[UU Discussion] Chansey [Moved to UU]

[Shaniqualela]

 

There's no way it's too strong for UU.

 

There are many many many strong fighting types (Machamp, Breloom, Hitmonlee, etc) and other strong physical attackers (Marowak, Armaldo?, Bellyzard) 

 

It also has 0 offensive pressure. It can't effectively run a CM set like blissey can in OU, so its only forms of damage are Seismic Toss and toxic, and toxic is risky with guts machamp and hariyama. Also, if it does toxic something theres good heal bell/aroma users in UU (vileplume, umbreon)

Edited February 22, 2015 by LeTyrone

[DaftCoolio]

can we just not

[DieMirin69]

[Robofiend]

252+ Atk Choice Band Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 188-224 (52.6 - 62.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

lol

 

For the record, I don't think I'd mind Chansey too much. It's a staller in a tier full of really offensive pokemon and it lacks the right coverage moves (and attacking stats) to be anything but a cleric. It'd be a good stop to special sweepers like Alakazam and Espeon (alternatively, we could just ban them) and it'd help to breathe some life into stall, which is mostly a dead playstyle in UU with all these super sweepers running around.

[Rigamorty]

I sincerely agree.

252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 408-482 (114.2 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 360-424 (100.8 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 412-486 (115.4 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Hariyama Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 386-456 (108.1 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Hariyama Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 386-456 (108.1 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252 Atk Charizard Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 370-436 (103.6 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

zard can get to that +6 easy considering it can belly drum on chansey pretty much for free without it being able to kill, toxic would be its only choice, but if zard subs it's all ogre.

 

also diglett exists.

[axx]

chansey can join the power creep too

252+ Atk Chansey Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aggron on a critical hit: 148-176 (102 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Chansey Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aggron: 108-128 (74.4 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[Shaniqualela]

252+ Atk Choice Band Hitmonchan Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 188-224 (52.6 - 62.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

lol

For the record, I don't think I'd mind Chansey too much. It's a staller in a tier full of really offensive pokemon and it lacks the right coverage moves (and attacking stats) to be anything but a cleric. It'd be a good stop to special sweepers like Alakazam and Espeon (alternatively, we could just ban them) and it'd help to breathe some life into stall, which is mostly a dead playstyle in UU with all these super sweepers running around.

It doesn't even really stop alakazam lol. zam only needs to cm to +3 to beat it and can recover off any seismic toss damage easily

chansey can join the power creep too
252+ Atk Chansey Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aggron on a critical hit: 148-176 (102 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Chansey Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aggron: 108-128 (74.4 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I really don't see this happening like ever lol Edited February 19, 2015 by cgaribaldi94

[RysPicz]

252 Atk WEELEE Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 734-866 (104.2 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 488-576 (136.6 - 161.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 244-288 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

If Chansey is stupid enough to use toxic...

 

252 Atk Choice Band Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 391-462 (109.5 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

EDIT:

 

accidently sent it before writing whole post lol gonna edit in a sec

 

EDIT2:

 

ok it's legit now

 

Skump would love this thread btw. Lf sfSkump

Edited February 19, 2015 by RysPicz

[DoubleJ]

#bringdownChansey

[OldKeith]

There was no solid reason to put it in the BL in the first place. Just Senile being silly about it.

[Kizhaz]

Chansey gets destroyed by every hard hitting physical attacker theres no denying it, same goes for blissey. It's the fact that it can single-handedly stop any pressure from any special attacking pokemon. It's only weakness is to a type with only physical moves other than hp and it basically turns the meta into who's got the scariest choice band. As long as we have all these pokemon like machamp in UU it just may see a place in the tier, but most likely all of those pokemon will be moved to BL which puts Chansey in the same boat. I personally wouldn't wan't to see Chansey in UU as I believe it will be very overcentralising as easily the best special wall in the tier.

[PandaJJ]

Chansey gets destroyed by every hard hitting physical attacker theres no denying it, same goes for blissey. It's the fact that it can single-handedly stop any pressure from any special attacking pokemon. It's only weakness is to a type with only physical moves other than hp and it basically turns the meta into who's got the scariest choice band. As long as we have all these pokemon like machamp in UU it just may see a place in the tier, but most likely all of those pokemon will be moved to BL which puts Chansey in the same boat. I personally wouldn't wan't to see Chansey in UU as I believe it will be very overcentralising as easily the best special wall in the tier.

 

There is no reason to ban chansey because it might be banworthy in the future - if it's not banworthy now, it should't be banned. Besides, it doesn't stop any special attacker just like that:

 

252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 85-102 (26 - 31.2%) -- 10.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 169-201 (51.8 - 61.6%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Note that psychic has a chance to drop special defense, and that alakazam has synchronize (so if chansey uses toxic, it will have to use aromatherapy to heal itself of toxic too). Since Alakazam also has access to signal beam/shadow ball, you do not want to let it set up, if you value the life of your other pokemon.

[BurntZebra]

but growl chansey

[OldKeith]

I would go as far as saying Chansey would not see much usage in UU, just because Clefable is much better.

[BurntZebra]

I would go as far as saying Chansey would not see much usage in UU, just because Clefable is much better.

How is it much better? The standard set for clef was wish/protect/aroma/seismic toss and chansey can run the same moveset but not be forced out by special attackers and gets natural cure so it isn't forced to aroma every time it switches in on a toxic. 

[OldKeith]

How is it much better? The standard set for clef was wish/protect/aroma/seismic toss and chansey can run the same moveset but not be forced out by special attackers and gets natural cure so it isn't forced to aroma every time it switches in on a toxic. 

 

Because it has a higher defense, because it has access to special attacks too and a decent special attack base.

[BurntZebra]

Because it has a higher defense, because it has access to special attacks too and a decent special attack base.

252+ SpA Chansey Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Marowak: 68-82 (50.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>not running 252 sp atk/252 speed lucky punch chansey

252+ SpA Chansey Psychic vs. 32 HP / 16 SpD Machamp: 62-74 (36.6 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

[YagamiNoir]

Unless all this offensive Chansey stuff is suddenly a serious thing, I speculatively find it pretty limited as a wall apart from the flat, powerful stats. Then again, UU is much too offensive at the moment to properly determine anything.

[codylramey]

Tbh I think that as a tiering method bringing down chansey makes sense. Even if it is going to just get moved back up. Since we have the split whos to say chansey wont be a good fit in the tier even after things like machamp gets banned. 

[fredrichnietze]

There was no solid reason to put it in the BL in the first place. Just Senile being silly about it.

every single person in the room voted to ban chansey. while yes as UU is now with champ/marrowak/hitmonlee/belly char/ect.... in it chansey is not broken. however if you try out UU how it is now, you will quickly see it's broken. it's still a work in progress and many things are going to get the hammer in the coming weeks/months. we can talk about bringing things down later once we are done getting rid of the soon(tm) to be BL's. 

[JSTUD]

People trying to make UU a stall meta too.

[codylramey]

every single person in the room voted to ban chansey. while yes as UU is now with champ/marrowak/hitmonlee/belly char/ect.... in it chansey is not broken. however if you try out UU how it is now, you will quickly see it's broken. it's still a work in progress and many things are going to get the hammer in the coming weeks/months. we can talk about bringing things down later once we are done getting rid of the soon(tm) to be BL's. 

Yes but she isnt a problem the way it is now. Which means that she shouldnt be banned now. If when a lot of the physical attackers get banned and shes a problem then she can be banned then. At least thats the way i see the system should work.

[fredrichnietze]

Yes but she isnt a problem the way it is now. Which means that she shouldnt be banned now. If when a lot of the physical attackers get banned and shes a problem then she can be banned then. At least thats the way i see the system should work.

is espeon a problem in a meta with chansey everywhere? maybe but probably not. is espeon is a problem with no chansey everywhere? maybe maybe not but we cant know question #2 when chansey is everywhere. the point of doing things the way we are is to test things out. if a large number of special pokemon are made non viable due to chansey then how will we know if they are broken in UU without it? chansey will get tested later down the road (unless we ban all the physical attackers) if i have a say, im just saying not yet.

[codylramey]

is espeon a problem in a meta with chansey everywhere? maybe but probably not. is espeon is a problem with no chansey everywhere? maybe maybe not but we cant know question #2 when chansey is everywhere. the point of doing things the way we are is to test things out. if a large number of special pokemon are made non viable due to chansey then how will we know if they are broken in UU without it? chansey will get tested later down the road (unless we ban all the physical attackers) if i have a say, im just saying not yet.

The point is consistency. There are many pokes on the UU list that are obviously OP and need banning why not just quick ban them? Like you said you cant know what the meta is like with or with out x pokemon, which is why i feel like its important to be consistent. I can understand quick banning something if its obvious that it will be a problem in the new meta that was created but quick banning something bc its going to be a problem in what the meta could possibly become in the future just seems like bad policy. 

 

Also to say a large number of spcl pokemon would be made unviable with chansey is a flawed statement. First like you said we cnt know what would happen. Second by that logic then a large number of spcl pokemon would be made unviable with blissey in OU who is stronger and walls harder. Not to mention that in OU spcl pokes give snorlax, who can rek pokes, a free switch in. Like i said we cant know what would happen but i do see a major flaw in that statement.

[Shaniqualela]

+3 252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chansey: 184-217 (51.5 - 60.7%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(184, 186, 189, 190, 193, 195, 196, 199, 201, 204, 205, 208, 210, 213, 214, 217)

With morning sun and heal bell it won't lose to toxic or seismic toss. Chansey loses 1v1. All it can do is sponge the hit and get set up on, (just like umbreon)