UU Viability Thread

[Viking]

Do people actually run crab hammer?

i do

[DrCraig]

Hitmonlee will be moved down tonight unless anybody has sufficient reason to keep it at its current rank.

[DrCraig]

Hitmonlee has been moved from A to B+.

 

The change is only minor, but nevertheless, Hitmonlee is trapped in a tier of walls. Hitmonlee is no longer a go to sweeper with the myriad of walls running around which take its STAB well (Slowking / Vileplume / Exeggutor / Altaria etc.) and many checks running around such as Tentacruel or Quagsire. There are a good bundle of faster sweepers and priority users which also suppress Hitmonlee's viability. No, Hitmonlee is not useless, Hitmonlee definitely has its use as a physical nuke, but it will now rest in B+ Rank Viability because it needs a bit more support then it previously did.

 

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[gbwead]

Hitmonlee getting moved down makes complete sense with Slowking in the tier. I think Azumarill should get moved down for the same reason.

 

With the recent bullet seed update, Cradily has been imo a successful counter to Manectric and has proven to be a serious threat thanks to curse/recover. It should probably get moved up.

[DrCraig]

\With the recent bullet seed update, Cradily has been imo a successful counter to Manectric and has proven to be a serious threat thanks to curse/recover. It should probably get moved up.

I couldn't agree more with Cradily becoming way more viable. The B Ranks are quite a mess right now and I'd definitely like to sort them out.

Edited November 30, 2015 by DrCraig

[MisterHide]

I think Altaria should be moved up to A rank, it got many good different sets

Natural cure allow it to rest and switch out to completly heal it up, its also do a good work as a heal beller

Dragon+fly makes altaria having ice type as the lone weakness, unless your opponent got another altaria with D-claw, making altaria resist to a lot of choice banders (superpower, waterfall, crabhammer, earthquake, bullet seed etc)

And the dragon dancer set should never be underestimate as it can sweep a large portion of the metagame, especially for late game sweep, and just have to use rest+switch out if it get in trouble

Edited November 30, 2015 by MisterHide

[Robofiend]

I agree with moving up cradiggly doodly and atariarino

[RysPicz]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread but I'd like to do it here.

 

I would like to suggest moving Sceptile down. It's speed might seem dangerous, as well as it's movepool, but average defensive stats along with typing that leaves it with plethora of weaknesses and the fact that it's outspeeded by Swellow + totally countered by omnipresent Plume might leave it with a chance of staying and helping in the tier which is full of walls.

What do you think?

[BurntZebra]

I'm still in favor of moving down sceptile as vileplume/exeggutor/scizor/swellow all are very common and cover a lot of sceptiles most common sets. And as we have established before, an annoying leech seed set is not Banworthy (see jumpluff nu discussion), so I don't see how sceptile can be considered offensive uber, although it could become more centralizing on teams and make people run plume even more often.

[DoubleJ]

And once again, if we are having a problem with a specific defensive core, moving a pokemon down that promotes that same core even further really won't solve many issues. 

 

As far as looking at usage though, it does seem apparent that Kangaskhan, Scizor, and Slowking all have seen premium usage lately. Does this help convince Robofiend that a meta without Slowking and Scizor is a better meta than we have now, or even avert from the idea that Vileplume should be the primary target of a ban since his primary premise was reliant on high Vileplume usage?

[DrCraig]

And once again, if we are having a problem with a specific defensive core, moving a pokemon down that promotes that same core even further really won't solve many issues.

Zebra ACTUALLY never pointed out a defensive core being a problem when suggesting Sceptile could be fine in UU. He never said it makes anything which could be consider OP, to be weaker. 'Twas merely a statement saying,"hey, I don't see why not do this."

On the topic of the problematic Pokemon, I don't see Vileplume as ever being one. Vileplume is pretty 1 dimensional these days; it is just solid enough to be a staple for the tier. It's a glue keeping a lot in check, but it doesn't step into any uber territory or unhealthy territory. Scizor on the other hand. Scizor is a centralizing beast with its tanky offense which covers wayyy too much, resists way too much and sets up on way to much because of it. Scizor is an example of the difference between making adaptions and being centralized around a Pokemon. Slowking just happens to be that lame, centralized, adaption. Slowking is the sole reason Scizor can stay in UU right now. The hard counter is overshadowing the problem. Edited December 3, 2015 by DrCraig

[RysPicz]

Slowking just happens to be that lame, centralized, adaption. Slowking is the sole reason Scizor can stay in UU right now. The hard counter is overshadowing the problem.

Exeggutor.

 

E:

 

Welp somehow I erased the rest of my post. I'll fix this soon

Edited December 3, 2015 by RysPicz

[RysPicz]

Zebra ACTUALLY never pointed out a defensive core being a problem when suggesting Sceptile could be fine in UU. He never said it makes anything which could be consider OP, to be weaker. 'Twas merely a statement saying,"hey, I don't see why not do this."

On the topic of the problematic Pokemon, I don't see Vileplume as ever being one. Vileplume is pretty 1 dimensional these days; it is just solid enough to be a staple for the tier. It's a glue keeping a lot in check, but it doesn't step into any uber territory or unhealthy territory. Scizor on the other hand. Scizor is a centralizing beast with its tanky offense which covers wayyy too much, resists way too much and sets up on way to much because of it. Scizor is an example of the difference between making adaptions and being centralized around a Pokemon. Slowking just happens to be that lame, centralized, adaption. Slowking is the sole reason Scizor can stay in UU right now. The hard counter is overshadowing the problem.

I also don't really see Vileplume as the real problem. It has high usage but plethora of common weaknesses make it really exposable and there are pokes that can expose them, thus fall in the usage.

About Sceptile move- it's more like... we are crying in UU for something different. Something has to be done. Sceptile on paper doesn't seem to be that much threatening and might help to balance the tier, besides even if it fails, we at least tried something. Because of idleness the tier is stagnant and wallish and absolutely not enjoyable for a large part of cummunity, including myself.

 

E:

shit double post and I wanted to edit. sorry, 3 days of work of 11-12 hours can do that to you

 

E2:

 

Do not bring Zard back or I'm gonna make you regret it the first tournament you do it.

Edited December 3, 2015 by RysPicz

[DoubleJ]

But zebra wants it to come back forf...

[BurntZebra]

I'm indifferent at this point, although it probably should have been given a chance in a meta where rhydon didn't destroy altaria and every special wall

[DoubleJ]

I'd just like to once again propose a Slowking + Scizor test ban in UU. Both are incredibly centralizing and have incredibly high usage for such a diverse tier. They have amazing defensive synergy and are often used to even counter one another.

Suspect these two for the love of god.

Edited December 5, 2015 by DoubleJ

[DrCraig]

I would love Scizor to be tested before Slowking. Either Scizor goes or both go pretty much.

[RysPicz]

Honestly I'm up for any change in this tier. I made a discussion request thread for Slowking but I was on the edge on making one for Sciz or Plume.

 

Suspect these two for the love of god.

For the love of god, do something with the tier that was used to be the most popular, balanced and beloved in MMO.

Edited December 6, 2015 by RysPicz

[DoubleJ]

Robo will say this is just the "JJ Master Plan" since my goal from day one in UU was to remove zard, rhydon, slowking, and scizor. So far it's been proven that 2 of the 4 were broken and the other two are hotly debated.

In the end UU is stall heavy and has little diversity. I ask that we just do something and stop dilly dallying around. We've had a broken tier for months and the only change was removing rhydon at the end of summer.

[KaynineXL]

Robo will say this is just the "JJ Master Plan" since my goal from day one in UU was to remove zard, rhydon, slowking, and scizor. So far it's been proven that 2 of the 4 were broken and the other two are hotly debated.

In the end UU is stall heavy and has little diversity. I ask that we just do something and stop dilly dallying around. We've had a broken tier for months and the only change was removing rhydon at the end of summer.

I feel it takes way too long to decide if they want to ban something.

 

If they can't decide get on and have a look at the meta, that's the problem imo, a bunch of the council don't get on enough to look at the meta.. and looking at the usage stats does not give them enough info.

[DrCraig]

My goal in life is to prove that it was a mistake when the BLs will moved down from to UU after they were banned. They do not belong.
[spoiler]Slowking might tho[/spoiler]

[DrCraig]

I feel it takes way too long to decide if they want to ban something.
 
If they can't decide get on and have a look at the meta, that's the problem imo, a bunch of the council don't get on enough to look at the meta.. and looking at the usage stats does not give them enough info.

The probably is when you are faced with powerful Pokemon that do not fit the standard uber characteristics, you have to look closer, delve into some theorymon, and make some test bans. It's not as one dimensional when you step out of objective territory and into subjective.

[KaynineXL]

The probably is when you are faced with powerful Pokemon that do not fit the standard uber characteristics, you have to look closer, delve into some theorymon, and make some test bans. It's not as one dimensional when you step out of objective territory and into subjective.

Can't really use that excuse imo.

 

Chansey thread has been open for over 2 months.

Walrein thread has been opened for almost 1 month

 

I get it takes time, but that's a little over the top.

[DoubleJ]

Done and Done. 

 

@DrCraig: 

 

Aggron - move to C

Armaldo - B or B+

Cradily - B or B+

Donphan - B or B+

Flareon - C

Glalie - B

Golem - C

Haunter - B+

Hitmontop - B

Jynx - C

Kabutops - B

Lapras - B

Magmar - C

Misdreavus - B

Muk - C

Ninetales - C

Pinsir - C

Primeape - D

Shuckle - C

Walrein - B

[Leorodo]

I'm thinking crobat could be bumped up from C to B rank. With breloom seeing some useage since the bullet seed update it acts as a nice pivot(4x resisting both of breloom's STAB moves) while also being able to pressure special walls such as careful kanga/clef with its access to super fang and STAB sludge bomb. As well as the great defensive typing it has great speed and coverage to hit the whole tier- heat wave for scizor/vileplume, giga for omastar and sludge for exeggutor/breloom.