JohntheJester

What about a Knock Off slighty buff? Like, to 40 BP? I believe it still won't be broken, as at best it became a 60 BP with stab or item removal boost, 90 BP with both, and 90 BP already considering stab is not a huge deal. Sure, removing items is great, but with Knock off also exists Trick and Switcheroo with simmilar functions and the bonus of giving a mon a (usually) bad item. The only mon that can really abuse highly from that is Scizor, because the move will be 90 BP for him, rarely being 60, but if becames too broken we can deal with it by a single ban. It will still be the move balanced we know, and with some offenses with enough power being able to use it.

Knock Off is one of the most broken moves ever created. It was a gigantic mistake even on its time but we need to remember that Knock Off always existed in an era where reliably at least one Pokemon could hold an item that couldn't be knocked off. In gen 6, it was mega stones. In gen 7, it was teracrystals. Even having a somewhat reliable switch-in to Knock Off made it still stupidly broken and the most splashable move the game has ever had. Also, like Forfi said the buffed Knock Off has never existed without Fairy-type. All things put together, Knock Off is stupidly broken anyways but we're lacking the few things that can even somewhat keep it from becoming the most brainless and spammable move in the game's history. That's why it's reasonable Knock Off was never touched and updated to newer gen mechanics, unlike many other moves.

yea but whenever I'm connected they are not :v

A friend of mine did that, and allow me to share it here:


Bye Legend

This I feel would be the best option, yeah. I'm all up for it ♥

No intention. It does not have to be a limited vanity. It can be gift based. Solely to honour him.
Edit: I was not even thinking of game value. It can be Gift like the Scary Hockey Mask, Pumpkin Bag, Scary clown mask etc and obtainable by doing event or smth

Ngl, this would be cool - RIP legend. 
 
@Rache and @Darkshade, my friends, please 🙂

since Akira Toriyama past away, can we have a green dragon as a memory

Hi everyone ^^

Raffling this comp shiny

Hippowdom
Female
Ivs: 31/31/31/9/29/31
Particle: Pumpcat



 


150K each ticket, should be mailed to Biqueta
Max of 20 Tickets per player

The prize was sent to @DeusBruno

Deadline: 08th April

Good luck everyone!

yea but whenever I'm connected they are not :v

yea but whenever I'm connected they are not :v

I suggest Ban Sacred Sword, let Gallade force to go cc, and keep sharpness 1.5.
 
Pursuit have less pressure on prediction, easier to get revenge kill. Priority move hits more to gallade as well, spetially scarf gallade tring to sweep the game.
 
SD life orb cc can not kill hippowdon, Gallade force to run leaf blade.
 
And if gallade run leaf blade rather than night slash, Acid armor Reuniclus checks it, Gallde was not rely on night slash to kill Reuniclus cz Sacred sword ignore Acid armor, cc can not do that.
 
The idea is let gallade can not cover everything, a bit limitation on that, and not too much.
 
 
 
 

And this is not necessarily bad. You can't expect every threat in the tier to have common answers that deal with them reliably. This shouldn't happen. When it does, it creates extremely stagnant metas centralized in the same defensive cores... (Note how I just describe OU's current state). OU is in a very toxic spot right now. Its players have grown so attached to cores that worked 2-3 years ago, and still work to this day (A few top 10 players are still using teams they had success with 2-3 years ago), that they now refuse to adapt to anything that disrupts them.
 
But I digress. Zapdos is a very solid answer to it, and I expect people to adapt this new Pokemon to better handle Gallade. Gliscor is actually decent, and while it is not a very reliable answer, it vastly helps by pressuring opposing Gallade into needlessly risks, while also maintaining a defensive pressure against it overall. 
 
1- It is funny you mention Lucario and Hydreigon. You cannot actually stop any of them defensively in a reliably way, without either gambling with their set or correctly predicting what they are going to do, something very similar to what happens with Gallade currently. It is not funny you didn't mention Dragonite, because mixed Dragonite has literally no counters, nor any semi-feasible way at stopping it with a slow-defensive team. It is also interesting to note Mixed Dragonite is not even commonly used, mostly because having no counters in a meta dominated by 3 offensive threats (Scizor-Garchomp-Dnite itself) is not as big as some people claim it to be.
 
2- I agree with the premise. Gallade has very few counters. I completely disagree with its conclusion. Having no counters doesn't mean the Pokémon sweeps easily most of the metagame. This doesn't generally happen, and definitely doesn't happen with Gallade. 5 out of the 6 most used Pokemon can reliably prevent Gallade from keeping its momentum, or at the very least create a pressuring factor where Gallade is unable to come in. This by itself invalidates this conclusion, and therefore also invalidates it meeting offensive uber characteristics in the way you have presented.
 
3- Not sure where to start. First, claiming not many people use the forums is a very desperate, and yet false attempt at dismissing the argument. Lots of people use the forums. Some are more vocal than the others. If anything is an issue, you'll see several different people commenting on it. Also, you should read the bolded section of your text, and try to understand why Gallade failed to have an impact so. 
 
4- On the contrary. It is very relevant. It is the most relevant factor whatsoever in this whole discussion. In fact, outside of very few individuals, not many people are complaining about it now. They used to in the past, before the nerfs proved to them Gallade wasn't as harmful as they thought it was. Gallade is a very solid Pokémon, don't get me wrong, but we really can't be nerfing anything new that can be a threat, mostly because it suffers from the new toy syndrome. If Garchomp was to come in right now, even without SD, and attained these numbers, I can guarantee you many more people would complain about it. Either way, even unnerfed Gallade doesn't have impressive enough numbers to justify anything regarding it by themselves.
 
Either way, it is impossible to dismiss whatever happened to this Pokémon while nerfed. It wasn't used much. It wasn't complained about as much. Why? Because it wasn't good enough for it to be either used nor discussed about. Then it was buffed a bit, and it was still not good enough for any of them. This comparison IS the best metric to gauge Gallade's effectiveness in the format, and you simply cannot dismiss it.
 
Regarding the calculations you followed with. At first glance, it may seem that those probabilities's shifts between 1.4x and 1.5x are relevant, when in fact they are not. Besides the fact you'd still be relying on rolls and prediction, literally any other residual damage, including the omni present stealth rocks turns both situations into surefire KOs. In practice, you won't see much difference between the calcs you listed at 1.4x and 1.5x, and I appreciate you for actually proving my point with them. 
 
I will also take advantage of this post to mention TC, or most importantly, whoever is higher up in their hierarchy, in general. While I disagreed at first with the way Sharpness was nerfed, and while I still disagree with how the community wasn't made aware of it beforehand, in hindsight the change made it a lot easier to identify exactly how and if Gallade was/is actually an issue in the tier. Following this example for potential future nerfs is something I now would gladly hope for, but please, please please please please please, this is not something you nor anyone should tread lightly around a very small group of people. If you ever nerf something to some random value later, please inform the whole community of what you are considering to do, and how exactly you plan to do it, and what the alternatives are, so everyone else can help into creating the correct way of an eventual nerf.
 
 
Sorry for the wall of text. I would tldr, but Thinknice would kill me 😞

Gallade was unnerfed in the same update that added the legendary birds, I guess devs may have thought Zapdos would be helpful to deal with Gallade and wanted to test it again. Since Gallade was deemed banworthy with a x1.5 Sharpness boost before the release of Zapdos I suggest discussing how Zapdos affected Gallade in the tier because it's the only thing that changed. A confirmation from devs or TC would be needed though because right now it's uncertain if Gallade can be banned again or not.
 
Personally, I would ban Sharpness from Singles as an ability that makes Gallade an Offensive Uber, it wouldn't even be a complex ban because only Gallade has this ability. Gallade would still be usable in lower tiers and Sharpness Gallade would still be present in Doubles.

1.5x is its original value. Having sharpness at 1.5x is therefore expected.
 
The issue arised when they began changing basic mechanics to better fit their perception of the metagame, opening unwarranted precedents in the future no one asked for. 
 
Sharpness shouldn't have been nerfed to an arbitrary number. I agree with this. But we are beyond that now, and regardless of whether it made sense or not, we gained information upon its nerf. Sharpness was tested at 1.3x, and Gallade dropped hard, pretty much showcasing how much its fears were overblown out of proportions. Then it was tested at 1.4x. It still didn't have any negative impact in the tier, which was the only reason why Sharpness was reverted back to its original value. 
 
They shouldn't have done this, but they did, and neither do you nor I have time machines to prevent what already happened. The best thing we can do is analyze what these nerfs showcased and how relevant these nerfs are in the first place. 1.4x to 1.5x is very negligible. If the Pokemon is an issue now, it would have be an issue then, and yet it wasn't. Not even in the slightest.
 
 
This is not a Gallade issue whatsoever. This is what happens when there is no transparency in most of their decisions regarding new stuff added into the game. This is something they apparently are willing to slowly change for the best, but this isn't a conversation to have in this thread.
 
This can't be more objective at all. Gallade went through 2 different nerfed variants in the format. It failed to have any impact in both. None of these are suppositions, or what ifs, or yada yadas. This happened very recently, and so far no one gave me a solid enough argument as to why a 7% boost in its sharpness moves is enough to turn an overall average Pokémon into the monster some people claim it to be. 
 
You ask me to calculate. Why? Calculations are used to follow-up an argument. They aren't the argument at all, despite what some people choose to believe. 
One can give me different calculations, and yet miss the most fundamental aspect of them all.  How often can that Pokémon force the enemy giving up into that position? How often can the selected move be spammed while minimizing prediction risks? How often is that Pokémon on the field, and once it is, what are the requirements for it to be in there in the first place? And honestly, lots of other factors, because competitive Pokémon lurks deeply into a complex grey area. 
 
A bunch of calculations will never be able to answer this properly, and I really expect people to actually start using them more sparringly, or in tandem with proper arguments for them. 
 
Either way, we literally had the most objective metric for its viability, and it failed miserably at showcasing how good it should be even with a 1.4x boost. I will repeat once more. A 7% damage boost is not significant enough to turn that Pokémon into something truly problematic, therefore, if it didn't prove to be an issue then, it most likely is not an issue now. Finally, the format is even better equiped at dealing with Gallade now than it was then. We gained access to Zapdos, which even though is not the perfect answer, or whatever people like to use to feel comfortable in a game that shouldn't have them in the first place, is solid enough to control Gallade properly. 
 
 

This makes no sense considering the difference in damage between 1.4 and 1.5 is less than half of the range of a roll. 
Yes, 1.5 > 1.4. But you cannot possibly convince me a Pokemon suddenly getting a 7% damage boost jumps from not worthy discussing besides opening the pandora box to nerfing in general to borderline broken. 

a +2 adamant orbed wallbreaker wallbreaks. 
What was even the point here?
If anything, this shows how extremely biased the metagame and this community's mentality is towards a much more defensive gameplay to the point where they complain a wallbreaker does, in fact, break walls once set up. 
 
The only argument that could be said is no longer relevant. Sharpness shouldn't be nerfed to a random boost unused in original games. If it is too strong, it should be outright banned or at least nerfed to some common grounded value. It is not too strong. Its numbers aren't that impressive either. Period. People refusing to adapt shouldn't warrant any ban or any decision whatsoever. 

You are absolutely right, they should all have 16PPs
 

Many of us stopped discussing because, to put it simple, we are not being listened to. And because of Caio but that's a totally different can of worms
 
I thought that the Gallade's reverse nerf was an omen of some new mons/ HAs coming into the game, I had an impression that there's a plan behind it. Oh well

Piss off bro, sometimes I forget stuff

idk, this is a pretty big opportunity for people to spend cash in Chinese vanity, doubt they would miss it, so I'm assuming they are full throttle trying to finish the update as soon as possible

That escalated quickly

Or we could also just focus on having a complete metagame instead of having to nerf xyz. 

But that's like saying Kyurem-B would be good for the game because it would beat stall. The entire point is that basing the argument on "it beats this specific archetype" that is nowhere dominant while ignoring that it also destroys everything else non-stall is like trying to kill a fly that landed on you with a shotgun, it's gonna backfire and make the entire tier unbearable at all Elo ranges.
 
Not to mention that Hydreigon is already really good at beating stall because of its huge movepool at access to both Taunt and Nasty Plot, it doesn't need Draco Meteor to be a wallbreaker, it already fulfilled that role perfectly.