UU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[pachima]

I could actually send calcs of at least 3 pokemon that can be used in UU that wall hariyama, but I won´t cuz I dont want hari in UU either.

EDIT: ez king

Edited January 8, 2017 by pachima

[Argorok2017]

1 minute ago, pachima said:

I could actually send calcs of at least 3 pokemon that can be used in UU that wall hariyama, but I won´t cuz I dont want hari in UU either.

EDIT: ez king

yes yes you already said in team chat, Arbok/Solrock/Misdreavus. But if you read this guy's first post, he states he wants it so we don't have stall wars anymore. If anything those 3 poke will promote stall wars even more

[LifeStyle]

Spanish people and their hate for walls is real

[Argorok2017]

Just now, LifeStyle said:

Spanish people and their hate for walls is real

Repost like 30 times

[pachima]

1 minute ago, Argorok2017 said:

yes yes you already said in team chat, Arbok/Solrock/Misdreavus. But if you read this guy's first post, he states he wants it so we don't have stall wars anymore. If anything those 3 poke will promote stall wars even more

 

 

 

 

fck u, don´t reveal my tricks.

On another note, can we have a discussion for donphan? It can be walled by meganium and exeggutor, but besides those there aren´t any safe checks (not to count sturdy and lack of flying/levitators in the tier)

[LifeStyle]

1 minute ago, pachima said:

On another note, can we have a discussion for donphan? It can be walled by meganium and exeggutor, but besides those there aren´t any safe checks (not to count sturdy and lack of flying/levitators in the tier)

no

[Argorok2017]

Just now, LifeStyle said:

no

you aren't even part of the council, at least give some argument :P

[DiDi]

1 hour ago, JerichoGamer2 said:

IGN: Jerichogamer

convincing argument, im sold
 

[JerichoGamer2]

2 minutes ago, Argorok2017 said:

WHY WOULD YOU KEEP HARI IN ON JYNX???

Oh and if you want to change Altaria to DD user, oh great it has a super small chance of 2HKOing Hari, guess what bub? Hari's TPunch also 2HKOs, his Ice Punch OHKOs, you already lost that matchup as Altaria.

LO Oma is not going to kill Hari considering if you sacrifice defensive stats to go sweeper Hari now OHKOs him.

Trying to get Hari into UU is never going to happen because it has too much of an offensive presence and the tier council will not allow it as they have said in the past.

Yes ... and so fuck all having duels of 60 minutes seeing as 1 cradily and 1 miltank fight to get a critic or even use combat ... that kind of duel you like? That's the only thing they are looking for in a duel?

Well well ... if that's okay ... but I just say that tier uu could be more interesting. And if it goes to the case you would not put an altaria wall in front of hariyama xD (so you decide on jynx)

Anyway ... hariyama is strong? Yes, it is for uu, but since they went up to haunter and kanghaskan.la tier is only wall and that bores ....

If they went back down to those 2 + hariyama would resume the metagame before.Is this wrong? XD

[pachima]

1 minute ago, JerichoGamer2 said:

Yes ... and so fuck all having duels of 60 minutes seeing as 1 cradily and 1 miltank fight to get a critic or even use combat ... that kind of duel you like? That's the only thing they are looking for in a duel?

Well well ... if that's okay ... but I just say that tier uu could be more interesting. And if it goes to the case you would not put an altaria wall in front of hariyama xD (so you decide on jynx)

Anyway ... hariyama is strong? Yes, it is for uu, but since they went up to haunter and kanghaskan.la tier is only wall and that bores ....

If they went back down to those 2 + hariyama would resume the metagame before.Is this wrong? XD

 

plz, 6 life balls in UU all the time.

Ppl just use walls cause its the safest and easiest strategy to play in this game, but offense is pretty viable, especially in UU with so many 4xweaknesses walls.

[Argorok2017]

3 minutes ago, JerichoGamer2 said:

Yes ... and so fuck all having duels of 60 minutes seeing as 1 cradily and 1 miltank fight to get a critic or even use combat ... that kind of duel you like? That's the only thing they are looking for in a duel?

Well well ... if that's okay ... but I just say that tier uu could be more interesting. And if it goes to the case you would not put an altaria wall in front of hariyama xD (so you decide on jynx)

Anyway ... hariyama is strong? Yes, it is for uu, but since they went up to haunter and kanghaskan.la tier is only wall and that bores ....

If they went back down to those 2 + hariyama would resume the metagame before.Is this wrong? XD

Putting an offensive characteristic uber pokemon down into a tier to stop walling DOES NOT determine whether a pokemon should move down a tier after it's already been pushed up for offensive uber. If you don't like it, oh well.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Argorok2017

[JerichoGamer2]

Haha I am not Spanish, I am Argentine and I do not hate walls ... I just think that the uu tier is the saddest (in the sense that it always ends up being the same fight)...bored

[Argorok2017]

 

4 minutes ago, JerichoGamer2 said:

Haha I am not Spanish, I am Argentine and I do not hate walls ... I just think that the uu tier is the saddest (in the sense that it always ends up being the same fight)...bored

Well adding an offensive uber into the tier that will be overcentralized is not the answer to this problem. Nice try on the argument though.

 

IGN: xVolvagiax

[pachima]

1 minute ago, JerichoGamer2 said:

Haha I am not Spanish, I am Argentine and I do not hate walls ... I just think that the uu tier is the saddest (in the sense that it always ends up being the same fight)...bored

 

sadly its tru, but you should change community mentality, not tier itself.

Still looking for donphan discussion. (I feel that donphan is in part responsible for the wallish mentality of the tier)

Why:

1- its wallbreaking abilities are close to Hariyama´s (but the latter should keep OU imo) This leads to ppl using more and more walls to be able to effectively check that shit.

2- Unlike other banded user like scizor, azuma, etc. Donphan can actually exert too much pressure on offensive threats via sturdy. (Consequence, less offensive tier and more wallish one)

Thats all I think, feel free to disagree.

[Torinnnnn]

UU is trash 

 

IGN Torinnnnn

[Argorok2017]

Just now, Torinnnnn said:

UU is trash 

 

IGN Torinnnnn

Tor ur bad

 

IGN xVolvagiax

[LifeStyle]

2 minutes ago, Argorok2017 said:

you aren't even part of the council, at least give some argument :P

Physically Defensive Meganium/Exeggutor completely wall any CB move coming from Donphan, you have shit like Misdreavus who only fears a 3hko from Rock Slide, you have Tentacruel/Jynx/Lapras/Azumarill/Crawdaunt who are faster and can OHKO it and also a bunch of stuff (Nidoking/Nidoqueen/Ninetales/Absol/Manectric/etc)  who can KO it when it's in like 70-80% HP. It's not something that gets a lot of opportunities to switch in either since you're gonna try to keep the Sturdy on it (gg spike teams).

Humm basically, CB Donphan is an amazing lead since sturdy already gives you 1st turn momentum, stab EQ hurts like shit if you bring something that doesn't resist it (as it should), defo not ban-worthy tho, those Altaria+Quag cores completely kek on it.

[Crazyhell]

1 hour ago, JerichoGamer2 said:

252+ Atk Altaria Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 108 Def Hariyama: 98-116 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- 21.1% chance to 2HKO (Altaria DD)
252+ Atk Scizor Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 108 Def Hariyama: 98-116 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Crobat Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 108 Def Hariyama: 152-182 (69.4 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

WTFFFFFFFFFF WHO PLAY Crobat CB and  AERIAL ACE ????? plz stop troll

[pachima]

2 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

Physically Defensive Meganium/Exeggutor completely wall any CB move coming from Donphan, you have shit like Misdreavus who only fears a 3hko from Rock Slide, you have Tentacruel/Jynx/Lapras/Azumarill/Crawdaunt who are faster and can OHKO it and also a bunch of stuff (Nidoking/Nidoqueen/Ninetales/Absol/Manectric/etc)  who can KO it when it's in like 70-80% HP. It's not something that gets a lot of opportunities to switch in either since you're gonna try to keep the Sturdy on it (gg spike teams).

Humm basically, CB Donphan is an amazing lead since sturdy already gives you 1st turn momentum, stab EQ hurts like shit if you bring something that doesn't resist it (as it should), defo not ban-worthy tho, those Altaria+Quag cores completely kek on it.

 

I feel this is not relevant at all, since hari is at the same stake as you are saying now. You just said that there are only 2 safe checks for donphan and cores can effectively check it but the same can be applied to hari and its banned for a reason.

If your argument is that cores of 3/4 mons can wall donphan then im afraid its overcentralization all over again.

[BurntZebra]

24 minutes ago, pachima said:

I feel this is not relevant at all, since hari is at the same stake as you are saying now. You just said that there are only 2 safe checks for donphan and cores can effectively check it but the same can be applied to hari and its banned for a reason.

If your argument is that cores of 3/4 mons can wall donphan then im afraid its overcentralization all over again.

Hariyama could easily run bulk up, then it can choose whatever move it wants without being locked into anything. Donphan is pretty much forced to run choice band to actually 2hko relevant threats (and still gets walled by meganium eternally). It can't boost attack either and lacks a lot of coverage compared to hariyama. This is also why rhydon was a lot more powerful than donphan, since it had a better movepool+the ability to boost its attack. 

[LifeStyle]

32 minutes ago, pachima said:

I feel this is not relevant at all, since hari is at the same stake as you are saying now. You just said that there are only 2 safe checks for donphan and cores can effectively check it but the same can be applied to hari and its banned for a reason.

If your argument is that cores of 3/4 mons can wall donphan then im afraid its overcentralization all over again.

Yeah we should ban Swampert from OU then, since only Gyarados/Ludicolo wall the CB set without needing to resort to defensive cores.

As for Haryiama, not only it has Guts which makes it almost impossible to wall when statused, it has priority in Fake Out which can be annoying for any weakened sweeper and it has Bulk Up which can set up on most walls. If you slap a Life Orb on it with the amazing coverage it has access too, you can basically destroy every wall who isn't named Quag/Misd. Only way Donphan puts pressure on a team is by being locked to a single move with a CB. Also don't forget the sheer bulk makes it way harder for almost any faster poke (literally only Jynx/Exegg can ohko it) to try and revenge kill it which will probably result in that sweeper getting killed while just managing to do a chunk of damage against Hariyama.

Or you know, Hariyama just switches out and comes back again later to kill more shit.

Edited January 8, 2017 by LifeStyle

[RysPicz]

Waaait, did you really guys try discussing Hariyama in UU?

12 hours ago, JerichoGamer2 said:

Yes ... and so fuck all having duels of 60 minutes seeing as 1 cradily and 1 miltank fight to get a critic or even use combat ... that kind of duel you like? That's the only thing they are looking for in a duel?

Well well ... if that's okay ... but I just say that tier uu could be more interesting. And if it goes to the case you would not put an altaria wall in front of hariyama xD (so you decide on jynx)

Anyway ... hariyama is strong? Yes, it is for uu, but since they went up to haunter and kanghaskan.la tier is only wall and that bores ....

If they went back down to those 2 + hariyama would resume the metagame before.Is this wrong? XD

The situation you're talking about comes from my own match so let me elaborate a little.

For some weird reason you are assuming that this one situation from my match is common. Well, it's not. I'm one of most active UU players you will see around, not only in tournaments itself, but also as a spectator (but that's when I'm late to the tournament or prize isn't appealing enough). In the timespan of like 4 months, I saw only 2 battles like that: OrangeManiac's vs SoyHector and mine vs Wiriketchup. Those battles happened because of the meta being shit? Not really. It's because one of us (in first example soyhector, who was incredibly lucky and his Miltank did beat Cradily, in second it was me) fucked up teambuilding and did not prepare even a check for one of the most threatening pokes in our UU.

I totally do not understand your argument with Haunter- it went up by usage. Kanga got banned because of it's unhealthy effect on the metagame which was reflected in usage stats. I don't understand how you can complain about "tier is only walls" when Kanga, primary sdef wall in the tier with over 40% of usage got out of it.

 

The way I understand it, is that you want to bring a broken poke to check some other problematic pokes. That's not how tiering should work, I have problems dealing with Chansey in OU but I don't wanna ask and argue about bringing down Dugtrio or Dragonite which would completely break the tier.

 

 

UU is wallish not because of the pokes which are in it but because of players who play the tier, I feel like I'm repeating myself. Guerinf (HAPPY BIRTHDAY), Arimanius, Orange and myself already proved that offensive teams can also work really well (and I belive that the fact of reaching 4 finals in 8 last played UU officials is the best proof of my statement). Just try to convince those spanish stall players that 5 walls + one CB/ Specs poke is not the only (and definietly not best) way of playing in UU.

[pachima]

y´all should hold your horses.

I never said hari best set is banded one. I agree that other sets like life ball, fake out, and bulk up can be of greater use.

My point is completely different and it seems you all missed it.

People were complaining that BANDED hariyama would be too op (Forget other sets, if we focus on only banded, people already complained it would already be broken in the tier)

My point is: Since banded donphan has almost same potential as banded hariyama, why is the latter (WITH CHOICE BAND) considered too op while donphan is not.

[RysPicz]

3 minutes ago, pachima said:

y´all should hold your horses.

I never said hari best set is banded one. I agree that other sets like life ball, fake out, and bulk up can be of greater use.

My point is completely different and it seems you all missed it.

People were complaining that BANDED hariyama would be too op (Forget other sets, if we focus on only banded, people already complained it would already be broken in the tier)

My point is: Since banded donphan has almost same potential as banded hariyama, why is the latter (WITH CHOICE BAND) considered too op while donphan is not.

Hariyama is generally op. I wish I could save replays from unrankeds so you could see what I was doing with Hariyama in OU- there are a lot more sets, even more powerful than just a shitty witty CB one xp

 

I think the biggest reason why Hari is much more potent with CB than Donphan is the movepool and their STABs. Hariyama's Fighting STAB Superpower has 30 more effective base power compared to Donphan, while Focus Punch has a whopping 75, dealing much more damage even on resisted switch-ins compared to Donphan. Their abilities are equally great so I don't want to elaborate on this part.

Regardless, Hariyama's access to elepunches, EQ/ RS and the STAB places it way over Donphan. Donph does have surefire counters in the tier- Meganium and Exeggutor are quite common, and they are not there just to stop Donphan. Hariyama on the other hand, wouldn't have a single safe switchin, making it a very potent offensive uber in the tier, not to mention that if you can predict getting a toxic from let's say, Altaria, Quagsire, Nidoqueen, Clefable, Slowking, (less safe switch) or Cradily (I wanna point out how many viable and common toxic users we got in the tier) then you're in for a serious trouble. While you play Donphan passively just so you will be able to keep it's Sturdy, you play Hariyama aggressively, switching it in often in hopes of toxic, and with it's bulk it is capable of taking a lot of blows.

 

Theorymoning, I see only 2 pokes viable enough to drop to UU: Kingdra (kinda on the line with it) and Pory2. And they won't drop cuz usage op, which is kinda shame, Pory would be freaking great out there yet far from unmanage-able

[LifeStyle]

JAJAJAJAJA VAPOREON JAJAJAJAJA