[Discussion] Snorlax/Blissey's Place in the OU Meta (Snorlax AND Blissey moved to Ubers)

[codylramey]

Those pokes can keep bliss at bay pretty well but not lax. Machamp can come in on lax once, twice if hes lucky. Lax can come in multiple times throughout a match (except here l8ly i believe ppl have stopped using spcl attackers so that lax doesnt get a free switch in). Ive sseen wish jolt around often bc what does wish do? Heals any damage lax does to the switch in (pray no para). Its the only way to keep ur lax counter healthy enough to do its job. Also lax gets firepunch and anyone whos not lazy or dumb should be running it. It hits heracross, breloom, metagross, forrtress, skarmory and scizor. Thats 2/3 of ur proposed UU lax counters, not that bslam doesnt do enough to most of them except scizor who still has to worry about para.

Something else you have to realize, and i think people in these discussions often lose sight of this, is that lax isnt the only pokemon we have to worry about. Machamp isnt used bc its so heavily walled by weezing and often times lead to a free switch in for gengar. Scizor has a terrible move pool and cant do much to weez (i think), skarm, fortress, and vaporeon. If it got acess to bullet punch and u-turn then it would find a niche in OU but right now its not that good.

That leads me to my next point. WE ARENT GETTING FUTURE GEN MOVES, ABILITIES, AND ITEMS IN A LONG TIME. Nor are we getting legendaries for a long time. So stop with this "oh we just need these things" argument bc its not gonna happen for a while. 6 months minimum, and thats if we are lucky. Instead of dwelling on the things we need from future gens we need to fix the meta we have now. If you are not going to try n do that then leave, or present a better argument for the meta being fine the way it is now (which its not).

[Excelimpulse]

Isn't it a test? not sure, i don't play uu.
Even charizard and kazam from what i heard.
Let's not derail this though. Would choice specs be of any help btw? thought devs were waiting for the meta to be ready

To be ready? I didn't hear that could be wrong. I think yes and scarf could change how the whole meta is pplayed. It would probably let things like the big 3 back in play. Especially with scarf. Specs not sure of it will help starmie and company for sure. Especially accompanied with trick. Literally destroys lax and blissey.

[Noad]

Isn't it a test? not sure, i don't play uu.

Even charizard and kazam from what i heard.

Let's not derail this though. Would choice specs be of any help btw? thought devs were waiting for the meta to be ready

Choice Specs is a Gen 4 item so I doubt it will be implemented unless we have Gen 4 Abilities/Pokemon/Moves ect ect 

 

Edit: Anyway we are getting a little off topic, please discuss Blissey and Snorlax in regards to to the meta we have currently.

[Excelimpulse]

Choice Specs is a Gen 4 item so I doubt it will be implemented unless we have Gen 4 Abilities/Pokemon/Moves ect ect

Edit: Anyway we are getting a little off topic, please discuss Blissey and Snorlax in regards to to the meta we have currently.

What's the difference between that and the split just curious? Didn't split happen in gen 4?

[ThinkNice]

What's the difference between that and the split just curious? Didn't split happen in gen 4?

Because they aren't in the original code that the game is based on. Special and physical already existed + the moves we have, they just had to switch up the physical and special side.

[Excelimpulse]

Because they aren't in the original code that the game is based on. Special and physical already existed + the moves we have, they just had to switch up the physical and special side.

Are the braces and hats part of the code also?

[codylramey]

Excel the 4th gen shit isnt happening anytime soon. Get over it.

[Gunthug]

Are the braces and hats part of the code also?

here's the thing about gen4 abilities and moves, and pokemon. Devs do not care how much you complain that they haven't been implemented yet. There is absolutely no correlation between you complaining on competition alley, in a thread meant to discuss snorlax, blissey, and the current meta, and the amount of time it'll take us to get gen4 stuff. In fact, any discussion about why the devs haven't implemented gen4 moves, abilities, items, etc is downright irrelevant, and harmful to this discussion. So how about we stick to snorlax, blissey, and the near future of our meta?

 

 

edit dammit cody

Edited June 11, 2015 by Gunthug

[DoubleJ]

Complex ban curselax. Voila.

[Frag]

The tier policy has been strictly enforced all this time by the council, but now they want to ban these things ''because they think it's for the better'', bliss don't fit any ban category as far i can see, neither curse on snorlax, or dugtrio according to the council, so in first place, why we have to discuss something that totally disagrees with the tpolicy.
From my point of view, this thread is an insult to the community, and only shows some people arrogance.

I'm sorry but there's nothing to discuss here but council's modus operandi.
 

[codylramey]

The tier policy has been strictly enforced all this time by the council, but now they want to ban these things ''because they think it's for the better'', bliss don't fit any ban category as far i can see, neither curse on snorlax, or dugtrio according to the council, so in first place, why we have to discuss something that totally disagrees with the tpolicy.
From my point of view, this thread is an insult to the community, and only shows some people arrogance.
I'm sorry but there's nothing to discuss here but council's modus operandi.

It is well within the policy to ban things that could be considered unhealthy for the meta.

[Arimanius]

Frags in response to you I'll quote Senile in his first post

"Banning Blissey+Snorlax for a month test period and seeing if it works out is the decision that the OU council feels is one of the few options left for OU."

It's not like they want to go against the tier policy but try different ways to improve this OU tier that is just not healthy I just don't get why's that so hard to understand. It will be a test ban if it doesn't work out then you will be right and we'll comeback to this awful meta and they'll try to figure out something else

[DoubleJ]

Frags in response to you I'll quote Senile in his first post

"Banning Blissey+Snorlax for a month test period and seeing if it works out is the decision that the OU council feels is one of the few options left for OU."

It's not like they want to go against the tier policy but try different ways to improve this OU tier that is just not healthy I just don't get why's that so hard to understand. It will be a test ban if it doesn't work out then you will be right and we'll comeback to this awful meta and they'll try to figure out something else

It just doesn't look like a good idea. I would prefer a complex ban on curselax. There is currently no other requests, or foreseeable requests for other complex bans, so the thought that allowing one complex ban would open discussion for more isn't present. Slippery slope me thinks. Bannning curse would not only solve one problem within the meta (lax having unrivaled sweeping power and also survivability with curse), but it would also allow for creativity when it comes to lax. Cb lax, subpunch lax, boom lax, mixed lax, and other sets could shine once again because the set that's "too good not to be used" will be removed.

I see no real negative to this aside from removing an option for us as comp players.

Edit: sorry on my phone Edited June 11, 2015 by DoubleJ

[DrCraig]

It is well within the policy to ban things that could be considered unhealthy for the meta.

I think we're throwing the term healthy around to lightly.

[ThinkNice]

Not this Curselax ban shit again, look it's not going to happen. If we ban Curse on Lax we might as well ban Rock Slide on Tyranitar.

[DoubleJ]

Not this Curselax ban shit again, look it's not going to happen. If we ban Curse on Lax we might as well ban Rock Slide on Tyranitar.

I don't want to hear about your slippery slope nonsense. This is the best option for our meta. It's not going to lead to more complex ban requests which the ou council will certainly reject.

And aside maybe burntzebra can pump some life into that discussion being a fresh face with the ou council.

Edit: or are we against topics that aren't original ideas by the council? Edited June 11, 2015 by DoubleJ

[Vaeldras]

Complex ban curselax. Voila.

 

the problem isn't curselax. If anything, blissey is way better at taking ph hits, i'd rather see that banned at this point  :rolleyes:

 

(Not saying that it deserves it, but some people think that just snorlax isn't enough to take care of sp hits in a team)

[DrCraig]

Honestly though, if I didn't have to worry about curse I don't think I'd force my metagross in every time lax comes to ensure its not a curselax. I would be able to play around lax WAY more. Curse is way to threatening...but yea off topic derailing blabla

[Vaeldras]

The main problem here is how you can easily wall sp hitters with a single poke and how supposedly bad it is for the meta and people are still complaining because they can't deal with curselax.

 

That's totally irrelevant, even flat banning snorlax wouldn't change this.

[DoubleJ]

Honestly though, if I didn't have to worry about curse I don't think I'd force my metagross in every time lax comes to ensure its not a curselax. I would be able to play around lax WAY more. Curse is way to threatening...but yea off topic derailing blabla

Technically not off topic. A way to use this would be to present the idea that a bliss/lax-free meta would not be beneficial to ou and that this is a more reasonable option.

Edit: I'll formulate a more distinct argument late. Right now I'm on my phone and don't really have the time.

Edit2: and to vaeldras, the "what is bad about our ou" really hasn't even been identified yet. Keith brought up a good point though. Spec attackers are so good that they force in bliss or lax every time. This means they are easily baited. Trap game on lock. So spe attackers are still easily viable and even are at an advantage in our curremt meta. Edited June 11, 2015 by DoubleJ

[dastan]

It will happen, i do have faith in you

 

[DoubleJ]

I haven't really seen many say this is a good idea. I've seen only a couple players say to move forward with the suspect, one being myself (I retract that request) and the other being cody.

I hope the community can at least come together and say that this is a bad idea rather than just harp on the council for presenting such an extreme (and silly) option

[ThinkNice]

I don't want to hear about your slippery slope nonsense. This is the best option for our meta. It's not going to lead to more complex ban requests which the ou council will certainly reject.

And aside maybe burntzebra can pump some life into that discussion being a fresh face with the ou council.

Edit: or are we against topics that aren't original ideas by the council?

It is not a slippery slope. Tyranitar got banned and Snorlax can get banned and complex bans are there so bans on Pokémon don't have to happen. So you just apply the same logic to the Pokémon already banned so they can also be unbanned. JJ what even

[Vaeldras]

 So spe attackers are still easily viable and even are at an advantage in our curremt meta.

 

I wouldn't say sp attackers are better than ph attackers atm, to me they're pretty much balanced. Once snorlax/blissey is out, that is.

Also they have a way harder time setting up compared to heracross, gyarados, ursaring, snorlax, swampert etc, all they can do is usually hit and run.

To me the meta is fine, but some people are complaining about variety, which is inevitable. To me we are already doing a good job, but having them banned for a while would definitely change things.

We know it's a pretty desperate attempt to make this meta considerably better, but what else can we do? (considerably being the keyword, eh)

[Gunthug]

I haven't really seen many say this is a good idea. I've seen only a couple players say to move forward with the suspect, one being myself (I retract that request) and the other being cody.

I hope the community can at least come together and say that this is a bad idea rather than just harp on the council for presenting such an extreme (and silly) option

I don't really see this as a silly option - A huge amount of people argued that lax was unhealthy for the meta (yourself included). When lax was removed to test whether it was healthy or unhealthy, the meta was still really unhealthy, with bliss having replaced lax's seat atop the usage charts. Is it that farfetched, then, to say that both bliss and lax are unhealthy, and test the meta without either of them? Say what you want about whether this is the right option, but it's not really extreme or silly by any stretch of those definitions.