Virtual Reality

[Darkshade]

 

 

Virtual Reality or 'VR', is the use of computer technology to create a simulated 3D Environment.

These environments; when viewed through the lenses of a Virtual Reality Headset give the user a further sense of depth and realism compared to that of a 2D Screen.

 

Unlike traditional digital media, VR allows users to interact with the environment on a personal level and creates the impression of being inside the environment themselves.

 

The year 2016 has seen the release of a few commercial Virtual Reality Headsets, the most popular of these being the Oculus Rift and the HTC VIVE.

 

 

 

These devices are designed to slip over your head and take advantage of your eyesight, replacing your field of view with that of the lenses of the device.

 

They each track the head movement of the user and display the world in conjunction with the position of their head at a 90hz refresh rate.

 

Both of these devices are designed to work with a PC and require rather high-end hardware to effectively run.

 

Further information can be found in the comparison chart above.

 

The HTC VIVE release boasts a 'Room Scale' experience, launching with controllers that can be used to interact with the virtual environment via motion control.

 

The Oculus Rift only launched with the headset, however promises that their 'Oculus Touch' controllers will be made available later this year.

Below are some promotional for either device, hopefully giving a slightly better understanding of what they do to those interested.

 

 

Oculus Rift:

 

 

HTC VIVE:

 

 

This thread was made to discuss everything VR, not just the two aforementioned devices - so discuss away!

 

To kick start the thread, here are some questions:

 

What do you think of Virtual Reality?

 

Have you given Virtual Reality a try?

 

Do you have a favourite Virtual Reality Device?

 

Do you own any Virtual Reality Devices? And if so, do you have favourite games for them?

 

 

To answer a few of my own questions:

 

I preordered an Oculus Rift shortly after the preorders went live and was lucky enough to recieve it in the promised time schedule.

It's an incredible device and something I've dreamt of from a young age.

 

My favourite games to play on the Rift are 'EVE: Valkyrie' & Radial G: 'Racing Revolved', both of these are seated cᴑckpit based games as the Rift does not currently have a selection of games to play in 'Room Scale' VR.

 

To give you an example of these games in action, I've decided to link videos showing both of these games below:

 

 

 

 

[Toast]

Funny story, the first time I've used the oculus rift was like a week ago. The lady was like "if you go far enough in the water you can dip your head inside of it" so I'm like cool I'll give it a try, but when I did it I smashed it onto the table and everyone in the room started laughing :'( not to mention I wasn't even far enough into the water yet

[Munya]

I heard Noad smells, has VR progressed to the point that it can produce smells from the environment it shows?

[Darkshade]

6 minutes ago, Toast said:

Funny story, the first time I've used the oculus rift was like a week ago. The lady was like "if you go far enough in the water you can dip your head inside of it" so I'm like cool I'll give it a try, but when I did it I smashed it onto the table and everyone in the room started laughing :'( not to mention I wasn't even far enough into the water yet

That's pretty amusing, I too have admittedly whacked my head a few times playing (nothing serious though).

 

The HTC VIVE gets around this problem by using a front facing camera and alerting users of the environment around them when they get too close.

Whilst cool, I think it's a pretty minor thing.

 

What did you think of the Rift/VR?

 

4 minutes ago, Munya said:

I heard Noad smells, has VR progressed to the point that it can produce smells from the environment it shows?

 

No it's just Noad, she smells so much that you can smell her even from inside a VR headset ;o

[LifeStyle]

4 minutes ago, Munya said:

I heard Noad smells

Lies, Noad #1

[Toast]

8 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

That's pretty amusing, I too have admittedly whacked my head a few times playing (nothing serious though).

 

The HTC VIVE gets around this problem by using a front facing camera and alerting users of the environment around them when they get too close.

Whilst cool, I think it's a pretty minor thing.

 

What did you think of the Rift/VR?

 

 

No it's just Noad, she smells so much that you can smell her even from inside a VR headset ;o

My experience was pretty basic since it was someone's uni project, didn't get to use it for too long but it was pretty damn cool, confusing at first though

[LiquidFrost]

There is no doubt that VR does have a lot of potential and not just in the gaming industry, we might actually see a lot more of VR in other applications in the coming days, like movies? 

I have been interested in VR as well for quite some time, once the technology becomes more available it will open up a lot of doors, there will be more apps and even operating systems for VR devices alone. We already have some early SDKs for VR app development, I guess? So, yeah VR can be a game-changer for both entertainment and even in the software industry. One more reason to like VR is John Carmack, I am just a huge fan of him and I am sure a lot of other people would agree with this here, his work has actually helped a lot in development of Oculus. He has said it many times that he can see VR becoming a very common and very cheap as well in the coming years. I'd highly recommend watching some of his talks on that, recently he also won Bafta Fellowship and he gave a great speech there and some nice points on VR. 

Sadly, I don't own a VR gaming device right now and probably won't for sometime I guess. But to anybody who wants to get a taste of VR, you can just buy a cheap Google Cardboard and try it with your phone.

 

Edited May 16, 2016 by LiquidFrost

[axx]

20 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

Lies, Noad #1

 

on topic:

i have never used the devices you mention, but i have a bit of experience with haptics interfaces which imo are just as important as the visuals for an integrated experience of the user

Edited May 16, 2016 by axx
forgot a word somewhere in there

[Darkshade]

2 minutes ago, Toast said:

My experience was pretty basic since it was someone's uni project, didn't get to use it for too long but it was pretty damn cool, confusing at first though

It's a shame you didn't get to try out the Oculus Dreamdeck Demo, it's a really good 'first experience' into VR.

 

 

1 minute ago, LiquidFrost said:

There is no doubt that VR does have a lot of potential and not just in the gaming industry, we might actually see a lot more of VR in other applications in the coming days, like movies? 

I have been interested in VR as well for quite some time, once the technology becomes more available it will open up a lot of doors, there will be more apps and even operating systems for VR devices alone. We already have some early SDKs for VR app development, I guess? So, yeah VR can be a game-changer for both entertainment and even in the software industry. One more reason to like VR is John Carmack, I am just a huge fan of him and I am sure a lot of other people would agree with this here, his work has actually helped a lot in development of Oculus. He has said it many times that he can see VR becoming a very common and very cheap as well in the coming years. I'd highly recommend watching some of his talks on that, recently he also won Bafta Fellowship and he gave a great speech there and some nice points on VR. 

Sadly, I don't own a VR device right now and probably won't for sometime I guess. But to anybody who wants to get a taste of VR, you can just buy a cheap Google Cardboard and try it with your phone.

 

Absolutely, John Carmack is a genius; I've watched a few of the talks you speak of, though at the moment he's mostly focusing on 'Gear VR' which is Oculus' answer to Virtual Reality via high-end mobile phones.

 

Carmack is one of the reasons I got behind the Rift as a device and Oculus as a company, although the in-built stereoscopic headphones and 'better comfort' also helped make that choice.

 

There are some short films in Oculus Home (Oculus' own launcher for their software) which are worth a watch, it really is a very special experience to be able to feel as though you're part of the movie.

 

I think for anyone looking to trial VR at a low price, the Google Carboard suggestion is probably the way to go.

 

6 minutes ago, axx said:

 

on topic:

i have never the devices you mention, but i have a bit of experience with haptics interfaces which imo are just as important as the visuals for an integrated experience of the user

I'm pretty jealous, I know there are some VR-Related haptic interfaces in the works at the moment (The one that springs to mind being a 'glove' that prevents finger movement in accordance to the object you're holding in virtual space).

 

I may pick one up if they ever become commercially available/worth the money.

[LiquidFrost]

4 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

Absolutely, John Carmack is a genius; I've watched a few of the talks you speak of, though at the moment he's mostly focusing on 'Gear VR' which is Oculus' answer to Virtual Reality via high-end mobile phones.

 

Carmack is one of the reasons I got behind the Rift as a device and Oculus as a company, although the in-built stereoscopic headphones and 'better comfort' also helped make that choice.

 

There are some short films in Oculus Home (Oculus' own launcher for their software) which are worth a watch, it really is a very special experience to be able to feel as though you're part of the movie.

 

I think for anyone looking to trial VR at a low price, the Google Carboard suggestion is probably the way to go.

It is same for me as well, Carmack is the reason I started following some stuff about VR. From Doom to Armadillo he has done it all, so seeing him betting on a new technology got me all interested. Couple of months ago, there was a great discussion on HN on the future of VR and some of the disadvantages. I just can't seem to find the link for it, neither I remember much about the original post. I'd link it once I find it, I am sure you would like it. 

 

18 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

I'm pretty jealous, I know there are some VR-Related haptic interfaces in the works at the moment (The one that springs to mind being a 'glove' that prevents finger movement in accordance to the object you're holding in virtual space).

 

I may pick one up if they ever become commercially available/worth the money.

I didn't know about haptic interfaces, maybe I will checkout more. But I am damn sure that John Carmack has said it that he has been working on some "position tracking" thing for Rift, I don't know really what is it about though. It would be available in future versions though.

[Darkshade]

6 minutes ago, LiquidFrost said:

It is same for me as well, Carmack is the reason I started following some stuff about VR. From Doom to Armadillo he has done it all, so seeing him betting on a new technology got me all interested. Couple of months ago, there was a great discussion on HN on the future of VR and some of the disadvantages. I just can't seem to find the link for it, neither I remember much about the original post. I'd link it once I find it, I am sure you would like it.

He's not been wrong so far and his work on Binary Space Partitioning in DOOM was revolutionary, he was responsible for quite a big leap in video game visuals ('Faking' 3D) back then and I think that's the reason he's decided to work on VR now; because it's seen as the next step forward in visuals from the point we're at today.

 

If you manage to find the discussion, please do link it here.

 

6 minutes ago, LiquidFrost said:

I didn't know about haptic interfaces, maybe I will checkout more. But I am damn sure that John Carmack has said it that he has been working on some "position tracking" thing for Rift, I don't know really what is it about though. It would be available in future versions though.

Could he have been referring to the Oculus Touch?

 

 

EDIT: I found the device I was referring to, it's called 'Dexmo':

 

 

[Gilan]

Funny little thing happened to me a year ago. I was in one of the UT campus buildings and I saw a book called "Glimpses of Heaven, Visions of Hell" and it was about Virtual Reality (a topic that I am very, very passionate about). I contacted the author of the book (who lives in England) via email, and we talked about VR and it's applications. He was working on VR designed for medical purposes (similar to the medicuboid from SAO, but not at that level), and he talked about how we are probably not gonna see full immersion VR in our lifetimes, which I told him I would devote my life to disprove ;)

 

I love VR a lot (I even did a marketing project on Oculus) and believe we are just scratching the surface of VR at the moment. Once we have a better understanding of the brain and can manipulate certain Neurotransmitters (primarily GABA and glycine which cause Sleep Paralysis), then we could likely create a more immersive and "real" virtual reality. I like to consider the current VR as a fake VR and very primitive.

 

just my thoughts on the subject  =P

[Darkshade]

1 minute ago, Gilan said:

Funny little thing happened to me a year ago. I was in one of the UT campus buildings and I saw a book called "Glimpses of Heaven, Visions of Hell" and it was about Virtual Reality (a topic that I am very, very passionate about). I contacted the author of the book (who lives in England) via email, and we talked about VR and it's applications. He was working on VR designed for medical purposes (similar to the medicuboid from SAO, but not at that level), and he talked about how we are probably not gonna see full immersion VR in our lifetimes, which I told him I would devote my life to disprove ;)

 

I love VR a lot (I even did a marketing project on Oculus) and believe we are just scratching the surface of VR at the moment. Once we have a better understanding of the brain and can manipulate certain Neurotransmitters (primarily GABA and glycine which cause Sleep Paralysis), then we could likely create a more immersive and "real" virtual reality. I like to consider the current VR as a fake VR and very primitive.

 

just my thoughts on the subject  =P

So you're after something closer to SAO's 'Nervegear' than any of the existing VR Experiences available today.

Whilst I'm completely on board with the idea (although potentially dangerous) and think it would provide a much more realistic VR Experience, I also believe that it's probably a long way off.

 

By your definition the existing hardware would certainly be 'Fake VR' but I don't think it's fair to call it primitive, perhaps only in comparison to something like the above would it be.

 

Still, I'm more than happy to be wrong on the subject, I'd love to see that kind of Virtual Reality in the near future.

 

Have you had a chance to try what the current generation of VR has to offer?

 

[Gilan]

1 hour ago, Darkshade said:

Have you had a chance to try what the current generation of VR has to offer?

 

Yeah, having South by Southwest in Austin I get to go and check out all the cool tech stuff that is going on (they also had an exhibit at the Dell Match Play Golf Tournament about a month ago).

 

It's definitely cool, and if I didn't have to buy Textbooks and crap, I would probably get an Oculus Rift.

 

And by primitive, I meant that it really seems like we are on the lowest level of this kind of technology (and that at its core, it's still just a screen in front of your eyes with headphones and motion tracking). The tech that they have put into dealing with motion sickness is actually the most fascinating to me about the current VR equipment.

 

My first exposure to VR was actually from Shark Tank >.< I forget which season it was, but they had a huge massive Guinea Pig Sphere that you could go into while wearing a headset, and it would allow you to "walk" in a virtual world.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Gilan
typo

[Darkshade]

3 minutes ago, Gilan said:

Yeah, having South by Southwest in Austin I get to go and check out all the cool tech stuff that is going on (they also had an exhibit at the Dell Match Play Golf Tournament about a month ago).

 

It's definitely cool, and if I didn't have to buy Textbooks and crap, I would probably get an Oculus Rift.

That's pretty neat, I imagine such textbooks are expensive as the Rift is unfortunately.

 

3 minutes ago, Gilan said:

And by primitive, I meant that it really seems like we are on the lowest level of this kind of technology (and that at its core, it's still just a screen in front of your eyes with headphones and motion tracking). The tech that they have put into dealing with motion sickness is actually the most fascinating to me about the current VR equipment.

Yeah, that's another topic worth talking about - Motion sickness is a real issue in particular games/experiences, and whilst you do become less susceptible to it over time I currently am unable to play 'ADR1FT' for longer than 20 minutes without feeling sick.

 

I do think it's a hurdle that can be overcome though, part of the issue is lack of motion support for the rest of your body.

 

7 minutes ago, Gilan said:

My first exposure to VR was actually from Shark Tank >.< I forget which season it was, but they had a huge massive Guinea Pig Sphere that you could go into while wearing a headset, and it would allow you to "walk" in a virtual world.

Interesting idea.

 

I've been following a lot of 'Omni-directional' treadmills for a little while now, the Virtuix Omni, Cyberith Virtualizer etc.

The one that caught my attention most of all was the 'Infinadeck':

 

 

Whilst it's a long way off from becoming comercially available and will probably be expensive when it is, I think it's currently the best solution to the issue of moving around freely in the virtual world.

[KaynineXL]

So is VR not possible with open world games currently because that would require a lot of open space unless you use one of those treadmills?

 

if that's the case, can you only play games in a small radius?

[Darkshade]

12 hours ago, KaynineXL said:

So is VR not possible with open world games currently because that would require a lot of open space unless you use one of those treadmills?

 

if that's the case, can you only play games in a small radius?

Yes, though a lot of the games for the HTC VIVE allow the user to 'teleport' to a different area once they've explored their current space.

 

 

(See 19:16)

 

I don't believe this to be an effective solution, but it's worth bringing up.

 

Open world games that require you as a player to walk around is not (effectively) possible at this moment in time without those treadmills no - but you can of course use a controller to move around without the need to get up and walk yourself.

 

Unfortunately for games in which you are meant to be walking within the virtual world this is not very immersive, but for those where you're sat inside a vehicle it feels a lot more realistic.

 

Personally, I think omnidirectional treadmills are the way to go - but a full 'VR' setup (including a treadmills) is likely to be very expensive, and I can't see developers supporting them by default.

[RysPicz]

nerds

Spoiler

jk this looks fun, ima give it more careful read tommorow

 

[XelaKebert]

VR itself is a really cool concept, especially from an immersion perspective. I haven't used VR myself, but I have watched a couple Youtubers play games on VR and there are a couple of pitfalls for it currently, but those can be fixed over time. The biggest being the motion tracking. Currently if you move too fast in some game or hold the controllers wrong it can cause some tracking issues, but those are things that can be fixed with calibration. Though they won't completely go away because you would still need the tracking system to have sight of the controllers in order to properly track your movements. Of course, these same tracking issues can be found in more mature items like the Kinect for X-Box 360 anyway, so it may just be that the motion tracking software in general needs to mature more.

 

All in all, VR is really neat and I look forward to seeing what other people do with it.

[Darkshade]

5 hours ago, XelaKebert said:

VR itself is a really cool concept, especially from an immersion perspective. I haven't used VR myself, but I have watched a couple Youtubers play games on VR and there are a couple of pitfalls for it currently, but those can be fixed over time. The biggest being the motion tracking. Currently if you move too fast in some game or hold the controllers wrong it can cause some tracking issues, but those are things that can be fixed with calibration. Though they won't completely go away because you would still need the tracking system to have sight of the controllers in order to properly track your movements. Of course, these same tracking issues can be found in more mature items like the Kinect for X-Box 360 anyway, so it may just be that the motion tracking software in general needs to mature more.

 

All in all, VR is really neat and I look forward to seeing what other people do with it.

I wouldn't say I've had much issue with tracking personally (although it obviously can be a problem with lack of Cameras/Lighthouses) - a lot of this can simply be resolved by adding more.

 

I have to say though, the worst experience I've had in VR was when I was playing EVE: Valkyrie and someone was using up all the bandwidth.

I've never felt so motion sick as much as I did teleporting through space in a very non-consistent and quite jerky fashion.

[Xatu]

Why so much focus on just the headset all the time.  I'm looking forward to full dive virtual reality.  There are already controllers making it possible.

 

 

Using this it adds to the immersion on unspeakable levels.  You actually, jump, and sit.  This is where virtual reality is headed.  And this is just a hack of GTA5 to work in this format.  Games could be specifically developed for this or something similar.  Imagine an MMO where you literally run through the fields and kill for exp based on actually hand eye coordination and real life sword skills.  Sword Art Online was actually pretty accurate in its timing.  Were gonna see alot of this stuff like the virtualizer go mainstream around 2021.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7258105.stm

Edited May 18, 2016 by Xatu

[Darkshade]

53 minutes ago, Xatu said:

Why so much focus on just the headset all the time.  I'm looking forward to full dive virtual reality.  There are already controllers making it possible.

 

Oh no don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly excited for all aspects of VR (Treadmills, Input, etc.) and this thread was created to talk about everything in it.

I think the focus on the headset however is due to it being the first requirement for the rest of VR - everything currently hinges on it's existance.

 

An MMO in VR is a dream of mine, and I'm sure we'll get there in due time.

If you're into treadmills and such, scroll up a little and watch for the video for the Infinadeck - it's on a whole different level from that of the Omni/Virtualizer due to being motorized.

[Xatu]

2 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

 

Oh no don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly excited for all aspects of VR (Treadmills, Input, etc.) and this thread was created to talk about everything in it.

I think the focus on the headset however is due to it being the first requirement for the rest of VR - everything currently hinges on it's existance.

Youre totally right as the technology increases the level of immersion will be greater and greater.  Like in the article I posted, at the current rate of chip shrinkage we will have computers the size of bloodcells or smaller by 2033.  This opens up all sorts of possibilities for VR that uses nano-technology inside the body.  We might see all this physical hardware as sort of a phase leading into that. 

2 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

 

An MMO in VR is a dream of mine, and I'm sure we'll get there in due time.

If you're into treadmills and such, scroll up a little and watch for the video for the Infinadeck - it's on a whole different level from that of the Omni/Virtualizer due to being motorized.

Yeah ive seen the infinapad but i dont find it to be viable outside of an arcade setting because of its size and cost of production. The omni is meh in my book too  because you are always walking at a slant. 

 

Yeah in general though its an amazing field thats being developed extensively right now.  And if you really dream for a VR MMO than why not join the fight?  The original VRMMO's are being developed as we speak, even cyberith is hiring right now and they recently went to silicon valley.  If you have passion for it than get in on it before everyone else does haha.

[LiquidFrost]

@Darkshade, did you saw the Google I/O '16 keynote? Let's discuss already.

[Darkshade]

Apologies for the late replies guys, I've been pretty busy recently.

 

On 5/18/2016 at 10:18 PM, Xatu said:

Youre totally right as the technology increases the level of immersion will be greater and greater.  Like in the article I posted, at the current rate of chip shrinkage we will have computers the size of bloodcells or smaller by 2033.  This opens up all sorts of possibilities for VR that uses nano-technology inside the body.  We might see all this physical hardware as sort of a phase leading into that. 

Biohacking is an interesting one - not something I'm particularly comfortable with personally but if we ever each that stage of technology capability VR might be the thing to sway me. (Doubtful, however)

 

On 5/18/2016 at 10:18 PM, Xatu said:

Yeah ive seen the infinapad but i dont find it to be viable outside of an arcade setting because of its size and cost of production. The omni is meh in my book too  because you are always walking at a slant. 

I agree with you in regards to the Omni, it's the thing that drags it down in immersion.

It does have the cheapest price tag of all of the Omnidirectional treadmills though, so it has that going for it.

 

In regards to the Infinadeck, I can understand your concern with cost and size; you had brought up the topic of immersion though, which I feel the Infinadeck does the best as the motors within it allow for more natural movement.

The Infinadeck team have said they plan on working to lower the price over the next couple of years to produce a cost efficient consumer product.

 

The Cyberith Virtualizer might be the most immersive available consumer treadmill at this moment in time and it's ability to allow for jumping/crouching is a huge bonus, I can't help but feel that the sliders connecting it to the base of the unit (that allow for such movement) are somewhat weak though.

 

Quote

Yeah in general though its an amazing field thats being developed extensively right now.  And if you really dream for a VR MMO than why not join the fight?  The original VRMMO's are being developed as we speak, even cyberith is hiring right now and they recently went to silicon valley.  If you have passion for it than get in on it before everyone else does haha.

Aha, that would be quite the job opportunity.

I want to hone my skillset over the next few years, I'm currently more specialized than I am 'well rounded' or mainstream. (Excluding my understanding of game mechanics and balance etc.)

 

The way things are going at the moment it's looking like being able to work on my skillset might be a distinct possibility.

 

On 5/18/2016 at 10:32 PM, LiquidFrost said:

@Darkshade, did you saw the Google I/O '16 keynote? Let's discuss already.

I did!

 

I assume you're mostly referring to 'Google Daydream', Google attempt at mobile VR.

 

For those who haven't seen it yet:

 

 

I own a Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge+, so I think I'll be able to run it.

I'll likely give it a go at some stage.

 

I imagine that the remote that is demo'd in this video is going to be a requirement for use though, which means purchasing additional peripherals.