OU Viability Thread

[DrCraig]

I get Ursaring for B+, but IMO Machamp does not deserve the B rank. Ursaring outclasses him in his task as Ursaring is way better at wall breaking with Normal STAB + coverage, Whereas Machamp has a SAB that is easily walled by most physical walls. Machamp has the niche of OHKOing the big Spdef walls but it can't break through physical cores. Ursaring can do both and has a way better tool for wallbreaking in Swords Dance.

 

Ursaring B+

Machamp C I'd say

Yea agreed, Machamp's STAB has more issues then Ursa's imo. Doesn't have the big hitting moves and set up Ursa does either. Needs the support, C.

[Vaeldras]

I get Ursaring for B+, but IMO Machamp does not deserve the B rank. Ursaring outclasses him in his task as Ursaring is way better at wall breaking with Normal STAB + coverage, Whereas Machamp has a SAB that is easily walled by most physical walls. Machamp has the niche of OHKOing the big Spdef walls but it can't break through physical cores. Ursaring can do both and has a way better tool for wallbreaking in Swords Dance.

 

Ursaring B+

Machamp C I'd say

 

Ursaring is better than machamp at breaking walls and can setup on weezing, that's true, but machamp (with the focus lense set) can prevent snorlax from ever waking up, or just save you from a sweeping curselax with a bit of luck (50% crit ratio without using focus energy iirc).

Also better defensive typing and better chances of taking down anything not named weezing/dusclops (lol)

Edit: ghosts in general, wish it had something like crunch.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Vaeldras

[OrangeManiac]

I think C for Machamp is a bit too low due to the meta (normal fatsos, especially breaking Curselax and therefor fills an important role) and that it's not easy to fully counter. But well, being hard to counter is common to any Choice Bander so yeah..

[ThinkNice]

I think C for Machamp is a bit too low due to the meta (normal fatsos, especially breaking Curselax and therefor fills an important role) and that it's not easy to fully counter. But well, being hard to counter is common to any Choice Bander so yeah..

heracross again fills that role much better than Champ tho. It faces a lot of competition from arguably more effective Pokemon

[NikhilR]

With pokes like slowbro / weezing out there, Machamp isn't that great imo. Moreover when you have a 120 base stab move with chances of reducing your attk and def by one stage it sucks considering how you can boost it only by one stage itself, which imo is the biggest reason for Champ not being as effective as Ursa. I tried my best using Champ but it unfortunately isn't that good.

 

Ursaring has become a total boss with SD+punches. It sets up on walls like Blissey / Weezing / Skarm with so much ease and you know that when it is out there, something is about to go down. 

 

I agree with Think's ratings for Ursa as B+ and Machamp as C. 

[DoubleJ]

Hmmm this thing is empty. Lf Ursaring at B

[ThinkNice]

Update:

Machamp: Unranked -> C

Ursaring: Unranked -> B+

[tomagotchi]

Any opinions on Swampert's grade?

[codylramey]

Great bulk, great atk, only one weakness. Can take down common OU pokes and even be a defense against the all mighty curselax. Id give it a B at the very least.

[DoubleJ]

With a bulk up it 2hkos slowbro and can live a stab se psychic.

Machamp purty good.

[RysPicz]

OU isn't really my tier and I don't play it often, but I'll allow myself to post some opinions, based on what I've experienced and seen in today's oceanic OU:

 

Jolteon: Solid A+ or even S. Without Lax and Bliss, there is a handful of pokes that are capable of stopping it reliably. Only P2 and... Chansey are reliable switch-ins for it. This was literally EVERYWHERE today, in every OU battle I spectated or played. Shame I didn't have one myself to use D:

 

Gengar: This, imo, already should've been S, even before the bans. Only reliable switch-in for the special attacker now is Umbreon, SDef Ludi gets destroyed with Sludge bomb while rest of tier takes chunks from Shadow Ball, Tbolt and others.

 

P2: Right now it's the most reliable switch in for Jolt which is literally everywhere and imo, should be moved to at least A.

 

I feel like the whole viability list got turned upside down. This is how huge influence on whole OU had only 2 pokes. Before, special attackers were not viable at all, now I feel like their viability is above everything else. Rain/ Sun teams might shine once again, but I don't feel like the decision of banning 2 fat walls from OU has helped it in any way.

With them it's bad, without them it's even worse. I'm afraid that only update with some new moves, abilities etc etc etc might change anything but I'm not really knowledgeable about future gens and what they bring along, so all I can do for now is only hope.

[NikhilR]

Gard is also quite nice for Jolteon, 4fie. 

[RysPicz]

Gard is also quite nice for Jolteon, 4fie. 

Oh right, missed it. How could I, my fav poke...

 

EDIT:

Gard still gets shrekt with Fake Tears set as most of them carry Shadow Ball thus it's less reliable than P2

Edited June 21, 2015 by RysPicz

[Gunthug]

Damn, slept through the entire tournament. What about the special wall situation, forf (or anyone else who was there)? Did any stand out as the most used, or did you see a steady rotation of ludi/umbreon/venu/pory2/gard?

[RysPicz]

Damn, slept through the entire tournament. What about the special wall situation, forf (or anyone else who was there)? Did any stand out as the most used, or did you see a steady rotation of ludi/umbreon/venu/pory2/gard?

I actually seen all of them being used as sdef walls in there, seems like P2 and Venu were most often used but let's wait for official usage, I went off somewhere in the middle to work on hoenn guide (surprise, right)

[ThinkNice]

I won't update the viabilities until the bans are confirmed/unconfirmed. But until then metagame discussion should happen here.

[RysPicz]

But until then metagame discussion should happen here.

For me, current OU looks much more broken even more than it was before the bans. Jolteon sees practically 100% usage, this is definitely not a healthy meta and amount of sign ins did not surprise me either (bracket was not full), though it wasn't in time that is comfortable for the majority of players.

[Vaeldras]

Jolteon has always been a problem to me, only blissey could stop it effectively sometimes.

While hp grass is (imo) superior to ice atm it's really rare to see someone running it, so swampert should be a pretty safe switch in too.

[bl0nde]

My chansey just got out plainly overpowered by an espeon from full health. I was dominating team vs team and the espeon switched in going for a revenge kill. It then calm minded on my switch. I didn't toxic it because I thought: substitute. I guess i'm trained to think that from the old days? So I started seismic tossing it and healing here and there, but It turned out to have some slight HP investment. Still, got it low on health to a OHKO -> then (yes xD) the morning sun. At this point, "oh crap" is the expression running through my mind. So, it's at +3 and I decide then I need to toxic it. You can guess what happens now, by the time it died of poison, I didn't have enough team left to kill the last 2 hurt team mates my opponent had and yep that was the game.

 

So, admittedly it is a situation where it could have gone differently. However, I just think it's kind of funny that the (arguably) best defense I can get simply gets overpowered in certain scenarios. Normally I would have whirlwinded that espeon out.

 

Yes, I do have an umbreon in my box, but I wouldn't send it in on an espeon anyway because signal beam paranoia. I wouldn't send in a gardevoir either because shadow ball paranoia. Both are low odds to run into but I play for dependability - not that I should be because dugtrio will take out my chansey anyway. Maybe I am in the wrong game and stubborn to admit it.

 

[just some passing thoughts]

 

edit:

oh god raaidn is in vermillion. I can't be bothered to try to stop his jolteon and espeon (lol).

Edited June 21, 2015 by bl0nde

[Arimanius]

That's why houndoom, umbreon, aerodactyl, swellow and hell even crobat exist. also, chansey best defense? please, chansey is just set up bait as u noticed

[codylramey]

Signal beam is very common on espy bc it hits most of its switch ins and is the easiest espy set to obtain, Fast offense stops espy tho, dugtrio aero. Arc can revenge kill with espeed or str8 up kill with crunch if you dont let it get too many calm minds. That situation blonde you just played badly xD. Altho espy is a great poke and can be very dangerous.

 

Jolt can also be stopped by arc i believe. Not gonna calc so i may be wrong but i know i have killed jolts with arc b4.

[Arimanius]

Signal beam is very common on espy bc it hits most of its switch ins and is the easiest espy set to obtain, Fast offense stops espy tho, dugtrio aero. Arc can revenge kill with espeed or str8 up kill with crunch if you dont let it get too many calm minds. That situation blonde you just played badly xD. Altho espy is a great poke and can be very dangerous.
 
Jolt can also be stopped by arc i believe. Not gonna calc so i may be wrong but i know i have killed jolts with arc b4.

0 Atk Arcanine ExtremeSpeed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 50-59 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- 92% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 87-103 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So yeah it can give u a kill since arca is faster with Extreme, same thing happen with espeon unless hp or def investment but crunch does the job if not too much calm minds or sp def investment in arca, we do know they're good but if u get in a situation where u let them set up like that then it wasn't a good game

[codylramey]

cant come in on tbolts like i thought he did. Maybe spcl bulk is the way to go in this meta tho.

[Vaeldras]

You can't safely stop a 130 base speed with sub and swagger ;_;

Any clue on zard? i really wanted to test it, but i've been busy with breeding.

[codylramey]

You can't safely stop a 130 base speed with sub and swagger ;_;

Any clue on zard? i really wanted to test it, but i've been busy with breeding.

Have a feeling sunnybeam can be very dangerous once ludi is weak.