NU Viability Thread

[Gruul]

Just posting for some hype cause today the next Tier update should happen :3

Edited August 7, 2016 by Gruul
Edit: no hype

[LifeStyle]

@OrangeManiac Did you give up on this thread or something? I see some pokes listed here that aren't NU anymore and also some other things like Kingler listed as S rank when it has like 6% usage. Do you need someone else to take over this (probably start a new thread) or do you plan on making changes in the near future?

[OrangeManiac]

35 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

@OrangeManiac Did you give up on this thread or something? I see some pokes listed here that aren't NU anymore and also some other things like Kingler listed as S rank when it has like 6% usage. Do you need someone else to take over this (probably start a new thread) or do you plan on making changes in the near future?

This is a community's project, not my project. The last post before this was from August so not much I can or wanted to do since no one is giving any input. I most definitely don't think Kingler is S Rank at this point of metagame development but since there's no discussion there's not much I can do. I disliked before this thread for the fact that after being dead for months I break the silence to suggest a couple of new rankings, get couple of likes to my post and am like "okay, then.. guess that's fine."

 

(Well a few months ago there was some nice discussion about things but it kinda died out...)

 

Maybe explain why certain Pokemon is some rank to get started?

Edited November 3, 2016 by OrangeManiac

[RysPicz]

16 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

Maybe explain why certain Pokemon is some rank to get started?

I think Beedrill is "A" because I killed a defensive Grumpig with mine

[KaynineXL]

S rank I think should just be Absol.

 

It can and does multiple roles in NU really well, and it shows just by how the meta game is shaped around Absol. With CB it hits like an absolute truck and can punch holes into wall, but not only that its pursuits on this set are incredibly overpowering. Then we've for the fast scarf revenge killer, outspending pretty much everything not scarfed which means it can even trap those fast psychics. Then some other sets that can be good like the SD set and the mixed set which give it some surprise factor when needed. It's insane at supporting other Pokemon by taking out their weaknesses(looking at poison pokes who laugh at psychics running scared).

 

I don't really think anything else deserves S rank.

Edited November 3, 2016 by KaynineXL

[RysPicz]

21 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

I don't really think anything else deserves S rank.

I think one and one only other thing does and it's Victreebel. Insane sweeping and wallbreaking potential, can run multiple sets and all of them are threatening as fuk and it's really tough to directly counter with one poke.

[LifeStyle]

I gotchu

 

Kingler from S to A

Yes this thing hits hard af, SD set is probably one of the best choices to break stall teams, however NU is imo the most offensive-oriented tier we have (Victreebel rape time), Kingler's average speed and laughable HP+SP Defense cripple it as it gets easily revenge killed by pretty much any faster Special Attacker. Scarf Kingler can get a surprise kill against those tho but once scarf is revealed it just gets easier to wall it. Also Bellossom, Tangela, priority moves, etc etc.

 

Electabuzz from S to A+/A

SP Def Raichu/Camerupt/Kecleon/Muk/Claydol/Grumpig

Yeah it's a hard hitter with Life Orb, also one of the fastest pokes in NU, but it gets wear down by those walls I mentioned and Raichu just completely stalls it with Wish+Protect and Kecleon recovers on its face unless it switches into some sneaky ass cross chop/focus punch mixed version (Diglett when). Good late game cleaner tho but just not deserving of the S rank imo.

 

Victreebel from A+ to S

See now this is a monster, it's one of those pokes that can run a bunch of different sets and make all of them work, also it feels like it's really easy to just come in any grass type or predicted Toxic and then spam Life Orb Sludge Bomb everywhere because there are only like 4-5 good switches that resist it, but only Muk and Swalot (who) don't fear the 30% poison chance. But then again none of those switches will know what to do if they come in SD Victree, gg no re.

"Fuck this thing, why can't this just let me play 6 walls smh".

 

Sharpedo from A+ to A

With Poliwrath being the highest used NU I don't really see Sharpedo being that scary. Also we have Hitmontop/Bellossom to wall it and Buzz/Fearow/Rapidash/Kadabra/other faster shit and scarf users to revenge kill it. It just hates taking any hits really, best way to bring it in is on some predicted Psychic or as revenge killer. Still pretty good tho especially since it can learn Dbond.

 

Gorebyss from A+ to B+

It's slow. It really doesn't get that many opportunities to setup rain, which it really needs to sweep. If it does get inside rain, then it's quite scary but I just wouldn't consider something below 3% usage as an A+ mon.

 

Pinsir from A to A+/S

Pure wallbreaker, 85 base speed is not bad at all, it has Hyper Cutter and a quite nice movepool, SD it up and you can pretty much rape every wall NU has to offer. I can only imagine what would it be like if this thing had a nice STAB move.

Also Scarf Pinsir is really good against offensive teams.

 

Muk from B to A

Curse. That is all.

 

Tropius from B to B+/A

Underrated af, it can setup DD against most things due to its bulk and typing and then it just starts cleaning house. It's really one of the best late game sweepers.

 

Rapidash+Roselia+Torkoal from C to B

Rapidash is really good cmon, one of the fastest in the tier and it can run mixed sets which can break common walls.

Roselia is the best NU spikes user (Tho there's like 2 or 3 kek) and it forms great synergy with Whiscash.

Torkoal is just Torkoal, I think it deserves more than C.

 

Ok now I'm gonna add some Pokes who aren't listed here that I feel have a place in our metagame

 

Seviper - B rank

One of the best movepools and it has 100 Attack/Sp Attack. Yes 65 speed is quite slow but talk about a wall breaker, this thing just like Victreebel can just spam Life Orb Sludge everywhere, difference is, unlike Victree, this thing can also EQ. Get fucked Muk/Came/Raichu/ur mom.

 

Camerupt - B/B+

So we give S rank to Electabuzz but one of its best checks doesn't even deserve a mention. This baby can be used as a Special wall or a mixed Life Orb user (Flame+HP Grass+EQ is really good).

 

Kadabra - B+

NU's Alakazam, this shit is actually quite scary and I imagine how it's going to be if Absol gets banned, probably just gonna spam Specs Psychic everything ftw.

Edited November 3, 2016 by LifeStyle

[Kizhaz]

I'm not sure if Victreebel is S rank material, I feel the only reason it's so good atm is because of the high Poliwrath/Solrock usage. This also makes other grass types more viable Victreebel just has the edge on them with it's poison typing. I feel it still sits nicely at A+.

Agree on Absol, it's atk is sky high and it's in a nice speed tier to run a scarf on. Pursuit adds valuable team support too

[KaynineXL]

54 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

I think one and one only other thing does and it's Victreebel. Insane sweeping and wallbreaking potential, can run multiple sets and all of them are threatening as fuk and it's really tough to directly counter with one poke.

I definitely wouldn't call it S rank material, but I feel like it's high up there, maybe A+. Reasoning being it can be stopped fairly easy imo, Kecleon(stops specs/sunny day set, unsure about the orb growth set) and especially Muk do a great job at it and they're fairly popular. Not only that, it's not fast so it can struggle sweeping without sunny day, which imo is shut down by even more, even Raichu can wish + prot stall sunny day.

[RysPicz]

Just now, KaynineXL said:

I definitely wouldn't call it S rank material, but I feel like it's high up there, maybe A+. Reasoning being it can be stopped fairly easy imo, Kecleon(stops specs/sunny day set, unsure about the orb growth set) and especially Muk do a great job at it and they're fairly popular. Not only that, it's not fast so it can struggle sweeping without sunny day, which imo is shut down by even more, even Raichu can wish + prot stall sunny day.

Everything you mentioned dies to a SD set

[KaynineXL]

5 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Everything you mentioned dies to a SD set

Yeh, the SD is a bit gimmick and once swords dance is revealed you can switch accordingly. At best, I think can break walls, but with the low speed, it does struggle to sweep.

 

If we're talking dominant wall breakers, Pinsir is king.

 

 

Edit:

@RysPicz

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the NU metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon define the metagame.

 

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the NU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits. These Pokemon exert a strong presence in the metagame.

 

Imo, it doesn't fit the S rank description, but absolutely fits A rank.

Edited November 3, 2016 by KaynineXL

[OrangeManiac]

I feel like Vic might in fact fall into S territory. I feel as it is like a NU Gengar. Flareon and Mantine "walls" Weather Ball set but both take insane damage from physical set. Meanwhile the fast sweepers checking physical sets get OHKOd by Solarbeam. The number of counters to Vic is really low and it gives you nightmares even thinking you need to teambuild against it.

 

I'm more sceptical about Pinsir, though. Yeah it hits hard but Scarfless set is pretty easily dealt with a fast special Life Orber. It's mainly good against stall teams and less against other hyper offense making it therefor A+ mon.

 

For me S is something that causes issues to every kind of team. And Vic is there imo.

 

I don't even think Absol is S ranker while I ironically think it's an unhealthy tiering wise. It isn't great against everything, it just supports the fuck out of Psychics, while still being viable enough as beyond that but not the strongest. Then again, Absol if anything defines the current metagame. Still something in me calls it A+.

[KaynineXL]

13 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

I feel like Vic might in fact fall into S territory. I feel as it is like a NU Gengar. Flareon and Mantine "walls" Weather Ball set but both take insane damage from physical set. Meanwhile the fast sweepers checking physical sets get OHKOd by Solarbeam. The number of counters to Vic is really low and it gives you nightmares even thinking you need to teambuild against it.

 

I'm more sceptical about Pinsir, though. Yeah it hits hard but Scarfless set is pretty easily dealt with a fast special Life Orber. It's mainly good against stall teams and less against other hyper offense making it therefor A+ mon.

 

For me S is something that causes issues to every kind of team. And Vic is there imo.

 

I don't even think Absol is S ranker while I ironically think it's an unhealthy tiering wise. It isn't great against everything, it just supports the fuck out of Psychics, while still being viable enough as beyond that but not the strongest. Then again, Absol if anything defines the current metagame. Still something in me calls it A+.

I disagree with it being like Gengar. Gengar was so much more dominant, and the most dirty thing about Gengar was the bold WoW pain split set. Gengar could be a very good special attacker, mixed attacker, wall and has access to great utility.

 

Victreebel can be a special attacker which quite frankly, gets walled by some of our most common mons in the tier as well as being slow so if it wants real sweep potential it needs to be the sunny day set, that's walled by even Raichu as well. The physical attacking set imo is only good because it can usually get an extra +2 by bluffing its a sp attacker, which is very much needed because if it doesn't I think its not as dominant as other physical attackers in the tier.

 

Xatu is great for most Victreebel sets(if not all?), but guess what shining support is there to wreck its day? Absol. It doesn't even need to kill Xatu, just weaken it.

 

I imagine you mean supports the poisons, not psychics. No, Absol isn't great against everything, but generally it can always pursuit something useful... but like I said in another thread, the best thing Absol does is support other Pokemon.. That is exactly why I say it's S rank, the insane support coupled with its pretty good wall breaking capabilities and speed revenge killing as a scarf user.

Edited November 3, 2016 by KaynineXL

[pachima]

4 hours ago, RysPicz said:

I think Beedrill is "A" because I killed a defensive Grumpig with mine

yeah, its "A" shit.

[OrangeManiac]

Yeah Vic is less dominant than Gengar but reminds me of it a lot for the fact you can only have shaky checks against it. It's less dominant though, yes I agree. That's why I'm not jumping in threads wanting it to be banned.

[Liberalisme]

Mr Mime: Rank B+

 

Mr Mime has a pretty good speed,  nice sp Def and great sp atk. I prefer the specs set but Scarred works pretty well as well to outspeed sweepers and any Absol. Scarfed Mr Mime Signal Beam has a really small % to OHKO Absol.  

 

Also having a good move pool, (psychic,  tbolt and signal beam) I like to pair it with a twave user for the speed control or a second special attacker. Trick is pretty nice to use against a Raichu or Keckleon that will switch in most of the times. 

 

 

[KaynineXL]

26 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

Yeah Vic is less dominant than Gengar but reminds me of it a lot for the fact you can only have shaky checks against it. It's less dominant though, yes I agree. That's why I'm not jumping in threads wanting it to be banned.

Reminds me more of tenta. The great resists, immunity to toxic, primarily a special attacker with the option to run the physical set that can wreck the special walls. Of course tenta has the speed and utility which is probably why its higher up in tiers.

Edited November 3, 2016 by KaynineXL

[razimove]

Quag is UU now btw ^^

[OrangeManiac]

Added Life's ranks for now. Put Vic as S for now. Keeping Absol in A+ for now but if enough of you feels it's an S, I can change that. Added Mime to B+ cuz nice special check.

 

Edit: Put Kecleon as A, cause it walls the heck out of so many specs users.

Edited November 4, 2016 by OrangeManiac

[Liberalisme]

Is there anything I can help you with Orange maniac? 

[Liberalisme]

Also add Golem in B+ or A

 

Has really nice physical attack and defense. If just right this thing is an absolute monster. Sturdy is also a really good ability to have. Counters Fearow very well aswell. CB stab EQ hits basically everything hard that isn't immune to it. Having 2 stabs and superpower it hits hard with the right predictions. 

[OrangeManiac]

3 minutes ago, Liberalisme said:

Also add Golem in B+ or A

 

Has really nice physical attack and defense. If just right this thing is an absolute monster. Sturdy is also a really good ability to have. Counters Fearow very well aswell. CB stab EQ hits basically everything hard that isn't immune to it. Having 2 stabs and superpower it hits hard with the right predictions. 

Oh yeah, Golem. Definitely A worthy if you ask me. Amazing lead, pretty much the only counter lead you can have against it is Icicle Spear Piloswine. It can be countered with Bellossom/Tangela but anything else needs prediction to get in safely. Hits like an absolute truck.

[pachima]

I dont see persian anywhere on that list.

[OrangeManiac]

Just now, pachima said:

I dont see persian anywhere on that list.

There's lots of Pokemon that hasn't been set a rank in this thread as no one has addressed them. Persian won't be really high, I'll say this much though.

[pachima]

7 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

There's lots of Pokemon that hasn't been set a rank in this thread as no one has addressed them. Persian won't be really high, I'll say this much though.

No love for the best sweeper out there...

PS: Almost joking.