize tournies could be a way of doing that. Ofc, as senile pointed out, some ppl may be uguus and join for the lulz. But that kind of thing would only be as common as it is in unofficial with money prizes.

 

Also i havent rephrased anything. Where are you even getting that from? I also never said it would be good for the comp community. It would however be good for the player experience for newer players.

Edited January 23, 2015 by codylramey

[Emlee]

I honestly think it's fine to have the following things:

• Good prizes for gimmicks that take a lot of work (It doesn't always have to be this way no, and if people actually find it to be toruture they don't have to sign up and partake. It's really as simple as that).
• Typically a good prize for a standard tournament, but some that aren't as good, especially if there are a ton of standards going on. If this means that"highly competitive people" aren't as present and newer people have more of a chance to win than so be it. Honestly I don't understand why people don't compete regardless of prize. You play this game for fun right? Don't you find it fun to win, even if it's not some amazing prize? it isn't as though you get absolutely nothing. :S I understand it takes time/money to prepare, etc, but eh, I guess I just don't understand such a big change in mentality when it comes to playing in tournaments now. This isn't anything personal against anyone. 
• Commons or smaller prizes for competitions that are "anyone's win". That statement is hard to define but an example of these are Clefairy Cup and 1v1. 

[Senile]

 

I honestly think it's fine to have the following things:

• Good prizes for gimmicks that take a lot of work (It doesn't always have to be this way no, and if people actually find it to be toruture they don't have to sign up and partake. It's really as simple as that).

I don't agree with gimmicks having good prizes, especially not now.

If your gimmick requires so much much work that it requires a quite good prize for anyone to even bother entering it, then don't make such a complicated fucking gimmick. Make one which is more easily accessible. If the point of a gimmick is so that's some weird twist on battling instead of just a standard format, don't make people grind out an entire, unique team for it, especially not now with how expensive breeding is at the moment. Even with a good prize, you're asking people to throw away potentially millions of yen for a prize they (probably) won't win. Yes, people can just not join, but if the prize is good enough people WILL join. And I don't think that's a good situation to have at all, if the point of gimmicks is to be some fun little event, forcing people to grind and spend tons of money just because they want some ridiculous shiny prize that was deemed worthy for a gimmick is silly. A gimmick shouldn't be a staff member going "hey wouldn't this fucking stupidly convoluted ruleset be kinda cool guys?", it should be "wouldn't people enjoy this?"

 

And if the gimmick requires people to sink a ridiculous amount of time in, chances are, no, no it wouldn't be that enjoyable, but yes, you'll definitely get a full bracket if you jack the prize up enough.

[BurntZebra]

I don't agree with gimmicks having good prizes, especially not now.

If your gimmick requires so much much work that it requires a quite good prize for anyone to even bother entering it, then don't make such a complicated fucking gimmick. Make one which is more easily accessible. If the point of a gimmick is so that's some weird twist on battling instead of just a standard format, don't make people grind out an entire, unique team for it, especially not now with how expensive breeding is at the moment. Even with a good prize, you're asking people to throw away potentially millions of yen for a prize they (probably) won't win. Yes, people can just not join, but if the prize is good enough people WILL join. And I don't think that's a good situation to have at all, if the point of gimmicks is to be some fun little event, forcing people to grind and spend tons of money just because they want some ridiculous shiny prize that was deemed worthy for a gimmick is silly. A gimmick shouldn't be a staff member going "hey wouldn't this fucking stupidly convoluted ruleset be kinda cool guys?", it should be "wouldn't people enjoy this?"

 

And if the gimmick requires people to sink a ridiculous amount of time in, chances are, no, no it wouldn't be that enjoyable, but yes, you'll definitely get a full bracket if you jack the prize up enough.

catchmmo had several byes and prize was shiny vulpix, I think some gimmicks are just not worth the time for some people

[Senile]

catchmmo had several byes and prize was shiny vulpix, I think some gimmicks are just not worth the time for some people

That's because CatchMMO is the kind of tournament that you think of and say "wouldn't this be cool?", not the kind of tournament that people actually give enough of a fuck about to bother for, and a gimmick like that definitely shouldn't be run.

[XelaKebert]

Ok, so here's the deal. Someone lay out the exact proposals from the last few pages. Let's make this more of Suggestions and Feedback and less cursing and swearing at each other because that gets us nowhere.

[Heimann]

Ok, so here's the deal. Someone lay out the exact proposals from the last few pages. Let's make this more of Suggestions and Feedback and less cursing and swearing at each other because that gets us nowhere.

Master Series for Creative Media.
[spoiler]
pls
[/spoiler]

[DoubleJ]

 

Ok, so here's the deal. Someone lay out the exact proposals from the last few pages. Let's make this more of Suggestions and Feedback and less cursing and swearing at each other because that gets us nowhere.

 

 

1. Forfeit option for PVP

2. No changes to official standard tournament prizes (competitive players appreciate shiny prizes over other options)

3. Remove shiny prizes from certain official events, such as low-commitment based Gimmicks (instead provide useable goods)

4. Master's series

5. Additional creative media competitions, most notably a Video Advertisement contest for PokeMMO similarly to contests in the past

Edited January 23, 2015 by DoubleJJ

[Munya]

Less shiny prizes for official standard tournaments is more like it, especially now that there are going to be so many of them.  Items or money that can be used by the competitive player instead.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Munya

[OldKeith]

I don't see how an artificially produced shiny per week can really affect the "shiny economy". A week after the update most hoenn shinies were found in the wild.

[Munya]

I don't see how an artificially produced shiny per week can really affect the "shiny economy". A week after the update most hoenn shinies were found in the wild.

 

Then just give them out at every event, and people can stop complaining about making the prizes consistent, they shouldn't need to worry about the tier of the shiny.

[codylramey]

I dont see how not having a shiny prize at EVERY tourny is going to really hurt anything. Maybe not at first bc we're remaking the tiers and we need as many good players at every tourny possible for usage stats but after the tiers have settled i think giving cash/shards/braces/everstones/godlydittos instead of shinies at a tourny every so often isnt gonna hurt anything. Also second place could be cash/shards/braces/everstones/godly dittos instead of RP too. 

Edited January 23, 2015 by codylramey

[Emlee]

I don't agree with gimmicks having good prizes, especially not now.

If your gimmick requires so much much work that it requires a quite good prize for anyone to even bother entering it, then don't make such a complicated fucking gimmick. Make one which is more easily accessible. If the point of a gimmick is so that's some weird twist on battling instead of just a standard format, don't make people grind out an entire, unique team for it, especially not now with how expensive breeding is at the moment. Even with a good prize, you're asking people to throw away potentially millions of yen for a prize they (probably) won't win. Yes, people can just not join, but if the prize is good enough people WILL join. And I don't think that's a good situation to have at all, if the point of gimmicks is to be some fun little event, forcing people to grind and spend tons of money just because they want some ridiculous shiny prize that was deemed worthy for a gimmick is silly. A gimmick shouldn't be a staff member going "hey wouldn't this fucking stupidly convoluted ruleset be kinda cool guys?", it should be "wouldn't people enjoy this?"

 

And if the gimmick requires people to sink a ridiculous amount of time in, chances are, no, no it wouldn't be that enjoyable, but yes, you'll definitely get a full bracket if you jack the prize up enough.

I am not referring to a huge prize, I just think that a gimmick that takes a lot of work should have a prize equal to a standard tournament. I think you're really missing the point with the "good prize forcing people to play" thing. A good prize is a reward for all the hard work putting into it and also winning it. You have to reward people for that, it isn't so much as "let's make the prize big so that people can tolerate putting themselves through this torture". If a gimmick is bad enough that people truly dislike it then I am sure it won't be held again.

 

You're really just trying to make the same point over and over from what I have read (yes, I did read the thread before posting). I don't agree with you, and that is fine. We can agree to disagree.

[Kiliminati]

1. Forfeit option for PVP
2. No changes to official standard tournament prizes (competitive players appreciate shiny prizes over other options)
3. Remove shiny prizes from certain official events, such as low-commitment based Gimmicks (instead provide useable goods)
4. Master's series
5. Additional creative media competitions, most notably a Video Advertisement contest for PokeMMO similarly to contests in the past

We need all of this, pls consider! C:

[Gunthug]

Then just give them out at every event, and people can stop complaining about making the prizes consistent, they shouldn't need to worry about the tier of the shiny.

I'm fine with this. I've never been that concerned with one event getting a much higher value shiny than another, considering most staff members who host tourneys have no clue what the market is like and cba to "even up" the shinies

 

I think it's worth noting that there'd be considerably less complaining about Tranz's "non shiny" prize if the value of the prize were consistent with the other tournaments. If, for example, he was giving out 2m-3m worth of materials, rather than a measly 600k (pretty much the value of the least valuable shiny in the entire game at the moment), I would welcome the prize change. But once again, >staff knowing what values actually mean

[Darkshade]

I would welcome the prize change. But once again, >staff knowing what values actually mean

 

We're very aware of market value.

And the change to the monetary value that is given as a prize in Tranzmaster's tournament is an intentional one.

[Gunthug]

We're very aware of market value.

And the change to the monetary value that is given as a prize in Tranzmaster's tournament is an intentional one.

why the sudden desire to lower prize values?

[XelaKebert]

 

1. Forfeit option for PVP

2. Remove shiny prizes from certain official events, such as low-commitment based Gimmicks (instead provide useable goods)

3. Master's series

4. Additional creative media competitions, most notably a Video Advertisement contest for PokeMMO similarly to contests in the past

 

1. There is already an active suggestion on that.
2. What sort of usable goods would you suggest?
3. We're discussing some alternatives to the year long Masters that would still capture a lot of the magic of the original series.
4. Video contest aside, what specific creative media competitions would you like to see?

[KingBowser]

why the sudden desire to lower prize values?

I imagine so gimmicks can have even a smaller turnout. 16 person tournaments seems to be the goal.

[Emlee]

why the sudden desire to lower prize values?

Just a hunch but if they're changing the values of certain things it's because they've looked at the numbers behind it (their quantitative data on the server) and are unhappy with those numbers. I don't know for a fact though. 

[DoubleJ]

We're very aware of market value.

And the change to the monetary value that is given as a prize in Tranzmaster's tournament is an intentional one.

 

But why? We would appreciate an explanation and also further information on whether this is something that is going to be common (please no).

 

 

1. There is already an active suggestion on that.
2. What sort of usable goods would you suggest?
3. We're discussing some alternatives to the year long Masters that would still capture a lot of the magic of the original series.
4. Video contest aside, what specific creative media competitions would you like to see?

 

 

1. You said last few pages, so I just wanted to throw that in there in the event you missed it. 

2. Yen primarily, as that can produce the other goods quite easily. After that goods like everstones, pp max, braces, and shards would be nice, but also equivalent to other event prize values. For example no prizes worth less than a total of 500k.

3. We would greatly appreciate that.

4. I'm not the master of creative media, but I'm sure there are folks here that could speak on that. Up till now you all have done a great job introducing one amazing project every so often. It would be nice to see those more often. It's fun to check out everyone's hard work as well. Also, keep giving them great prizes!

 

I imagine so gimmicks can have even a smaller turnout. 16 person tournaments seems to be the goal.

 

PSA to the Mods: This will likely happen. Gimmicks are really straining on player involvement (team building, need new pokes, need new sets, etc), and with the new breeding system it will only be harder. A gimmick every now and then is good, but try to avoid those really time-heavy events unless an amazing prize is attached along with it. As Emlee said, this is a reward for our hard work. 

 

 

Just a hunch but if they're changing the values of certain things it's because they've looked at the numbers behind it (their quantitative data on the server) and are unhappy with those numbers. I don't know for a fact though. 

 

If this is the case, I really wish they would share their logic. 

Edited January 23, 2015 by DoubleJJ

[Gunthug]

Just a hunch but if they're changing the values of certain things it's because they've looked at the numbers behind it (their quantitative data on the server) and are unhappy with those numbers. I don't know for a fact though. 

I wasn't claiming that they were doing it arbitrarily. I'm sure they have some reason behind doing it. Vaguely stating that they may have numbers they've looked at leaves me no closer to an answer to my genuine question.

 

I also doubt the staff's awareness of the market, despite your reassurance Darkshade. How else can you explain increasing the vendor prices of stardust and starpieces? I think you bumped the sell back price up from what, 2500 to 4000? We have this thing called an active marketplace, where stardust sells for at least 15k quickly, and starpieces sell for twice that. That move showed a lack of awareness of market values because you're almost tempting noobs who are less involved in the market to throw away money rather than utilizing what should be the center of the community

[Emlee]

 

If this is the case, I really wish they would share their logic. 

 

It's probably one of those need to know basis type things. :s

I wasn't claiming that they were doing it arbitrarily. I'm sure they have some reason behind doing it. Vaguely stating that they may have numbers they've looked at leaves me no closer to an answer to my genuine question.

 

I don't think it's very vague. It's not just that they have a reason, it's that they most likely have a reason that was backed by numbers. I think you can theorize what those numbers could possibly be conceptually.