UU Viability Thread

[Arimanius]

Well yea, but it's one of those pokemon that could alter the meta for a beneficial change. It's a direct answer to the most common set on the most commonly used poke that is seen as being the most detrimental to the tier. I know it's shit though, but the peeps need to see it too. Steelix loses to Kanga 9 times out of 10, and Cradily needs Rest to topple the Kangster. 

 

Just my insight. 

 

I agree with jj here the thing about it is that is difficult to use since it needs an open door to switch in but a bulky cb aggron with ice punch can 2ko vile and exegg, with tpunch can 2ko a slowking, rock slide can give u some useful flinches to get a ko, it has a 4x resistance against normal types but yeah it's difficult to use indeed but I don't see steelix better than aggron or aggron better than steelix, it depends on your play style mostly in this particular case

[DoubleJ]

True, I guess Gron's access to Superpower is a selling point (vs. Kangu) compared to Steelix's reliance on Quake

 

Oh and those free turns awarded by Rest make it easier to come in as an Aggron.

 

And even if you aren't CB... SubPunch + Rock Slide + Ice Beam coverage poops on the tier. 

[Bestfriends]

ZDFire VS Elcoolio

 

Enjoy :D

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Bestfriends
Updated URL

[felix]

ZDFire VS Elcoolio

 

Enjoy :D

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsXMXa3uqH8&feature=youtu.be

next time try to not make those not funny and not relevant comments in the video, if you had someone to make competitive comments the video will be a lot better

[Bestfriends]

next time try to not make those not funny and not relevant comments in the video, if you had someone to make competitive comments the video will be a lot better

I plan to publish a video from CaptainGrey's tournament (the final match) and I let Jerry commentate instead of myself. The reason why I try to be comical is because I try to make people laugh while watching a match. If you want me to be informative, look at the semi final match ZDFire VS FlowX 1:40:21 - 2:013:18. I mention what in my opinion is what I call the "Blastoise-Breloom" flaw. I mention why Flow should of pulled out Breloom instead of Blastoise. I won't go into my reasoning in this response, but I will let you view it and let you make your inferences from there. It is important as an unbiased content maker to let people make their own decisions which is why I am pointing to the time marks.

[DoubleJ]

Can we get some discussion on scizor? I think it's been 4 uu tourneys since the test ban

[DrCraig]

Can we get some discussion on scizor? I think it's been 4 uu tourneys since the test ban

It hasn't been 4 tournaments. There's been 2 and there is one coming up on the 31st. I asked for more UU, but I haven't seen nothing. :(

[DoubleJ]

That is so gross. Rip UU.

[RysPicz]

It's not only about Scizor and UU itself, it's about OU as well. Nothing's been done about those tiers and that's why they are so goddamn shit, stagnant and hardly playable.

Lack of UU officials is another thing though.

 

Tiering is never going to be the same since Senile left, as much as he was a scumbag he was doing a pretty good job with that, plus the usage-based tiering is just disgusting in our pokemmo meta, we had unique tiering system that was actually working, now we got broken tiers that are hardly playable unless you love 100+ turn stall battles that usually last like 1h+.

[DrCraig]

I don't claim to represent the whole council here, but:
The old council set up this usage system and we have to deal with it pretty much. I can assure you we are constantly talking and try to make the tiers the best we can, but it isn't all sunshine and rainbows. There isn't one ban which solves everything, or one move that fixes the tier and miraculously makes everything 'good.' In the end we hope that our large community churns some ideas out too which are constructive rather than complaining about how 'it used to be good.' Frankly talking about last year isn't helping us deal with an incomplete Pokemon roster, incomplete mechanics, and lack of items in an MMO where competitive play is not considered the end game to the devs because we are simply a minority. As tier council we are not different from you by any means, so if we could be open minded and work together to deal with what we get thrown at us maybe we can have a better competitive and fun meta. The tiers are in tough places right now. Ultimately we're in the shit together so we should try to make the best of it.

UU tournaments please staff.

[Robofiend]

It's not only about Scizor and UU itself, it's about OU as well. Nothing's been done about those tiers and that's why they are so goddamn shit, stagnant and hardly playable.

Lack of UU officials is another thing though.

 

Tiering is never going to be the same since Senile left, as much as he was a scumbag he was doing a pretty good job with that, plus the usage-based tiering is just disgusting in our pokemmo meta, we had unique tiering system that was actually working, now we got broken tiers that are hardly playable unless you love 100+ turn stall battles that usually last like 1h+.

 

First, don't act like any of these metas were that enjoyable. Remember old UU where every team was Blast/Steelix/Plume/Fearow/Haunter? Old OU where every match was Salamence/Snorlax/Vaporen/Heracross/Weezing/etc.? Old NU? OU when we had Curselax or Dragonite or UU with Chansey in it? These metagames weren't fun or balanced, they were super centralized and sometimes even more stally than what we're dealing with now. While I do miss having Senile around, the inherent (and absurd) limitations of this game (no legendaries because fuck you, no Life Orb because fuck you, etc.) are really the enemy here, not the departure of Senile.

 

Usage based tiering is admittedly meh but remember that was Senile's idea more than anything - the fact that you're now praising him and complaining about usage-based tiering is the definition of talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

I think that the split is more to blame than anything, it resulted in some pokes being incredibly powerful (the Dragons, Snorlax, Scizor, Charizard, Gengar) and lots of other things becoming relatively useless and offenseless because of their poor coverage. That said, OU and UU have improved in variance since the ban train started moving.

[DoubleJ]

yawn, same old argument with the council trying to defend themselves over pointless banter. How about we actually just do some work and ignore nonsensical posts. 

[Robofiend]

yawn, same old argument with the council trying to defend themselves over pointless banter. How about we actually just do some work and ignore nonsensical posts. 

 

I second this

 

There's really no point in bickering about whether the game sucks because of TC, better to focus our energy on making the game suck less

[XPLOZ]

Wanted to post this some time ago but i didn't take the time.

 

 

I think a ban of scizor would be a mistake. We can't deny that it is fucking strong, but it is just as strong in UU as Metagross is in OU. Both are needed in each tier because their type is healthy, we need those resistances. We can play Steelix, whose usage increased sharply, as we can play Forretress/Skarmony in OU, but this totally ruins offensive teams. I was playing some offensive teams in UU before and this is a pity to see how this is not viable anymore. This is funny because one of the arguments in favor of scizor's ban was that it is too strong in defensive teams. Wtf ? Do you even know what you are talking about ? Do you play offensive teams ?

You will tell me that offensive pokemons are stronger because we have that fast sweeper everywhere : Swellow. But open your eyes and see what teams we have now in UU : 5 stalls (with either omastar or steelix to stop swellow) and Swellow as revenge killer). You will see it at the end of the month with the usage, don't worry.

Scizor was so nice to temporize on resistances like Normal moves and to keep constant pressure. This is what offensive teams want to do, not bringing the ass of a fucking steelix with 200 defense BS. (Maybe Aggron is decent, need to look into it but you know, grind grind grind)

 

Also some comment about Kanga. Why this thing isn't discussed yet ? It is clearly cancer in UU, and much more than scizor imo. You want to play a special wall ? Don't worry, Kanga is your man. This monster has an insane coverage, a good offensive presence, an excellent bulk, no special weakness (except hp fighting...), a huge ability which let it stall a bit everything with rest... It is literraly in each team. And it's normal. Why would I play something else while i can play god ? (Even wish/protect set outclasses Clefable's one...). We have such difficulties to counter this thing. In the current meta, ice punch/eq/toxik/rest seems insane (rip aggron with eq btw), and people will adapt their movesets very soon. Scizor's ban further increases Kanga's power because it doesn't have to play fire punch and can improve his coverage.

It is not rare to see battles ending with some Kanga vs Kanga stall to death, which is pretty ridiculous. I hope a discussion will open soon because it is just cancer and it ruins variety of special walls.

Edited January 26, 2016 by XPLOZ

[Robofiend]

I like the input. I think everyone on the tier council is also skeptical of Swellow and Kangaskhan. I personally don't have a problem with seeing Scizor banned, however. With CB it was a total monster that could neuter offensive teams and help stall out even more with bulky sets. Not to mention that nearly everything had a Fire coverage move for it to limit its effect on the metagame - which isn't true of Metagross, who takes lots of damage from tons of common OU attacking types.

 

As for replacements, I still think the tier is adapting and that's why Swellow is such a huge force. Steelix can be fairly offensive as well with a Choice Band (though it's not on the same level as Scizor) and works decently as a wall. Aggron too has free switch ins on Normal spam, larger attack, a better movepool, and pretty decent synergy with lots of other UU pokes. Against the standard Kangaskhan sets, it only fears EQ, which can be dodged by using other pokemon, like Haunter (who's fearless against Kanga without Fire Punch or Crunch) and Vileplume, who takes even CB EQ's comfortably. Cradily is still relatively uncommon, in part because Curse sets without Rest fall to Toxic and in part because it's a huge pain to breed one, but its instant recovery and solid movepool are definitely underused. 

 

Swellow has become a big offensive threat, but I think that some checks to it are still under-utilized. It gives Haunter an almost guaranteed switch in, and while Haunter fears Houndoom, it can use its free turn to Sub/Disable (assuming a favorable speed tie) or just fire off a Sludge Bomb (or Focus Punch, lol). Misdreavus is a safer option that can parahax Houndoom. Misdreavus also might earn a spot on teams as a spinblocker, although again, it's threatened by Houndoom. Maybe it's the case that Swellow should be banned as well.

 

But I think Scizor's ultimately a case of "broken shit to check broken shit" - even though it's a great pivot, it's still incredibly strong and almost single handedly supported the dreaded 5 wall teams that were stagnating the metagame. While the current metagame might seem really centralized, I think part of the problem is that people still haven't gotten used to not having Scizor around and haven't yet learned to exploit Swellow. 

 

I'm down to hear more input, ty for post XPLOZ

[gbwead]

Just like XPLOZ said, sooner or later, people will change their moveset on Kanga. The standard Fire punch/Double-Edge/Toxic/rest set is no longer the standard set. Ice punch/Earthquake/Toxic/Rest gives perfect coverage in a scizorless meta. Neither Haunter nor Aggron can switch on Kanga. Vileplume can't stay in a losing match up against Kanga. Haunter doesn't learn Focus Punch.

 

Saying "Haunter is almost a guaranteed switch in on Swellow" is completly false: 

252+ Atk Choice Band Swellow Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haunter: 118-139 (98.3 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

 

UU has become a mindless race: whoever kills the omastar/steelix/aggron wins the game. This is not what a competitive tier should look like which is why I really dislike the Scizorless meta - even though I have never played Scizor before XD

[DoubleJ]

#banswellow

[DrCraig]

#banswellow

I'm aware that this may be semi-serious, and I'm also aware Manectric exists, but won't Fearow just take it's spot and do basically the same thing?

 

inb4 ban both

Edited January 30, 2016 by DrCraig

[DoubleJ]

I'm aware that this may be semi-serious, and I'm also aware Manectric exists, but won't Fearow just take it's spot and do basically the same thing?

 

inb4 ban both

 

You already hit the nail on the head, Fearow is a much riskier play considering it can't revenge kill or sweep to the extent that Swellow can, but you have to admit the tier is built around stopping Swellow right now (Kangaskhan aside). 

[Bestfriends]

Upon the request of Eggplant, I am going to release part 1 of the Sunday Night Scrimmage:

 

 

Due to network issues, the tournament had to be postponed so the finals had not occurred yet.

 

Update: The rest of the tournament was rescheduled to February 7th.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Bestfriends
Updated URL

[Bestfriends]

overToasted VS. Pachima

 

(This is the final part of the Sunday Night Scrimmage)

 

Enjoy! :)

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Bestfriends
Updated URL

[RysPicz]

I fucking told you Zangoose gon be a problem, with or without Sciz

[BurntZebra]

I fucking told you Zangoose gon be a problem, with or without Sciz

Scizor not gonna do much besides cb qa before its ohko'ed by +2 fire punch. Kind of funny how zangoose is extremely powerful in both NU and UU, although for some reason it's not used that much.

[Robofiend]

Sure, Zangoose is good, but I have trouble seeing how it'd be broken in UU, especially since Hitmonlee is now fairly useful with Slowking usage lower than ever. Someday the Bulk Up set will reign supreme in this wall filled tier.

[BurntZebra]

Sure, Zangoose is good, but I have trouble seeing how it'd be broken in UU, especially since Hitmonlee is now fairly useful with Slowking usage lower than ever. Someday the Bulk Up set will reign supreme in this wall filled tier.

Until zangoose outspeeds mach punch with +2 quick attack and ohkos hitmonlee