Event Suggestions & Feedback

Strych · February 17, 2013

As you all know, we enjoy running events. We try to come up with as many new and exciting ideas for them as we can, whilst also attempting to cater to our broad player-base.

Have we run a particular event that you'd like to see again? Perhaps one that you didn't like so much?
Do you have an idea for an event that you'd like to see happen? We're interested in your feedback and ideas, so feel free to post them in this thread.

Please keep ideas within the realm of possibility. I realise "if X is implemented, Y could be a great event", but lets try to work with what we have.

Note: This thread is for the discussion of official events (like those posted in PokeMMO Official Events).

Emlee · January 13, 2015

If you can't acknowledge that by hosting more gimmicks they're missing opportunities to host standards then you don't have a grasp on how opportunity cost works. Has absolutely nothing to do with correlation/causation

Edit: also, please quote me if you're going to address my points. I dislike the passive aggressive no-quote method that you usually employ

I'm sorry that you think I've been passive aggressive towards you. I don't quote you because I don't have something direct to say to you. If I don't quote people then it's usually a generalization that applies to one school of thought for the given topic, not that my points/post content is directed towards someone. So again, sorry if you felt offended by that.

Back to the topic: I am just giving my input. As a retired staff member I hosted gimmicks because I wanted to, not because I thought to myself "I will either host a gimmick or a standard". If staff are hosting more gimmicks it's because they have ideas for gimmicks that they want to put out. It's not taking away from standards but rather adding to events in general. Don't forget these people are volunteers and that they dedicate how much time they wish to towards what they happen to want to do. I won't say that I think there needs to be more standard tournaments, but if you want more than ask for it instead of/without complaining about gimmicks. Unless the current event staff are vastly different than the ones I worked with and myself then they're not deciding against standards just because they are hosting gimmicks.

Let's have a civil discussion, please. I'm not interested in attacking people personally or being dramatic.

Gunthug · January 13, 2015

I'm sorry that you think I've been passive aggressive towards you. I don't quote you because I don't have something direct to say to you. If I don't quote people then it's usually a generalization that applies to one school of thought for the given topic, not that my points/post content is directed towards someone. So again, sorry if you felt offended by that.

Back to the topic: I am just giving my input. As a retired staff member I hosted gimmicks because I wanted to, not because I thought to myself "I will either host a gimmick or a standard". If staff are hosting more gimmicks it's because they have ideas for gimmicks that they want to put out. It's not taking away from standards but rather adding to events in general. Don't forget these people are volunteers and that they dedicate how much time they wish to towards what they happen to want to do. I won't say that I think there needs to be more standard tournaments, but if you want more than ask for it instead of/without complaining about gimmicks. Unless the current event staff are vastly different than the ones I worked with and myself then they're not deciding against standards just because they are hosting gimmicks.

It's still considered respectful to quote someone if what you're saying is a rebuttal to what they're saying. An example would be earlier when you rattled off a snide comment about archi accusing forfi of kidding noads ass. I could go through your post history and likely find countless other examples of you unfortunately using passive aggressive tactics to belittle your opponents, which really detract from your otherwise insightful opinions, but I won't waste either of our time with that. It's a reputation you've rightfully accumulated

Back to the topic, I understand you're giving your input as a former (and by the looks of it, hopeful to return) staff member. You don't have to keep saying that - I automatically assume that what you type is your opinion. However, what j type is my opinion, and my opinion is that you're objectively wrong. I don't understand how you don't think a staff member hosting a gimmick is taking away a chances of a standard being hosted instead - anytime a staff member makes an event, he/she is doing so as an alternative to any other event they could have held. but remember, they're just volunteers, and so there's a limit to how many events can be held per month. Filling the docket with gimmicks hinders the amount of standards that can be hosted.

If staff are hosting more gimmicks than standards because they WANT to, that's fine. As a member of the competitive community, I'm making it known that I WANt them to host less gimmicks and more standards, and I'm well within my rights to do so. I'm also obviously not alone in this sentiment.

I can address this issue more when I'm off work, though

Emlee · January 13, 2015

It's still considered respectful to quote someone if what you're saying is a rebuttal to what they're saying. An example would be earlier when you rattled off a snide comment about archi accusing forfi of kidding noads ass. I could go through your post history and likely find countless other examples of you unfortunately using passive aggressive tactics to belittle your opponents, which really detract from your otherwise insightful opinions, but I won't waste either of our time with that. It's a reputation you've rightfully accumulated

Back to the topic, I understand you're giving your input as a former (and by the looks of it, hopeful to return) staff member. You don't have to keep saying that - I automatically assume that what you type is your opinion. However, what j type is my opinion, and my opinion is that you're objectively wrong. I don't understand how you don't think a staff member hosting a gimmick is taking away a chances of a standard being hosted instead - anytime a staff member makes an event, he/she is doing so as an alternative to any other event they could have held. but remember, they're just volunteers, and so there's a limit to how many events can be held per month. Filling the docket with gimmicks hinders the amount of standards that can be hosted.

If staff are hosting more gimmicks than standards because they WANT to, that's fine. As a member of the competitive community, I'm making it known that I WANt them to host less gimmicks and more standards, and I'm well within my rights to do so. I'm also obviously not alone in this sentiment.

I can address this issue more when I'm off work, though

I am sorry you think they're snide comments but I actually felt several people were being hard on Noad, so I made a comment. I'm not going to go and quote every single person in order to please you. I don't consider my posting passive aggressive but you're entitled to your opinion and I am sorry you feel that way. Again, there is no need to discuss what you think I am known for or not, I'm not interested in arguing with someone about my personal self who does not know me/nor do I know them~ I am more than happy to discuss events though! Especially if you can be considerate and respectable towards me.

As for the topic at hand it's not actually an alternative to another event if someone hosts a gimmick. It's more so an addition. If a staff member wants to host a gimmick they will, if they want to host a standard then they will. It's not as though one takes away from the other. This is why you will see some staff members hosting a lot of events, and some hosting a little. They legitimately host whatever they want and there isn't pressure on them to host specific events haha. Some staff don't want to host any standards at all, and that is their choice. There is no limit on their choices actually, one month they may want to host several events the next they may host none.

It may be useful to ask yourself "What is the point in asking for less gimmicks?". If you don't want to play in them then don't, they truly do not have an impact on you. Also why do you get to determine if gimmicks aren't hosted? What about the people that enjoy playing in them, or enjoy putting them on? I truly think it's between those people. You're entitled to asking for more standards, but I think you could go about it in a different way. An alternative to this is hosting unofficial events if you would like more standard tournaments and you do not feel that the staff are providing them.

Keep in mind that just because other people agree with you doesn't mean you're absolutely correct. I am sure you know this though. We may have to agree to disagree on the topic at hand. I was just hoping to enlighten you on how events are hosted by staff as you seemed confused or unaware of certain things~

Gunthug · January 13, 2015

I am sorry you think they're snide comments but I actually felt several people were being hard on Noad, so I made a comment. I'm not going to go and quote every single person in order to please you.

Consider the quoting-who-you're-responding-to thing a friendly suggestion, then. Call it "forum etiquette." Something to keep in mind for the future.

As for the topic at hand it's not actually an alternative to another event if someone hosts a gimmick.

It's clear to me that you aren't fully aware of what the phrase "opportunity cost" means, and because I'm not your economics professor, I won't attempt to explain it to you.

It's more so an addition. If a staff member wants to host a gimmick they will, if they want to host a standard then they will. It's not as though one takes away from the other.

Alright I'll give it a shot: when a staff member chooses to host a gimmick they're using up a finite pool of resources (referee availability and a particular date) that then cannot be used for a standard. So, yes, gimmicks DO take away from standards, just as standards take away from gimmicks.

This is why you will see some staff members hosting a lot of events, and some hosting a little. They legitimately host whatever they want and there isn't pressure on them to host specific events haha.

That's exactly what I, and other members of the community, are trying to provide: pressure on staff to host specific events. Namely, standard tournaments for OU, UU, NU, and Doubles. These are the true metagames of PokeMMO, and it's already been explained countless times why these tournaments are more important to the community than gimmicks.

Some staff don't want to host any standards at all, and that is their choice. There is no limit on their choices actually, one month they may want to host several events the next they may host none.

If we were seeing months with 3-4 official tournaments total, then I could understand the lack of standards. I still wouldn't be happy, but at least it would make sense - the motivation to host tournaments just isn't there, or refs just arent available. That wasn't the case last month

It may be useful to ask yourself "What is the point in asking for less gimmicks?". If you don't want to play in them then don't, they truly do not have an impact on you.

Asked myself, and got the same answer I've given you twice now. I'm asking for standard tournaments IN PLACE of gimmicks. Listen, if I thought it was feasable for staff to both increase the number of standards while maintaining the insane number of gimmicks, then I'd be fine with that too. But there are only so many days in a month, and so many times where refs are available.

Also why do you get to determine if gimmicks aren't hosted? What about the people that enjoy playing in them, or enjoy putting them on? I truly think it's between those people.

I don't get to determine if gimmicks are hosted, much in the same way you don't get to determine if standards are hosted. I'm voicing my opinion, my personal preference. Simply because I don't preface and end every one of my forum statements with "this is just my opinion, but..." doesn't negate this. Also, I don't know where you're getting that I don't want gimmicks hosted? I'm not saying to ABOLISH gimmicks - just shift the ratio more towards standards

You're entitled to asking for more standards, but I think you could go about it in a different way. An alternative to this is hosting unofficial events if you would like more standard tournaments and you do not feel that the staff are providing them.

I'm well aware of what I'm entitled to, and I'll kindly decline your suggestion to go about it in a different way. I wasn't disrespectful of noad on her tournament thread when I pointed out the lopsided gimmick:standard ratio, and I acknowledge that Noad isn't even the staff member who is culpable of the imbalance. But it was a thread for a gimmick tournament, the issue was raised, and I spoke my mind.

Also, I knew eventually someone would pull the "just go host unofficials if you don't like it" card. Fuck that. I can't provide the kind of monetary/shiny incentive to get people to fill the bracket, whereas staff can snap their fingers and a shiny prize appears. ONCE AGAIN, if staff weren't hosting many tournaments at all, maybe the "go host unofficials" argument would hold more water. But they are, and theyre choosing to host more gimmicks than standards, and I'm sick of it. Staff's finite pool of resources aren't being used in the way most healthy to this community, IMO.

Keep in mind that just because other people agree with you doesn't mean you're absolutely correct. I am sure you know this though. We may have to agree to disagree on the topic at hand.

Keep in mind that simply because you did things one way as a staff member doesn't mean that all staff members behave like you, or are incapable of constructive criticism.

I was just hoping to enlighten you on how events are hosted by staff as you seemed confused or unaware of certain things~

Remember that passive aggressive thing I was talking about earlier?

I've said this before somewhere but hosting the same tournaments each month honestly starts to feel like a chore for the host. Remember, the gimmicks are a break/alternative to regular tournaments for the hosts too and are also a chance to show some creativity.

If WND/SNH/FNF come back that's great, but they're quite draining to host. Getting enough people together on roughly the same day each month is tough as well. The only tournament that has been consistently done for over a year(mostly) is TT, which I'm so grateful for.

Edit: Just realised it turns two soon! Thanks to everyone continuing to host that event among all the other events that are hosted each month.

I totally understand that hosting a weekly standard tourney is probably exhausting. Unfortunately, though, what may be exhausting to a staff member is outweighed, in my opinion, by the positive benefits increased standards would have on our slowly evolving metagame. In fact, the lack of standard tournaments may have a lot to do with how slow our metagame evolves. It's times like these that I wish we had more staff members like Noad who were actually concerned with the shape of the meta

Also, it's not as if gimmicks aren't also exhausting. I'm sure Rache worked her ass off hosting that CatchMMO tourney, and the turnout was still much lower than expected. Standards, on the other hand, will never have any problem filling slots - people don't have to go train a whole new swath of comps for them with no certainty that theyll ever be used again.

Emlee · January 14, 2015

I totally understand that hosting a weekly standard tourney is probably exhausting. Unfortunately, though, what may be exhausting to a staff member is outweighed, in my opinion, by the positive benefits increased standards would have on our slowly evolving metagame. In fact, the lack of standard tournaments may have a lot to do with how slow our metagame evolves. It's times like these that I wish we had more staff members like Noad who were actually concerned with the shape of the meta

Also, it's not as if gimmicks aren't also exhausting. I'm sure Rache worked her ass off hosting that CatchMMO tourney, and the turnout was still much lower than expected. Standards, on the other hand, will never have any problem filling slots - people don't have to go train a whole new swath of comps for them with no certainty that theyll ever be used again.

Staff members not hosting gimmick tournaments =/= staff members hosting standards necessarily.

It wasn't passive aggressive to tell you I was trying to enlighten you, I genuinely was attempting to. No need for such negativity.

Govictory · January 14, 2015

how about a tourney where if you lose you have your team turned into magikarps :D

DoubleJ · January 14, 2015

Whahahahhahaha, I can't wait to read through all the drama employed by the OG of Drama starters. Anyhoos, to remain on topic for a bit...

Standard Tournaments > Gimmicks, "this is known" to quote my favorite peeps out of GoT, the Dothraki.

Standard tournaments develop a true competitive atmosphere. They don't have to be on the same day or week every month, just ensure that we get at least 2 from each tier every month and we'll be happy. Tiering also utilizes standard officials to help determine a balanced tier. Without standards, there is no true tier system.

Yes gimmicks can be fun, but they are also exhausting and costly. With every new gimmick we need to build new teams and even catch/breed/buy new pokes. When you implement a dozen gimmicks in one month, this is repeated over and over.

To topple another argument by Emlee: We play them because it's all we have in this game as competitive players. People want to win events, so they put in the work to play in them. Do they want to put in the work for a gimmick they have a small shot of winning? No. Do they? Yes.

Also, in regards to the other thread, I apologize if it seemed I was targeting Noad for hosting gimmicks. She's not the only staff member, but unfortunately she was the staff member to post another gimmick. If it were Xela, Tranz, or anyone else, I would have had the same reaction. It may have seemed outrageous, but it did exactly what I wanted it to do, and that was to point out that we would prefer Standards over Gimmicks.

Finally, this argument seems entirely moot now with the new update. We won't be seeing gimmicks simply because their is no effective tiering system. But this is a good bit of advice when tiers are established and gimmicks can be reintroduced.

Thank you if you read this and will take this into consideration with future events.

jayfeatskydd · January 14, 2015

We play them because it's all we have in this game as competitive players. People want to win events, so they put in the work to play in them. Do they want to put in the work for a gimmick they have a small shot of winning? No. Do they? Yes.

XelaKebert · January 14, 2015

We are going to be hosting more standards with the drastic meta changes to allow for the easiest and most expedient settling of tiers.

Emlee · January 14, 2015

doubleJJ, /you/ may play them for that reason but you're not someone who overall enjoys gimmicks then, right? So I wasn't referring to you. Nice try "toppling" an arguement.

Anyway. This isn't feedback anymore. I'm going to give up on defending myself and my logic/expertise.

DoubleJ · January 14, 2015

doubleJJ, /you/ may play them for that reason but you're not someone who overall enjoys gimmicks then, right? So I wasn't referring to you. Nice try "toppling" an arguement.

Anyway. This isn't feedback anymore. I'm going to give up on defending myself and my logic/expertise.

I've missed this, oh and your expertise too

EDIT: I'm curious though to see who in the community enjoys gimmicks though. They seem like a lot of hassle for nothing really.

Edited January 14, 2015 by DoubleJJ

Kizhaz · January 14, 2015

A couple weeks after Hoenn is out and people start to get some new pokemon, how about a Magma vs Aqua tourney. Divide into two groups, Team Magma and Team Aqua. Magma are only allowed to use pokemon found in ruby version and aqua are only allowed to use pokemon found in saphire. I haven't thought too much into this clearly so more ideas for it pls.

Also uniform required

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Lets not forget about this

meLANcholy · January 15, 2015

(Not sure if this is suggested already)

Same type Pokemon Tournament

e.g. 6v6 single battle composed of Dark type pokemon:

-Mightyena

-Shiftry

-Sableye

-Cacturne

-Sharpedo

-Houndoom

Munya · January 15, 2015

(Not sure if this is suggested already)

Same type Pokemon Tournament

e.g. 6v6 single battle composed of Dark type pokemon:

-Mightyena

-Shiftry

-Sableye

-Cacturne

-Sharpedo

-Houndoom

Monotypes happen, very rarely though.

OrangeManiac · January 16, 2015

Monotypes used to be a thing and even had those planned to be hosted monthly, however when people saw it is nothing but Normal, Dragon and Water-types then quickly the community's interest started to plummet.

Also, really glad the Standards are coming and for the sake of not letting established UU and NU players wait for eternity. I seriously hope nothing but OU officials are going to be hosted for the few couple of weeks. It could be different kinds of OU officials, Tag team or something like that as long as you can get usage stats out from it. Same with UU to get NU tier soon as possible.

Edited January 16, 2015 by OrangeManiac

Zorres00 · January 16, 2015

Since there was an nu tag team tourney, I would really really really really really really really really really really like it if there was a uu tag team tourney.

(pls make it happen)

Noad · January 16, 2015

Since there was an nu tag team tourney, I would really really really really really really really really really really like it if there was a uu tag team tourney.

(pls make it happen)

If this was to happen, it wouldn't be for a while yet because we do not currently have an official UU tier.

Zorres00 · January 16, 2015

If this was to happen, it wouldn't be for a while yet because we do not currently have an official UU tier.

better late than never

(i beg you)

londark · January 17, 2015

Sooner or later there should be a Battle of Hoenn style tourney

XelaKebert · January 17, 2015

Sooner or later there should be a Battle of Hoenn style tourney

Could you elaborate?

londark · January 17, 2015

Only pokemon aviable in Hoenn allowed

jayfeatskydd · January 19, 2015

Feedback: We asked for standards, we got them. Good shit. Happy to see the community being listened to.

DoubleJ · January 19, 2015

With the recent influx of Standards and the appearance that hosts/developers don't want Shiny Prizes being handed out every couple days, I would suggest that one shiny prize worth 5+ be awarded for one official each week. All other officials during the week could have item prizes valued at 500k between 1st and 2nd.

I think this makes sense while we lack tiers and gimmicks. Once other tiers are established and gimmicks return, hosts can decide prize value. At that point I would suggest that a shiny prize be always given for standards, while the host can dictate the worth of the gimmick prize based on difficulty to team build and commitment time.

Emlee · January 21, 2015

Good job with the event posters, staff. They look lovely and really make the events look exciting. I'm happy to essentially see a full return of posters... and wow there's even a poster event hehe ^_^

Blue · January 21, 2015

I would like to suggest the 1st prizes of official tourneys to be altered to yen or yen+items prizes instead of shinys.This way the prize is something that can be used right

away and with not too much effort. Shiny prizes are nice but they are often a pain to sell for right prize and also overflow the market with new shinys making them not so

rare and hard to aquire.So i suggest making 1st prize something like 3-5mil+useful items such as everstones and pp maxes.

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