UU Viability Thread

[BurntZebra]

And EQ/DE are probably the two worst moves to get CB locked into.

just like return/aerial ace are the two worst moves for swellow to get locked into

[fredrichnietze]

khan can get low kick and run surf/ice beam/other spec moves for the surprise ko's

[BurntZebra]

khan can get low kick and run surf/ice beam/other spec moves for the surprise ko's

0- SpA Kangaskhan Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rhydon: 120-144 (66.6 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

not enough to get a surprise ohko, which is ideal, but better than a 3hko with uninvested low kick/earthquake

[DoubleJ]

Ok time to continue discussion on Rhydon. Tomorrow will be a big test for the rocky rhino and we'll see if he's just too much with that cb set or an impressive wallbreaker with the sd set.

Personally my favorite teams all handle Rhydon at every turn, so I see this poke having a very difficult time sweeping in our tier. Despite this though it will certainly apply pressure and be able to nab some knockouts. And just to note once more, double-edge and eq, while powerful, are quite terrible to get locked into. I'm thinking MissD setups and bdrum sweeps with zard.

Defensively rhydon provides an interesting niche, as we finally have a quality rock type (sorry golem). Rhydon poops on swellow and adds extra pressure to anything with seismic toss with those 51 subs. With something that nerfs swellow, will zam + rhydon be too much or can scizor confinue to be our savior barring hp fire?

[Robofiend]

WTB Breloom Bullet Seed

 

I think Rhydon will probably get the banhammer in time. Despite the fact that Crawdaunt, Slowking, Vileplume, Scizor, etc. have coverage, Rhydon's insanely bulky and can abuse the attacks of some common pokes to snag kills with a CB strapped. We'll see tomorrow tho, I'm genuinely excited to see a UU match with no special walls (outside of Clef, that is). 

[DoubleJ]

Tfw all the special walls (vile, steelix, etc) are forced to be defensive checks

[DrCraig]

WTB Breloom Bullet Seed

 

I think Rhydon will probably get the banhammer in time. Despite the fact that Crawdaunt, Slowking, Vileplume, Scizor, etc. have coverage, Rhydon's insanely bulky and can abuse the attacks of some common pokes to snag kills with a CB strapped. We'll see tomorrow tho, I'm genuinely excited to see a UU match with no special walls (outside of Clef, that is). 

Rhydon is in a Marowak situation right now where it has a hard time wiggling around with its slow speed and typing, but once it gets in it is very strong. Once Rhydon gets in and starts dishing out attacks, it's too strong, but I think this is something we just have to see. The really is no way of handling Rhydon's CB and SD set at the same time without running something ugly. The next 2 UU tournaments should give us a nice feel.

[TheRealPhatiman]

 

rhydon doesnt get crunch lol, but i've played a few battles to try out rhydon, and i do agree it is really hard to switch it in (never even got to use it :'( )

such lies toasty,how can your ride on make such love to my tooshy and just forget it ever happened?i certainly didnt.the memory is still fresh and livid in my mind..one double bluff too far and he was primed and readeh,the absolute rekkage he unleashed on me has given me my first of many sleepless nights..

 

on a serious note though,it was only a bad play on my part that actually gave you a chance to set up,otherwise he just seemed like dead weight most of the time.I gave rhy a try too in a few duels and honestly he just has so few situations that allow the setup(or even a safe switch in) that it ended up being nothing more than a defensive pivot(and a mediocre one at that)I think perhaps with the right support it'd be easier but even then his chance of a successful setup is minimal..its like craig pointed out,hes very similiar to maro currently,if youre dumb/careless enough to allow the setup im of the belief that you deserved to get swept.BUT Id like to see it in action in a proper setting to see his true mettle before i decide if its more cancer than cure..

[spoiler]his set ups require a paramount level of prediction and scouting(or ignorance on the opponents part)high risk,high reward.[/spoiler]

[GoldenSunIsaac]

Scizor

Does anybody else think Scizor should be moved out of UU. I mean it's a pretty good comp if you use it in the right situation, not sure why much players don't use it. I know it's 4x weak to fire types, leaving it completely useless to an Arcanine with intimidate, but can work well on Toxic Pokemon and stallers such as Umbreon. Sword Dance Scizor is a very good comp, leaving any Pokemon slower than it dead or useless, I know for sure plenty of players would use it if the move "Bullet Punch" was implemented, since Bullet Punch can replace quick attack, hits first and also adds STAB priority on the damage. I've used Scizor in OU battles before plenty of times, it always seems to work wonders, it makes gengar pointless, unless it uses destiny bond. Who else agrees Scizor is worthy for OU, and ready to leave UU? Also very glad that Umbreon, and Porygon2 were moved out of the UU tier. They were getting irritating in UU battles, especially with trace ability. 

 

Also I know Scizor has a low move spread in PokeMMO, still think it can be ranked up. If i'm missing why they are still in UU just tell me.

Edited August 12, 2015 by GoldenSunIsaac

[Draekyn]

Scizor

Does anybody else think Scizor should be moved out of UU. I mean it's a pretty good comp if you use it in the right situation, not sure why much players don't use it. I know it's 4x weak to fire types, leaving it completely useless to an Arcanine with intimidate, but can work well on Toxic Pokemon and stallers such as Umbreon. Sword Dance Scizor is a very good comp, leaving any Pokemon slower than it dead or useless, I know for sure plenty of players would use it if the move "Bullet Punch" was implemented, since Bullet Punch can replace quick attack, hits first and also adds STAB priority on the damage. I've used Scizor in OU battles before plenty of times, it always seems to work wonders, it makes gengar pointless, unless it uses destiny bond. Who else agrees Scizor is worthy for OU, and ready to leave UU? Also very glad that Umbreon, and Porygon2 were moved out of the UU tier. They were getting irritating in UU battles, especially with trace ability. 

 

Also I know Scizor has a low move spread in PokeMMO, still think it can be ranked up. If i'm missing why they are still in UU just tell me.

That's not how tiering by usage works, the only ways it could be moved up to OU is if people magically start using it in OU and it goes up by usage, or if it's deemed too powerful/centralizing/toxic for UU and it's not at this point in time

[GoldenSunIsaac]

That's not how tiering by usage works, the only ways it could be moved up to OU is if people magically start using it in OU and it goes up by usage, or if it seemed* too powerful/centralizing/toxic for UU and it's not at this point in time

Alright thankx man.

Edited August 12, 2015 by GoldenSunIsaac

[DrCraig]

I don't like Scizor in UU, but let's leave that for another episode of "How broken are these BLs in UU?"

I want to see some mean Zam and Rhydon discussion right here, right now.

[GoldenSunIsaac]

I don't like Scizor in UU, but let's leave that for another episode of "How broken are these BLs in UU?"

I want to see some mean Zam and Rhydon discussion right here, right now.

Personally when I battle Rhydons, I always OHKO them. They never really get hits in because theyre kind of slow.. and Alakazam is OP, should be in S Rank cuz of his speed and STAB psychic.

Edited August 12, 2015 by GoldenSunIsaac

[RysPicz]

Zam S after Chansey, Umb and P2 bans. So few things can stop it, it's speed is insane, makes the most powerful, reliable and efficient lategame sweeper there currently is in the meta, and the most potent ban material. I just wonder why people don't use it in OU anymore after lax bliss bans.

Ride On idk yet didn't saw many UU matches, played only few, I need more experience for some input.

Edited August 12, 2015 by RysPicz

[Liberalisme]

How on earth is Xatu B+. It's by far the most shitty pokemon that I have ever used in UU. Poliwrath deserves higher because Bellydrum is OP as fuck with Salac, I would give him B+ atleast.

[DrCraig]

How on earth is Xatu B+. It's by far the most shitty pokemon that I have ever used in UU. Poliwrath deserves higher because Bellydrum is OP as fuck with Salac, I would give him B+ atleast.Lastly, this thread also functions as a discussion about the UU metagame. So by all means do not hold back on discussing your thought; how you think can go better, or how you think everything is already going good. Bringing underrated Pokémon up for discussion is also part of a viability thread discussion. When proposing a ranking change please post reasoning behind your argument to strengthen your position as well as to make sure we avoid the thread being littered or derailed.

Hey how about you ready the OP :D

 

Lastly, this thread also functions as a discussion about the UU metagame. So by all means do not hold back on discussing your thought; how you think can go better, or how you think everything is already going good. Bringing underrated Pokémon up for discussion is also part of a viability thread discussion. When proposing a ranking change please post reasoning behind your argument to strengthen your position as well as to make sure we avoid the thread being littered or derailed.

How about you give reasoning to why the community and I are blind to the fact that Xatu is just not good. I had no idea it was the shittiest pokemon in the tier. Please tell me how Xatu is not worthy of a B+ with 95Speed/Satk and a great movepool. You know what, I'm going to quote the B rank description just for you because Xatu is apparently too shitty man and I want you to tell me why it doesn't fit the ranking.

 

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the UU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. These Pokemon exert an above average presence in the metagame.

 

Maybe Xatu needs to be moved down to B, who knows. Maybe it got better since, ya know, Porygon and Umbreon got moved up. Who knows, maybe you should post some reasoning your comments. This isn't the opinion dump thread. I don't even care if you call Xatu shitty, but I want to know why. Tell me why.

 

Also, Poliwrath is just not that good. The drum set does not warrant a B rank when its clearly held back by low ATK, not having a easy time setting up, and being susceptible to a tier plagued by priority. Magmar is just plain better at setting up drum and it also has access to priority. Wrath is outclassed.

[gbwead]

Poliwrath deserves higher because Bellydrum is OP as fuck with Salac, I would give him B+ atleast.

That S rank pokemon Slowking disagree.

 

Edit: #slayercraig

Edited August 12, 2015 by lamerb

[Toast]

Craig you fucking savage lmfao. But anyways Xatu might need to get moved down imo, with so much houndoom and dusclops running around (soon, now?) It just cant shine as well as it used to be. Probably B/B- now

[DrCraig]

Craig you fucking savage lmfao. But anyways Xatu might need to get moved down imo, with so much houndoom and dusclops running around (soon, now?) It just cant shine as well as it used to be. Probably B/B- now

Yea, I could agree with that. Thanks Toast, here's a sticker. Thanks for the supported input.

[DoubleJ]

Craig you fucking savage lmfao. But anyways Xatu might need to get moved down imo, with so much houndoom and dusclops running around (soon, now?) It just cant shine as well as it used to be. Probably B/B- now

 

What's Dusclops gonna do to Xatu?

 

+1 252 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dusclops: 75-88 (51 - 59.8%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Dusclops Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 50-60 (35.7 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

With fewer Swellow running around (ty Rhydon), Xatu can finally have a decent role in the tier. 

[Toast]

Blastoise B/C and kadabra should just be removed from this list imo or D? Like zam > kadabra in all ways (literally, its an evo). Toise B/C because its pretty much outclassed by slowking and hell even tenta to an extent. It doesnt have reliable recovery and basically gets shitted on by the phys attackers (scizor, craw, etc). Plume wrecks it, cant do calc on ice beam but dunno.

[Toast]

What's Dusclops gonna do to Xatu?

+1 252 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dusclops: 75-88 (51 - 59.8%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Dusclops Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 50-60 (35.7 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With fewer Swellow running around (ty Rhydon), Xatu can finally have a decent role in the tier.

Double post whoops.
Clops can seismic it, tpunch/shadowpunch, and wouldnt clops run max sdef hp? Or does houndoom hurt it too much that it needs to run def invest?

[DoubleJ]

Double post whoops.
Clops can seismic it, tpunch/shadowpunch, and wouldnt clops run max sdef hp? Or does houndoom hurt it too much that it needs to run def invest?

 

Honestly don't know what defenses Clops would run on the every day. Seismic Toss and Thunder Punch both do less damage than my posted Shadow Ball. 

 

+1 252 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dusclops: 57-67 (38.7 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Dusclops Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 54-66 (38.5 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

+2 252 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dusclops: 76-90 (51.7 - 61.2%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Dusclops Shadow Ball vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 42-50 (30 - 35.7%) -- 24.3% chance to 3HKO

 

Edited August 13, 2015 by DoubleJ

[gbwead]

Honestly don't know what defenses Clops would run on the every day. Seismic Toss and Thunder Punch both do less damage than my posted Shadow Ball. 

 

+1 252 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dusclops: 57-67 (38.7 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Dusclops Shadow Ball vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 54-66 (38.5 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

+2 252 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dusclops: 76-90 (51.7 - 61.2%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Dusclops Shadow Ball vs. +2 0 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 42-50 (30 - 35.7%) -- 24.3% chance to 3HKO

0 Atk Dusclops Shadow Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xatu: 68-84 (48.5 - 60%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Shadow punch is pretty decent and is better than Shadowball versus Zam.

[Liberalisme]

The main problem with Xatu for me is that it has weakness to very common moves (ice, electric, rock). Yeah the resist (1/4) to fighting moves and being immune for EQ is nice but I just couldn't set up because when I did a Calm Mind the opponent forced me to switch with a another pokemon. Also Xatu is a pokemon that can't easily switch in on a pokemon.


I think Poliwrath is a pokemon that deserves more love. Yeah I have to agree that priority is a problem but look at those statts. You switch in on a Crawdaunt or other water pokemons and you can bellydrum easily because the opponent has to switch. I played with Wrath a couple battle's and I really loved playing with him. You should try him out.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Liberalisme