[WC 6] PokeMMO World Cup 6th Edition - Feedback Thread

[gbwead]

PokeMMO World Cup 6

 

Welcome to the WC6 Feedback Thread. Now that this event is over, I'm opening this thread so players can give their input. This is the place to complain, criticize, appreciate or voice concerns about any aspect of the event that you would like the next host to change, improve or keep. If you agree or disagree with how the World Police handled a situation, if you respect or not any of the host decisions, if you want talk about the behaviour of certain players or just want to underline some format flaws of the event, please feel free to share your thoughts.

[gbwead]

My thoughts:

• WC6 Group Stage was too short. 3 weeks of Round Robin is not enough.
• I believe a Group Stage structure where more than 50% of each pool goes into the playoffs could be better and would reduce the chances of teams being eliminated after only 2 weeks. 
  • There should also be a clear plan when it comes to potential tie breakers in the group stage.
• A campaign phase in the preseason gives us imo more solid teams for the event overall imo and a better cash prize
  • The term "Mandatory Donator" is confusing, something like "Patriots" would be more appropriate imo.
  • Teams that do not enter the event should only get a portion of their donations back, not 100%.
  • Qualifiers tournaments should be reworked, so they are more flexible.
• Perhaps a limit of players per team would be a good thing. If there is no limit of players, there should be more than 6/5 duels per week. 
• I personally enjoyed the Snake Draft for the constitution of each group in the Group Stage. I think each Group was pretty balanced imo. 
• Rules regarding substitutions should be more defined going into a season. I personally believe substitution should be limited in some manner, but I'm not sure how.
• I'm not sure if WC Police / WC Staff is a great structure. I believe it could be reworked in something better.
• I'm happy with all the duels that got recorded and I hope future hosts will support players that want to record.
  • Rules regarding who records which duel should be clear going into the season to avoid any confusion and having multiple recordings for the same duel.
• I'm not someone very active on betting threads, but I think the Betting Club reduced the amount of players getting "scammed" compared to other seasons.

Edited October 15, 2023 by gbwead

[mxdzzz]

If it's only turn 1 and one player lost connection, issue that team yellow card, allow players rematch right away (Also report to host on dc right away).  

[mxdzzz]

Having a middle man would be better for Betting Club. But who would like to do so?

[Shadow]

15 minutes ago, mxdzzz said:

Having a middle man would be better for Betting Club. But who would like to do so?

Some of us are already listed as trusted middlemen

[awaLLz]

Disconnections

If you get disconnected during your match, do not reconnect to the game until a member of the World Cup Staff allows you to do so. Upon reconnection, previously disconnected players will have only 15 seconds to link their team to pre determined World Cup Staff. Based on the game situation when the disconnection occurred, the World Cup staff will determine if the game will be replayed or not and what are the rematch parameters. If the World Cup staff do not enforce the rematch on the player, the disconnected player will be considered the loser unless his/her opponent agrees to rematch on his/her own accord.

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I want to give you my personal opinion about this rule.

 

-Normally, In a tournament when you give a team/player the power to decide about a duel (which is the case of the Double battle in final) ALWAYS is going to looks BAD if they use the rule against the others cause, even if they feel attacked from everybody comments like monkeys, those hates comment made that China take that decision and like it or not.. they're in their rights cause the Disconnections rule allow that.

 

-Second, next WC7, This rule decision have to be managed by WC Police, not the team/players... it doesn't look sportsmanlike if they above to battle in the final tour,

even if this tour have money invested, the main purpose of this is to know who is the best country this year battling, not the best team winning like cowards (with all the respect to China) but this is what happen when you skip a duel cause everybody is comment with hate, you just need to shut their mouse.

 

-Something else but very important, you really need strong Police Staff to take radical decision against stupid players with no mercy.

 

-A proposal for this problem could be, if a player has Disconnections Problem since turn 1 & it can't past from turn 1 because of that like in this case, THEY MUST to restart the battle in 30 min after or maximum 1 hour, in case that he can play they should start the same way they started... example, the first 2 mons, same movement etc,... once the player confirm that he is able to play or not, in case of not.. They must be a double substitution, in favor of the opponent schedule.

considering if the battle is in Sunday, this could be the only case that you can apply an exceptions.

 

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Personally, I have nothing against China and Peru teams, but this situation could managed better if Police Staff have balls to manage this, and the teams don't involve Feelings,

cause all those hate comments made Peru play frustrated and China get hate comments.

 

[mxdzzz]

8 minutes ago, Shadow said:

Some of us are already listed as trusted middlemen

Jaja. then just let them know, easiler to avoid "scammed"

[awaLLz]

I have a comment about substitution rule. 

 

-Can we be able to question our captain before they start making substitution because they feel "you can not handle this"?

even without asking their player nothing about how the feel about their battles preparation, that really stupid when you spend a week preparing yourself to battle,

and then you sub out "Because I want it do it".

 

Considering that nobody want to practice, it is crazy to play this event considering that you get rotated like a beyblade. it is too complicate to ask your player how you feel before take a decision like that?

 

 

[caioxlive13]

Time to my imputs, and for everyone that don't want to see my post, st*u, i don't care to u.
 

• Not only letting everyone joins the country they want allowed, but even incentiving players on doing so, broke the spirit of the World Cup. The rule of World Cup 5 should be back for WC7 and restrings in some way people changing countrys. World Cup isn't about you go on a team with your friends and play with them, is about you unite forces with your country to play.
• LC forced is bad, but let everyone choose if want to play without restrictions kinda sucks, we could see simmilar cases of world cup 5 with countrys with 3, 4, 5... even 8 players registering for LC, and fully dodging the tier, but on WC4 and prior we have cases of countrys starting weeks losing 1-0 due to not having LC players. I suggest the rule of WC5 come back for next world cup with a rework: 
  • When registration period ends, the players registered will be checked. 
    • If the country has at least 3 players with LC selected as their choice, then the country is forcedly compatible with LC.
      "I recommended my players to select every tier, so i can put them to play in any tier if needed" I don't f*** care, the players must take the register seriously.
    • If the country has no players with LC selected as their choice, then the country is forcedly uncompatible with LC.
    • If the country has 1 or 2 players with LC selected as choice, then the country can choose if they wish to play LC on the tour.
    • Manager Choice come back to the tour, but LC is forbidden for being a Manager Choice.
  • Reason for check the player registered and not the selected is to prevent abuse. A country can have like, 5 LC players, and to not play the tier purposely reject 3 to be under the rule and be able to select to not play.
• Forcing teams to pay was a bad idea and shouldn't be back. Ok, we get a bigger prize pool, but the tournament needs to have such prize pool to attract people? Even PSL with 170m last season attracted over 200 people to play. If the tour is not based on non-official formats like LCPL, PCL and in some degree the Grand Slam, a high prize pool isn't needed, anything over 100m for team tours is enough. What this have done is exclude for some small countrys the possibility of even register because you can't compete with higher fishs on this war.
• Having a betting club was a great idea @gbwead, with all bets centralized in one place there is no place for scammers. 
• I think if it's to do a 16-team tournament, then we should do the group stage with Home and Away matches. Like Gb sayed, 3 weeks of round robin is not enough. There is a legit idea to try to win some money for Prize pool without actual harm: Teams could pay to select a place for playing their home matches, and those that do not want to do, would play on Vermilion.

Edited October 15, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Wallarro]

Hace 28 minutos, caioxlive13 dijo:

Obligara los equipos a pagar fue una mala idea y no debería volver. Vale, tenemos una bolsa de premios más grande, pero ¿el torneo tiene que tener esa bolsa de premios para atraer a la gente? Incluso el PSL con 170 m la temporada pasada atrajo a más de 200 personas para jugar. Si la gira no se basa enformatos no oficiales como LCPL, PCL y, en cierta medida, el Grand Slam, no se necesita un gran fondo de premios, cualquier cosa que supere los 100 m para las giras por equipos es suficiente. Lo que esto ha hecho es excluirpara algunos países pequeños la posibilidad de incluso de registrarse porque no se puede competir con peces más altos en esta guerra.

It was the best idea, no more free events

[caioxlive13]

Just now, Wallarro said:

It was the best idea, no more free events

Eh, you're sure? Grand Slam is there, and PCL as well.

[smadagos]

Yeah group stage was way too short imo. Each team of group X facing each teams of group X twice would be nice

[awaLLz]

41 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

 

• LC forced is bad, but let everyone choose if want to play without restrictions kinda sucks, we could see simmilar cases of world cup 5 with countrys with 3, 4, 5... even 8 players registering for LC, and fully dodging the tier, but on WC4 and prior we have cases of countrys starting weeks losing 1-0 due to not having LC players. I suggest the rule of WC5 come back for next world cup with a rework: 
  • When registration period ends, the players registered will be checked. 
    • If the country has at least 3 players with LC selected as their choice, then the country is forcedly compatible with LC.
    • If the country has no players with LC selected as their choice, then the country is forcedly uncompatible with LC.
    • If the country has 1 or 2 players with LC selected as choice, then the country can choose if they wish to play LC on the tour.
    • Manager Choice come back to the tour, but LC is forbidden for being a Manager Choice.
  • Reason for check the player registered and not the selected is to prevent abuse. A country can have like, 5 LC players, and to not play the tier purposely reject 3 to be under the rule and be able to select to not play.

Yeah, very good idea to repeat the same drama from past WC5 to WC7 with this change.  🙄🙄

[caioxlive13]

3 minutes ago, awaLLz said:

Yeah, very good idea to repeat the same drama from past WC5 to WC7 with this change.  🙄🙄

nah, the rework is to avoid drama. If the country has players to play the tier, they will play the tier. If they don't , they don't play. If the team can't abide this rule, then the team is weak at the point of refusing to play just because yes.

[awaLLz]

2 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

nah, the rework is to avoid drama. If the country has players to play the tier, they will play the tier. If they don't , they don't play. If the team can't abide this rule, then the team is weak at the point of refusing to play just because yes.

The think is, this is a tournament with rules and tiers etc...

Why we have to modify the tier format to helps team to compete in the same damn bored tiers?,, since we're having more and more LC players every year thanks to LCPL, and again is a tournament with rules, if somebody wants to play, they have to keep in mind that we have to select players to cover all the entire format, In not discussing that LC can give advantage to some team from another (it cans), but for that there are a lot of helps in LCPL and weekly tournament to motivate players to play LC... if they don't want to learn that's their problem. 

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, awaLLz said:

The think is, this is a tournament with rules and tiers etc...

Why we have to modify the tier format to helps team to compete in the same damn bored tiers?,, since we're having more and more LC players every year thanks to LCPL, and again is a tournament with rules, if somebody wants to play, they have to keep in mind that we have to select players to cover all the entire format, In not discussing that LC can give advantage to some team from another (it cans), but for that there are a lot of helps in LCPL and weekly tournament to motivate players to play LC... if they don't want to learn that's their problem. 

The problem comes that some countrys doesn't have that much LC players and even with some help on the likes of weekly tours, without LC Ladder we will still have lack of interess. And again, the intent of rule is to make countrys without players on those formats have the option to avoid it just to not start week losing 1-0 ( @Eipott won't let me lie, Germany last year if LC was forced would be every week start losing 1-0 due to their only LC player being their only Dubs player., and by that they would be forced onto give up on one of the two tiers every week. ) , but the rework is to prevent some countrys (belgium) to not take the register as the way it's intended, and avoiding a tier they could play, later. 
And with the registering rule being suggested to come back for what was on WC5, to avoid players playing for other countrys, this rework on LC-Compability rule became needed.
 

Edited October 15, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Draekyn]

3 hours ago, awaLLz said:

Disconnections

-A proposal for this problem could be, if a player has Disconnections Problem since turn 1 & it can't past from turn 1 because of that like in this case, THEY MUST to restart the battle in 30 min after or maximum 1 hour, in case that he can play they should start the same way they started... example, the first 2 mons, same movement etc,... once the player confirm that he is able to play or not, in case of not.. They must be a double substitution, in favor of the opponent schedule.

considering if the battle is in Sunday, this could be the only case that you can apply an exceptions.

How do you propose the host ensures no tweaking can be made to the disconnecting player's team in that 1 hour period?
Because that's the whole point of the rule, not allowing that.

[caioxlive13]

1 minute ago, Draekyn said:

How do you propose the host ensures no tweaking can be made to the disconnecting player's team in that 1 hour period?
Because that's the whole point of the rule, not allowing that.

I think they should have the following rule:

• Duels should have a judge present, either in form of the host by himself or a 3rd player not involved in any way with the tournament teams. This judge would be on link with both captains, and before the match both players would have to send him a full past with complete info about their team(Nature, Item, EV spreads, Moves). Then, as soon as the match starts the said judge would send the pastes for both captains via link to make sure he will not cheat in favor of some player. The player has full right to not send the paste. If a disconecction happens prior to turn 5 and the match is replayable(no low-chance hax has occured), they will look if the player disconnected send the paste. If he dids, then the match has to be redone no matter what. If no, then he loss unless the opponent agree on rematch on his own terms.

[Wallarro]

Hace 6 horas, caioxlive13 dijo:

Eh, ¿estás seguro? El Grand Slam está ahí, y el PCL también.

And?

[Axelgor]

13 hours ago, gbwead said:

My thoughts:

• WC6 Group Stage was too short. 3 weeks of Round Robin is not enough.
• I believe a Group Stage structure where more than 50% of each pool goes into the playoffs could be better and would reduce the chances of teams being eliminated after only 2 weeks. 
  • There should also be a clear plan when it comes to potential tie breakers in the group stage.
• A campaign phase in the preseason gives us imo more solid teams for the event overall imo and a better cash prize
  • The term "Mandatory Donator" is confusing, something like "Patriots" would be more appropriate imo.
  • Teams that do not enter the event should only get a portion of their donations back, not 100%.
  • Qualifiers tournaments should be reworked, so they are more flexible.
• Perhaps a limit of players per team would be a good thing. If there is no limit of players, there should be more than 6/5 duels per week. 
• I personally enjoyed the Snake Draft for the constitution of each group in the Group Stage. I think each Group was pretty balanced imo. 
• Rules regarding substitutions should be more defined going into a season. I personally believe substitution should be limited in some manner, but I'm not sure how.
• I'm not sure if WC Police / WC Staff is a great structure. I believe it could be reworked in something better.
• I'm happy with all the duels that got recorded and I hope future hosts will support players that want to record.
  • Rules regarding who records which duel should be clear going into the season to avoid any confusion and having multiple recordings for the same duel.
• I'm not someone very active on betting threads, but I think the Betting Club reduced the amount of players getting "scammed" compared to other seasons.

It's good to see you're focused on details but the spirit of WC is pretty much dead from this World cup onwards. Even last WC felt more authentic, this feels more like a version of PSL. Whatever the flaws of the previous host, the floodgates to join whichever team you want were opened during this one. GL tho

[Poufilou]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:58 PM, gbwead said:

• A campaign phase in the preseason gives us imo more solid teams for the event overall imo and a better cash prize
  • The term "Mandatory Donator" is confusing, something like "Patriots" would be more appropriate imo.
  • Teams that do not enter the event should only get a portion of their donations back, not 100%.
  • Qualifiers tournaments should be reworked, so they are more flexible.
• Perhaps a limit of players per team would be a good thing. If there is no limit of players, there should be more than 6/5 duels per week. 

Before the competition started, I had offered some rules on the general thread (around page 6) that would reinforce the "spirit" of world cup by limiting the capacity of players joining the team they want without repercussions for said team. Now that it ended, do you think it would have been a good thing ? 

 

One of the solutions I had for limiting foreign players was putting a cap limit of players per team (I see that you suggest one now for a different reason). The cap prevents from putting too many foreign members as they need a good % of mandatory donators to be qualified. Another thing I had in mind to make sure it is relevant (if player cap would end up too big for that to matter) is putting a donation amount cap per player. But this donation cap would be flexible, to not limit actual donation. For example, if the cap is 3M per mandator, that player can send 4M, and the extra 1M will only be relevant in case of tie between 2 teams with same amount of donators, but will only count as 3M for the total count.

 

What do you think about these propositions now, considering one of the main issues of this year's WC was the lack of feeling like a country vs country competition ? I personally liked the idea of players joining foreign cos many players often don't find other ppl from their country, but it should have been more limited option in my opinion instead of being free for all with 0 consequences. 

 

On 10/15/2023 at 9:40 PM, awaLLz said:

Second, next WC7, This rule decision have to be managed by WC Police, not the team/players... it doesn't look sportsmanlike if they above to battle in the final tour,

even if this tour have money invested, the main purpose of this is to know who is the best country this year battling, not the best team winning like cowards (with all the respect to China) but this is what happen when you skip a duel cause everybody is comment with hate, you just need to shut their mouse.

Just to be clear, WC police of this year did not have any power of decision over this specific case, we were just here to make rules against cheating and stuff. This was for host/staff to be there. Imo we should just merge police and staff next time cos we just lack enough people and its too hard on host to do it all alone (we can thank gb for big job he did but it would be preferable to have actual competent and active co hosts). 

[Poufilou]

7 minutes ago, Poufilou said:

The cap prevents from putting too many foreign members as they need a good % of mandatory donators to be qualified

I forgot to re-mention it but this works because of another proposition concerning final scoring of teams which would prioritise first the amount of mandatory donators and secondly the donation amount. Which results in the more a team has money and has chance to qualify = the more players from its country there are. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Poufilou

[Eipott]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:58 PM, gbwead said:

My thoughts:

• WC6 Group Stage was too short. 3 weeks of Round Robin is not enough.
• I believe a Group Stage structure where more than 50% of each pool goes into the playoffs could be better and would reduce the chances of teams being eliminated after only 2 weeks. 
  • There should also be a clear plan when it comes to potential tie breakers in the group stage.
• A campaign phase in the preseason gives us imo more solid teams for the event overall imo and a better cash prize
  • The term "Mandatory Donator" is confusing, something like "Patriots" would be more appropriate imo.
  • Teams that do not enter the event should only get a portion of their donations back, not 100%.
  • Qualifiers tournaments should be reworked, so they are more flexible.
• Perhaps a limit of players per team would be a good thing. If there is no limit of players, there should be more than 6/5 duels per week. 
• I personally enjoyed the Snake Draft for the constitution of each group in the Group Stage. I think each Group was pretty balanced imo. 
• Rules regarding substitutions should be more defined going into a season. I personally believe substitution should be limited in some manner, but I'm not sure how.
• I'm not sure if WC Police / WC Staff is a great structure. I believe it could be reworked in something better.
• I'm happy with all the duels that got recorded and I hope future hosts will support players that want to record.
  • Rules regarding who records which duel should be clear going into the season to avoid any confusion and having multiple recordings for the same duel.
• I'm not someone very active on betting threads, but I think the Betting Club reduced the amount of players getting "scammed" compared to other seasons.

 I think you should do the Snake Draft for Groups after finishing player signups, since some players were added late to countries they never played before.

 

Also groups with 4 teams sucked, especially if you get both finalists in your group.

 

Last point: Imo you can't void games at all if there is no obvious win trading or trolling happening. You gave China the playoff Spot when they were 4:0 ahead when Mexico might have been able to make the 4:2 happen for a tiebreak scenario.

 

But these are small points:

 

The overall organisation and hosting was great and I enjoyed this wc a lot more than the others: Clear communication, always posting stuff in time, good ideas for increasing the prize pool and recording.

 

Thx for this!

[gbwead]

@pokemmostaff

 

All World Cup 6 Threads can be closed, but please leave this one open until next year.

[kiwi]

Teams consist of eight starters, four substitutes, and two captains.

In this first round, players will be placed into groups of four, where they will battle all three of their opponents. Divisions will be assigned randomly and each team will play each other team at least once and not more than twice.

Six points will be awarded for first place, four for second place, and two for third place in a division. If there is a tie for any position, the total number of points between those two positions will be split equally among the tied parties. For example, if two people are tied for first place, they will split ten (six for first + four for second) points between them for a total of five points each.

Teams will be ranked based on records, rather than points. This means the eight teams with the best records will qualify for the quarter finals of the World Cup of Pokémon 2022. If two or more teams within the top seven have identical records, points will be used to sort out the tiebreaks. However, if there is a tie in records for the last spot, points will be ignored and the teams will face off in a tiebreak series. The tiebreak will consist of three games (Bo3).

 

pretty much a copypaste from smogon format but i think that would help smaller teams and u could do a short group stage (2-3weeks) too, this also solves what eipott pointed out. with this system better teams would advance anyway and the issue of being in a stacked group wont exist and teams in the quarterfinals will be the stronger teams in the competition and not the ones with a lucky group

i loved the idea of picking ur opponents so this could still also apply here and each head group could pick their first opponent and so on

i know ive explained myself really bad but if this gets interest from the host ill elaborate further and actually try to make it digestible