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Make TC votes public / add suspect tests with community voting

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2 hours ago, EricRasp said:

Ah yes .. Name them, blame them, and shame them! ?


1 hour ago, Munya said:

Pretty much why it will never be required.



We have the right to criticise TC members for making decisions which are illogical from a competitive standpoint. They are supposed to be the backbone of PVP balancing, if we can't question when they do stuff we believe is wrong then what's the point of all these discussion threads?

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8 minutes ago, Munya said:

You don't need to know who voted for what to offer arguments as to why something deserves a ban or doesn't.

Are you even reading the thread?


10 hours ago, Quinn010 said:

we can see what they vote and who we need convice


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14 minutes ago, Munya said:

You don't need to know who voted for what to offer arguments as to why something deserves a ban or doesn't.

Ok so

  • They don't publicly say what they voted.
  • They don't respond when their anonymous vote is questioned..
  • They already make decisions before any discussion thread goes up ( JJ had said this regarding Lucario but a mod removed it lol) 
  • They don't get any negative feedback because they are protected..

And i can go on and on and on. But as Quinn says, why waste my time hammering home points when most of this stuff gets ignored anyway.


I reiterate what is the point in these discussion threads other than making us measly non TC members feel like we have a say in what happens - when it has been shown that we absolutely don't since it's all ignored no matter how active / good we are competitively. 


You can keep saying we are listened to, but they are just words. And actions are louder than words as the old saying goes. And TC's actions don't reflect what they say.

Edited by Lvkee
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So what I'm reading is a lot of frustration regarding the TC's release of Lucario, as well as several community members feeling like they aren't being heard or listened to. I'd like to address each of these 1-by-1 from my perspective as a TC member.


1. Lucario

Several months ago Lucario dropped below OU usage cut-offs and the Tier Council reconsidered its status as BL1 (banned from UU). We looked at the changes the tier has made since it was first made BL1 several years ago, these changes including the introduction of Eviolite, Gen 8 movesets, and new Pokemon (Johto). With these changes we felt comfortable testing Lucario, and a vote was held with approval by the TC. The decision was then made public, but before the game was updated, Lucario's usage rose above the cut-off and it remained OU. Discussion at that time was reviewed and we did witness a few community members arguing against Lucario coming down. Calcs were provided, but despite this, the TC felt that practice and observation was needed to fully consider Lucario in UU. Fast forward to this season, and Lucario once again fell below the cut-off and the TC made the decision to move forward with our decision to release it from BL1. A discussion thread has been opened and there is little discussion unfortunately. Respect to @Havsha for providing a sound argument, but we as a TC have not yet come to a consensus on Lucario's status in UU. This is being discussed daily.


2. Community Input

This is certainly a grey area and we as TC members have little control on the decision making algorithm. Our purpose is to interact with community, discuss amongst ourselves, and then vote. As of right now, I agree that we do a poor job interacting with the community. If you want the community to have a vote, then that's a discussion with staff.

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I was not aware a thread was made for this. Good stuff. However, after reading the thread, I can see that the decision was a done deal before asking community for any input, so it remains riddiculous to ask us to discuss now when you've clearly proven that you do not care. 

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1 minute ago, Munya said:

If they didn't care it would have been easy enough to just say cya the moment we added an activity requirement, I do not think that is the case.

What does that an activity requirement have to do with ignoring the opinions of the players of the competitive scene?

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1 minute ago, Munya said:

They aren't ignoring anything, and have told you so many times. 

Voting on a tiering matter without any prior public discussion = ignoring the players and not caring about their opinion when taking that decision.

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1 minute ago, Munya said:

Listening != agreeing, they listened and were still unsure based off of everything said and decided it was worth a test, which is where we are now, testing it in the tier.

Chronologically, they voted first and then they might have done what you say.

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3 hours ago, RysPicz said:

The job of TC is to be the voice of community and based on the community's input, TC is supposed to make decisions regarding tiering to benefit the metagame the most and create as healthy environment for us, players (and yourselves) as possible. For a longer period of time, TC does not discuss anything with us and the decision with bringing down Lucario despite our very strong voice of disagreement only proves that the playerbase's opinion doesn't mean shit and you will just do what you want. Bringing down Lucario as far as I'm concerned is not something that the upper echelons decided and it was a TC decission, for which you are getting bashed right now from multiple sides and this only proves how angry is the community about the current situation with the council itself along your decisions. Really glad you banned Dugtrio, that was a step forward, but you made 2 steps back by bringing Lucario down to UU.


I am not angry at TC for not banning King's Rock, Bright Powder, Sand Veil or other bullshit like that. I know this is our of your hands guys and the entire tiering system and policies are so fucked up in MMO I can barely find words in any of the 3 languages I know to describe them (and those that come to my mind would probably earn me the last warning). But bringing down Lucario is something we were strongly opposed against and it was your doing.


I don't wanna move the entire discussion about Lucario to this thread but I'll sum it up how I would fix the entire situation:


1. Community-voted polls regarding any suspect threads, just like it is on Showdown.

2. Only active players recruited for Tierlist Council.

3. Quickban Lucario

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4. dary mom


Probably the best post Ive seen regarding this subject

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