epicdavenport

I would leave Toed and Tales in OU for now. We literally had one chance to get them and they are overall uncommon in the game itself, we do not even have the resources to test them. I believe they should be OU for at least month longer 

Might actually do this I'm off tomorrow. Would love to picture a meta game where primeape and emboar can fill that hole.

Might actually do this I'm off tomorrow. Would love to picture a meta game where primeape and emboar can fill that hole.

Might actually do this I'm off tomorrow. Would love to picture a meta game where primeape and emboar can fill that hole.

We don't have Raikou and Seismitoad doesn't have water absorb.

Just use tapu fini taunt + Nature Madness

Giving Kingler the benefit of the doubt maybe there's potential as a wall breaker?
 
252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 99-117 (49 - 57.9%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 125-148 (68.6 - 81.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 117-140 (68 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 96-114 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Miltank: 87-103 (43 - 50.9%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 107-126 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 66-78 (40.2 - 47.5%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Kingler Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 44-52 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- 3.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 78-94 (38.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
Calcs of some of the more physically defensive mons in NU.

Crab hammer does more than its water type move that gets boosted by sheer force. Should go back to untiered.

Moving up Kingler when it has like 2 moves it gets boosted. Haha
TLDR: Move pool is ass. No need to bump to UU.

@Kyu Any chance we could get a hint at future plans for the first bird or regi?

As we have recently learnt what could potentially be dropping and rising in the tier I would like to take a moment to request a discussion about Venusaur and the consequences it could potentially have if it were to drop. 

Firstly we can talk about the last time Venusaur was in NU and how it effected the tier back then. Pre-HA Venusaur was healthy for the tier had very decent usage and still had reliable checks. The main reason I am bringing this point up is due to those 'checks' now no longer being in the tier. Previously we had access to both clefable and nidoqueen which were great options at stopping venusaur - nidoqueen is no longer here and clefable looks to be moving up. We're losing the best checks to something that was very prevalent in the meta the last time it was around. Currently I can't see many suitable checks and at best I can see altaria and a half check is bronzor which can't keep up with venusaur.

Now let's talk about the addition of it's HA, I don't think I need to mention this too in depth, but we can all see why it's a great ability and the fact there are many viable setters in NU to capitalise and provide sunnyday, Sableye and Whimsicott being the main ones... there are more but i don't think we need to mention past these two. Venu then gets the chance to growth or even sleep anything it wants in the tier with no issue. The threat a correct growth call or sleep into growth provides for venu is seriously so threatening to the tier and the handful of checks for it.

Finally I want to also talk about the potential addition of Gigalith to NU - if both Gigalith and Venusaur are NU we are sure to see a return to weather battles, between sun teams and sand teams gigalith would enable stoutland sandslash teams to run through most of the tier, the fact u can still add venusaur to a team like this make it fit and have a slight answer for opposing sun teams and also have an answer for altaria through weatherball in sand is ridiculous on top to consider.

I don't think Venusaur makes for a healthy meta game and would like to further discuss this in a discussion thread made for Venusaur, since this is just an initial comment I hope TC won't just straight up ignore it and we can have a discussion thread made for this. 

@Kyu Any chance we could get a hint at future plans for the first bird or regi?

I'm not gonna write essays, just please for the sake of NUs sanity, quickban Venusaur

One day, he might surprise me. Until then, I will endure. 
 
Looking forward to Venusaur going up to UU in a couple months once Ninetales finds its rightful home by usage. 

The rewards aren't limited, you can take your time.

Please don't make assumptions until it actually happens, and TC actually responds to it.  The very short time ninetales was NU today was unintentional, it was supposed to automatically be placed in OU.

Now if only we can get the birds! Lower tiers waiting on Moltres.

They will be placed in a TC decided upon tier until we see where they naturally fall, so they will be automatically moved up to OU in some cases.  UU in others, nothing for the garbage ones.

Just want to make sure I understand this correctly:

If (when?) mons like Alakazam, Ninetales, and Politoed get their hidden abilities, they will stay in NU for at least the rest of this month? That seems like a pretty baffling decision to me.

With the nerf to sharpness, now 1.3x instead of 1.5, Gallade has once again been freed in OU.

I don't even really play lower tiers and it bothers me. Something will drop to NU for like 2 months and immediately go up, and then 2 months after this it will be in contention to drop again.. Completely changing the meta over and over. This kinda locks the NU player-base into: Those who are passionate about the tier, those who want to play all tiers, And those who are rich and can adapt to these shifts on the fly (not many competitive PVP players) which also locks how much it can actually grow. I personally thought of some sort of clause where if something drops it can't go back up for X amount of time. Curious on other people's ideas.
 
 
(I am no longer TC so this is not TC asking for some discussion on this, it just hasn't been removed from my profile lol)

So +2 Venu destroys the whole tier without getting revenged killed. The best way to remove sun will rise up in 4 weeks since Porygon Z is freed at the same time. 
 
It forces Golbat, Mantine and Altaria to run alot of special defense aswell as a +SPD Nature while dropping speed and physical bulk (wich made especially Golbat so good at handling alot of base 80 physical attackers, aswell as beeing able to haze vs BD Azumarill.) wich will make dealing with stuff like Hitmonchan, Moxie Honchcrow, Scrafty, etc way harder. 
 
Not even ultra niche stuff like eviolithe, flash fire,  calm Lampent is able to stop it reliable. 
 
You have to commit alot of resources to stop 1(!) set but if you face a set that brings coverage instead of sleep powder you are doomed. 
Sounds fair and fun ngl. 

I had only two interactions with you in this thread and there was no mention of new abilities, so I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Indeed, Assault Vest does not boost Gallade's physical defense. People that run Assault Vest on Gallade use Gallade vs stuff like Hydreigon and Volcarona. There is nothing wrong with that. If Gallade is capable of tanking a Choice Spec Hurricane Kingdra or a Shadow Ball Life Orb Gengar, that's relevant, that's impressive bulk, that's something to talk about.
 
This thread is about Gallade. This means we can talk about SD Gallade. We can talk about Scarf Gallade. We can talk about Assault Vest Gallade. If someone wants to talk about Impish Leftovers Gallade, that's allowed too. We should look at what each set can do and what are the counter plays for each set. If some of the counter plays suggested work for more than one set, that's good, that would mean stopping Gallade is easy. However, if the Gallade's counter plays are few and set limited, in that case there is a problem. That's something to figure out and that's what this thread is for.

Adding to what gb said. Having such dramatic difference between the first 2 months and the third makes the system very prone to drop or to rise Pokemon that, for some reason, had an high or low unnatural usage spike in that third month, as well as locking it into the new tier for 3 more months, only to just come back to the tier he was before once again, pretty much rendering any adaptation process the tier has undergone potentially moot.
 
But the real question is: Why is nothing done about this? Worse. Why is everything being dismissed about this? Suggestions were given, but no effort into looking and discussing at them was done. What is so important about this mess that you absolutely refuse to get it changed? 

They can analyze as much as they want a frozen tier.
But once 20 or so threats drop all at once because how flawed the current system is, every and any analysis they have concluded is ultimately irrelevant because the new tier with all those 20 or so threats is pretty much a complete different tier than the one they have supposedly analyzed.