[OU Discussion] Chansey (Remains OU)

[Murcielago]

I fail to see the problem with chansey.

 

Anything that sets up (swords dance, Dragon Dance, Calm Mind) will force chansey out and even so possibly sweep

Venasuar if it seeds chansey chansey is pretty much done and needs to switch

Anything with fighting moves will OHKO chansey

Steel types immune to poisen (lots of ppl complaining about toxic usage) - Steel types are common

Any Choicebander will force a switch

Dugtrio will wreck it

Duclops... Chansey can't even touch it aside from Twave/toxic

 

I understand that chansey walls special sweepers... but how many special sweepers do you need on your team? 

 

It seems like everytime I come back to Pokemmo you guys want to ban something else... just let the meta evolve, chansey isn't some over powering force... its a special wall that gets chopped up by lots of pokes... The cleric abilities are nice, but other pokes can do the same thing...

Edited November 30, 2015 by Murcielago

[Rendom]

The problem at killing chansey with choice banders is that it can protect to scout the move and then switch to something that resists the banded move. Pokemon that try to set up on it can be eliminated by proper team building I think, so it's not as easy to kill as you think

[KaynineXL]

The problem at killing chansey with choice banders is that it can protect to scout the move and then switch to something that resists the banded move. Pokemon that try to set up on it can be eliminated by proper team building I think, so it's not as easy to kill as you think

Problem is, it can be risky when scouting Cbers that can also setup such as Heracross/Blaziken(there are more).

[zteban]

first chance you run, if its bander, next time you use protect. and its checked

[OldKeith]

The problem at killing chansey with choice banders is that it can protect to scout the move and then switch to something that resists the banded move. Pokemon that try to set up on it can be eliminated by proper team building I think, so it's not as easy to kill as you think

 

So how hard is it to predict that switch and switch yourself as well?

[Rendom]

So how hard is it to predict that switch and switch yourself as well?

 

I guess it's risky if you don't know what he's going to switch to

[Rendiz]

I guess it's risky if you don't know what he's going to switch to

Not really. Most likely they will swap to a wall and for the most part they can't punish you very hard if you make a bad swap. Even so that swap can be just as risky for them as it is for you.

[LuisPocho]

I fail to see the problem with chansey.

 

Anything that sets up (swords dance, Dragon Dance, Calm Mind) will force chansey out and even so possibly sweep

Venasuar if it seeds chansey chansey is pretty much done and needs to switch

Anything with fighting moves will OHKO chansey

Steel types immune to poisen (lots of ppl complaining about toxic usage) - Steel types are common

Any Choicebander will force a switch

Dugtrio will wreck it

Duclops... Chansey can't even touch it aside from Twave/toxic

 

I understand that chansey walls special sweepers... but how many special sweepers do you need on your team? 

 

It seems like everytime I come back to Pokemmo you guys want to ban something else... just let the meta evolve, chansey isn't some over powering force... its a special wall that gets chopped up by lots of pokes... The cleric abilities are nice, but other pokes can do the same thing...

 
the problem is that all the counters are pshysical attackers (except the leech seed ones)... with a chansey alive in the other team, you cant bring your special sweeper because chansey gonna totally wall it... thats why many people are talking about its just better get another choice bander or something else... that would reduce the variety in the meta, and that would be boring... so chansey is not OP, its just boring or unhealthy... thats the discussion

[Rendom]

Not really. Most likely they will swap to a wall and for the most part they can't punish you very hard if you make a bad swap. Even so that swap can be just as risky for them as it is for you.

 

True, but on the other hand if you mispredict the Chansey switch out and send in for example a Magneton because you thought he was going to switch to Skarmory for example you are in a bad position against the +2 SD user 

[DoubleJ]

There isn't an appropriate location for me to put this, but I wanted to make note of it somewhere for the community to see: I have stepped down from the tier council for personal reasons. Hopefully the council can move forward seamlessly in light of this. 

[Robofiend]

This thread needed a bump anyway

 

[spoiler]

rip JJ it was fun

[/spoiler]

 

I'd like to hear what people think about Chansey - it's still really common but I'm wondering what people from the community think of this 

[RysPicz]

This thread needed a bump anyway
 
[spoiler]
rip JJ it was fun
[/spoiler]
 
I'd like to hear what people think about Chansey - it's still really common but I'm wondering what people from the community think of this

Srs? You got 8 pages of discussion which is basically community saying it's cancer and Zeb defending it with gimmick arguments. Most of us voiced the opinion in this thread already, I don't feel like repeating myself over and over again.

[RysPicz]

Yeh lets give 4F a tier full of swords dance Endure and CBders and lets not forget all the trappers because Chansey is cancer yeh i am so logic buy my new album SoloYoloSetuP.

I think you are missing my point. If you think I want a tier like that then go into archive and look who made wals of text against Alakazam, Charizard, Rhydon and prob more but these 3 are the most recent ones that I do remember. Think before making a post like thst kid. I am always looking at poke from subjective point agreed, but the main priority for me is balanced and healthy metagame for everyone. If a certain pokemon like Chansey stops all of OUs special attackers, offers unrivalled support with wish, aroma and status-absorbing then for me it id a no go. Oh and we saw how trappers do against Chansey during a certain PSL match where it killed a subrev dug with hyper voice. Usage does not lie, it is now either in higher usage than even Metagross or comes close to it.
if 8 pages of discussion is not enough for you Robo, I will make another wall of text for this cancerous pink blob once I come home from work.

[Linken]

Checklist:

 

walls every special attacker - check

unrivaled wish support - check

unrivaled aroma support - check

status-absorbing - check

working around trappers - check

 

[spoiler]but does it djent?[/spoiler]

[codylramey]

252+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 384-453 (54.5 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

This is adamant dugtrio. Sub reversal imo is too gimmicky, if i want to take out a spcl wall with dug i would prefer to use adamant with cband. With spcl def invest it can even survive a icebeam from pory and 2hko it in most cases.

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Porygon2: 193-228 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

The only spcl wall it really struggles with is umbreon which idt can stall dug out if it has pp max EQ (idk tho bc ive never tried).

 

So yea imo if someone loss a dugtrio to a hyper voice chansey he was doing it wrong. Adamant dugtrio can come in on any of chanseys attacks and kill if built right.

 

Not saying that that makes chansey not bann worthy im just saying that the "it cant be trapped" argument is wrong.

Edited December 2, 2015 by codylramey

[OrangeManiac]

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 384-453 (54.5 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

This is adamant dugtrio. Sub reversal imo is too gimmicky, if i want to take out a spcl wall with dug i would prefer to use adamant with cband. With spcl def invest it can even survive a icebeam from pory and 2hko it in most cases.

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Porygon2: 193-228 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

The only spcl wall it really struggles with is umbreon which idt can stall dug out if it has pp max EQ (idk tho bc ive never tried).

 

So yea imo if someone loss a dugtrio to a hyper voice chansey he was doing it wrong. Adamant dugtrio can come in on any of chanseys attacks and kill if built right.

 

Not saying that that makes chansey not bann worthy im just saying that the "it cant be trapped" argument is wrong.

 

 

You're taking the Protect turn out of the equation.

Dugtrio EQs, Chansey uses Wish *Chansey gets Leftovers recovery*

Chansey Protects *Chansey gets Wish and Leftovers recovery*.

 

The HP Chansey is getting from these two turns is 62,5% which means only with two high rolls in a row does Adamant CB Dugtrio actually 2HKO a Chansey. Yes, the Dugtrio exactly doesn't really have problems switching in so it can trap a low HP Chansey kinda but whenever Chansey is below the 50% health it's going to Wish and Protect itself to full HP. EQ and Wish have equal amount of PP which means unless Dugtrio gets 2 high rolls in a row on Chansey with average luck may stall out the PP of CB Dugtrio's Earthquakes and EQless Dugtrio is as good as dead.

Edited December 2, 2015 by OrangeManiac

[Vaeldras]

Frankly i don't think it would make that much more of a difference.

Max spdef umbreon takes sp hits just as well as bold chansey and porygon can eat almost any sp hit without giving any fuck whatsoever.

Ph sweepers would still be vastly superior due to the lack of nasty plot and choice specs

[bl0nde]

[url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b2lMHHCPQdhyhHw-HXbGikwMGQTaklkArsYrfDYwnRk/edit?pli=1#gid=0&vpid=A1]usgae table[/url]

[Laz]

Chansey kills the predictions and kills the plays, I'm not asking for it to be banned because it is unstoppable / hard to deal with, but because it is boring.
 

Edited December 5, 2015 by Lazaro23

[Frag]

Sincerely i don't see what's the problem here, it has almost the same porygon usage, no offensive presence and it get reckt by arena trap which in first place shouldn't exist in the meta.

[zteban]

usgae table

 

september? thats was when chansey wasnt popular yet. in october reach 43,55%. anyways, if the staff provide a more recent usage would be appreciate

[codylramey]

september? thats was when chansey wasnt popular yet. in october reach 43,55%. anyways, if the staff provide a more recent usage would be appreciate

43% isnt even bad yet. I remeber discussing another fat blob who saw a 80% rate. And it took forever to ban his ass.

[Vaeldras]

43% isnt even bad yet

 

bruh

but what would banning chansey resolve?

[codylramey]

bruh

but what would banning chansey resolve?

Oh idk, im not really too involved in the meta atm. Thats why i dont participate in these discussions very often. I just see ppl saying "43%" like thats a lot, it really isnt... yet.

[londark]

Oh idk, im not really too involved in the meta atm. Thats why i dont participate in these discussions very often. I just see ppl saying "43%" like thats a lot, it really isnt... yet.

Last usage stats put chansey at ~33%, not 43