[OU Discussion] Snorlax [Test banned]

[DaftCoolio]

3 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

 

Red and purple didnt look great.

 

Snorlax is nothing like blissey, with life orb and specs alot of our current special attackers are able to 3hko snorlax. Blissey has instant recover etc etc. As for walling it we have combinations now that can wall it effectively, slowbro rhydon miltotic skarm metagross to name a few. 2 of these in combination can easily deal with snorlax while at the same time not being overly phased by paralysis, except metagross takes away from his sweeping ability but not his powa.

 

2 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

It was banned before. LF it to get banned again.

 

lmao

[Gunthug]

4 minutes ago, Thunderprime said:

I showed you a similarity between gengar and snorlax that fits uber characteristic because you said they were completely different. I mean if snorlax could only have curse set it still would be a pain, but would not fit in ubers. For me the main treath when I face snorlax is usually a sub set.

I said they were much different in terms of what they're capable of. Again, two pokemon sharing a similarity does not make them comparable in a ban discussion, especially when they are fundamentally different pokemon. To go into this further would be an enormous departure from the point of this thread. Let's focus on lax, and the pokemon that are actually in OU to (attempt to) handle it, don't worry about ubers (unless you wanna talk about blissey. Why is no one talking about blissey?)

 

e: ninjad, last 2 posts talking about blissey

Edited September 20, 2016 by Gunthug

[Gunthug]

6 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

I bring them up because I'm making conversation regarding counters and checks to this individual pokemon and also making comparison about similar pokemon which have been banned already and trying to help correlate the reasons why.

It was banned before. LF it to get banned again.

The fact that it was banned before in a completely different metagame means absolutely nothing lol. I think we banned heracross once, should we ban that again now? There's no need to "make conversation regarding counters and checks" if youre 1. going to list off ubers which aren't usable in OU, and 2. going to list pokemon that ARENT counters, and call them counters

Edited September 20, 2016 by Gunthug

[Thunderprime]

Ow plz chansey complaints are already annoying enough. Snorlax is a great tank yet I think its mostly scarier as a wallbreaker or sweeper

[Hotarubi]

Just now, Gunthug said:

The fact that it was banned before in a completely different metagame means absolutely nothing lol. I think we banned heracross once, should we ban that again now? There's no need to "make conversation regarding counters and checks" if youre 1. going to list off ubers which aren't usable in OU, and 2. going to list pokemon that ARENT counters, and call them counters

Pretty sure I have a valid strategy to wreck any snorlax involving those 3 pokemon.

My point is there is not stable counter to snorlax in this current meta because A its extreme versatility, B its ability to possibly spam curse body slam and devastate pokemon one after the other with RNG.

You should be watching these tournament videos if you will argue the point that Snorlax isn't bad for the meta.

It has ruined several OU ranked matches, and Tournament rounds with its RNG.

[LifeStyle]

2 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

Pretty sure I have a valid strategy to wreck any snorlax involving those 3 pokemon.

Pls further elaborate

[DaftCoolio]

Just now, Hotarubi said:

Pretty sure I have a valid strategy to wreck any snorlax involving those 3 pokemon.

My point is there is not stable counter to snorlax in this current meta because A its extreme versatility, B its ability to possibly spam curse body slam and devastate pokemon one after the other with RNG.

You should be watching these tournament videos if you will argue the point that Snorlax isn't bad for the meta.

It has ruined several OU ranked matches, and Tournament rounds with its RNG.

You can wreck any snorlax now with 3 pokemon. Hell skarm milotic probably does the job in 2 pokemon. Body slam only devastates its checks when people switch in gyarados and heracross and other fragile pokemon. Rng ruins countless matches especially late game with things like aero, it doesn't make it ban worthy

[Thunderprime]

4 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

You can wreck any snorlax now with 3 pokemon. Hell skarm milotic probably does the job in 2 pokemon. Body slam only devastates its checks when people switch in gyarados and heracross and other fragile pokemon. Rng ruins countless matches especially late game with things like aero, it doesn't make it ban worthy

I enjoyed snorlax for a couple months but now it is getting kinda boring (centralized). Do you prefer a meta with skarmory milotic snorlax and 3x pokes? Or one with chansey and 5x pokes? (i'm exagerating a bit I know but still a good view)

[Hotarubi]

11 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

Pls further elaborate

This conversation is no longer about other pokemon outside of the OU TIER

 

9 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

You can wreck any snorlax now with 3 pokemon. Hell skarm milotic probably does the job in 2 pokemon. Body slam only devastates its checks when people switch in gyarados and heracross and other fragile pokemon. Rng ruins countless matches especially late game with things like aero, it doesn't make it ban worthy

So supportive video evidence of it being easily dispatched by those two pokemon?

I would honestly like to see it being quickly easily dispatched by those two pokemon without 25 extra turns made.....

 

 

 

I enjoyed snorlax for a couple months but now it is getting kinda boring (centralized). Do you prefer a meta with skarmory milotic snorlax and 3x pokes? Or one with chansey and 5x pokes? (i'm exagerating a bit I know but still a good view)

 

 

^^^^ I really appreciated that too. Snorlax has kind of made it so that a team without a snorlax in some ways have a disadvantage to a team that has one. That is only my opinion afterall. 

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by Hotarubi

[DaftCoolio]

3 minutes ago, Thunderprime said:

I enjoyed snorlax for a couple months but now it is getting kinda boring (centralized). Do you prefer a meta with skarmory milotic snorlax and 3x pokes? Or one with chansey and 5x pokes? (i'm exagerating a bit I know but still a good view)

i enjoy a metagame with diversity, which is what we have now

 

2 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

So supportive video evidence of it being easily dispatched by those two pokemon?

I would relaly like to see it being quickly easily dispatched by those two pokemon without 25 extra turns made.....

how about 1 turn. skarm used whirlwind. i only regret leaving it at this because i imagine the fire blast comments are being prepared so quickly. milotic rhydon and slowbro can take fire blast the key take away is how a core can be developed easily to deal with lax

Edited September 20, 2016 by DaftCoolio
sorry

[Hotarubi]

3 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

i enjoy a metagame with diversity, which is what we have now

 

how about 1 turn. skarm used whirlwind

 Snorlax every other game is not diversity IMO.

[DaftCoolio]

37 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

 Snorlax every other game is not diversity IMO.

Diversity isn't just about one pokemon but the tier as a whole. Snorlax doesn't restrict any pokemon from being used, the way blissey restricted spatkers or houndoom restricted psychic types (apparently). Snorlax on every other team doesn't necessarily mean the tier is not diverse or that it is over powered it just means its a good pokemon

[Gilan]

Aggron seems like it does pretty well against lax. Not like it really cares about being paralyzed from time to time, yeah it will hurt, but not a whole lot. The only thing it has to watch out for is focus punch (which is only relevant on a switch in) or earthquake. If you determine that it doesn't have either then you can safely switch in 100% of the time, set up a sub and from there it has a nice range of coverage. If you sub-punch, you are still hitting skarm for 27.9-33.1% (max attack Aggron with leftovers vs max hp/def skarm) which is a nice little hit against a physical wall. Against a dusclops (again maxed out defense and HP) it gets in 34.6-41.4% with an iron tail, granted it has to switch out once the sub is broken so as to not get burned, but that's when you send in a flash fire Arcanine/Doom =)

 

With a little special def investment (at the expense of speed, who needs that on a literal tank?) it can even beat out a magneton straight up. Though if it took a couple of hits and is not behind a sub, the magneton has no trouble revenge killing it (but it can't safely switch into the aggron).

 

Though I don't think aggron is actually a viable option to run in the OU meta (dunno, maybe it might be? o.O) I think that it is important for people to figure out their own unique solutions to the issue.

 

 

Like seriously. From my viewpoint, people who are going "Snorlax is cancer, ban his ass", are really saying "I have this team, it's really vulnerable to snorlax, I'm too lazy to try out alternatives so let's just go the easy route and ban it so I just don't have to deal with it".

 

My personal way of dealing with snorlax is by running a really special Zangoose that I researched heavily on what damage I want it to be able to deal to certain pokemon and what it needs to outspeed and what it doesn't. And then built a team around that. Yeah. I built an OU team around an UU pokemon (or NU whatever the hell it is). There is almost always a pokemon that I can bring it out against and set up and proceed to sweep the current OU meta on the opponent's team. And if there isn't, then I make the adjustment and make sure to get it to deal damage against the pokemon that I want it to, so that the other pokemon on the team can handle the situation. The team is tailored to not letting snorlax set up/have good switch ins and get chip damage in for an eventual sweep. It's a rather solid team and the win rate is definitely positive. Nothing on the team is cookie cut from Smogon's website, it's all custom made.

 

It's just that I have a strange feeling that if comps were easier to make in PokeMMO, you wouldn't have as much of a negative opinion of snorlax (as people would be more willing to experiment and develop countering strategies).

 

edit: Like are you yourself going to now make a viable aggron at the expense of your time and yen to simply test to see if it will be a viable solution? My guess is that your answer is "no." And i believe that therein lies the problem. That problem itself is restricting our creativity to known potential solutions (like swagjolt).

Edited September 20, 2016 by Gilan

[OrangeManiac]

3 hours ago, Hotarubi said:

So supportive video evidence of it being easily dispatched by those two pokemon?

I would honestly like to see it being quickly easily dispatched by those two pokemon without 25 extra turns made.....

 

Yeah Coolio, pics or didn't happen. It doesn't help if you reason how something works, GIVE US THE DAMN YOUTUBE TUTORIAL HOW IT WORKS.

 

I enjoyed snorlax for a couple months but now it is getting kinda boring (centralized). Do you prefer a meta with skarmory milotic snorlax and 3x pokes? Or one with chansey and 5x pokes? (i'm exagerating a bit I know but still a good view)

 

Considering you're so excited about concrete evidence I find this comment amazing. Go look at usage statistics of current OU and compare it to the old OU. Unhealthy usage is literally the worst thing you can argue in terms in metagame healthiness if you want Snorlax banned so maybe try another approach next time.

 

 

[DoomedRaven]

3 hours ago, Hotarubi said:

 Snorlax every other game is not diversity IMO.

Neither is Skarmory/Chansey/Gyarados every game, yet they are the ones that require less thought-processing and just easy-win tickets in OU. While we are putting Snorlax in a pedestal because of his usage, the actual problem with Snorlax is that he is way too safe. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by DoomedRaven

[Xatu]

if we just ban snorlax and chansey our OU tier can be comfy for the first time ever.  I mean, atleast chansey can be dealt with.

[DrButler]

6 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

• Does Snorlax sweep the majority of teams?
• Does Snorlax "wall" the majority of teams?
• Does Snorlax regularly provide an unfair advantage when used on opposing teams?
• Does Body Slam paralysis beat opposing teams the majority of the time?
• Does Snorlax and its versatility beat opposing teams the majority of the time?
• Is Snorlax overly centralizing?
• Is Pursuit Snorlax unhealthy for the OU metagame?
• Do players have to rely on gimmicks to beat Snorlax the majority of the time?
• Is there a pokemon that can be brought down from Ubers that can create balance in the OU tier and leviate the reliance we have on Snorlax?
• Does Snorlax remove the autonomy of the average player?

1. It can, but i feel like this is a point that can be controlled pretty safely, so ill just treat it as a "no". But it supports your sweepers by paralayzing enemy pokes by spamming slams.

 

2. It doesnt simply wall them, it threatens them while doing so. Jolteon has to run swagger to be safe, its not the most effective set (in terms of sweeping, it is the most effective in the lax meta - hope you understand what i mean, im not a native english speaker), but its the only safe one, which enables it to stay at a decent 22% usage. Starmie (27%, it wouldnt hit those 27% without being able to spin obviously) can hit 16 recover pp at max, while pursuit has 20 base pp. You can bring it in to spin, when you face the lax you have to start by using recover. If Lax slams you can switch "safely", otherwise its could be a cb lax and the star has a timer on it.

-> 0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 60-72 (35.9 - 43.1%) -- 96.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (careful and no att investment...). cb lax already mentioned. if you get those spdef reductions going or celebrate a critfest you can defeat lax, but im pretty sure nobody wants to rely on that amount of rng, so you can render a pretty common spinner that even puts on a decent amount of special pressure useless,by running. Zam doesnt even need to be mentioned, altough it has insane stats - pursuit lax completely shits on it. Running bands it cant run substitute to scout possible pursuit sets that would at least enable safe switches - Zams out, same for espeon (#diversity). 

 

So it walls special sweepers and while threatening them, can support your sweepers by clicking buttons and use special sweepers to hide behind substitutes. Lax walls special sweepers while it doesnt even have to shift momentum. when running chansey you almost always give up momentum to take a hit.

 

3. with the amount of people souting opposing teams in officials (yes, i know. its a fundamental and individual skill of a competitive player to have other people scout stuff) it does. Lax has such a versatile movepool that you automatically gain an advantage against people in smaller teams with smaller comp pools. You could argue that thats possible for every single poke around, which would be true. The thing that disturbs me with lax is that it already has a stupid amount of impact on teambuilding being the most impactful pokemon in the current meta.

 

4. i dont know if you still follow recent officials lately, but you cant deny that those parahaxes have an insane impact on the flows of a battle. As mentioned in 1, the support those haxes offer are insane. Ofc other people can proide too (looking at you chansey), but theres a high chance that you give up momentum in order to do so. Lax doesnt guarantee the para, but it has a 30% to do so without any risk involved.

 

5. depends, as somebody mentioned milotic + skarm seems to be pretty safe. i dont wanna be forced to run those 2 every single battle to be sure that lax doesnt 1v6 tho. its versatility doesnt single handedly beat opposing teams, but in order to avoid those cases it harshly cuts diversity.

 

6. the only people being able to answer that question are people who have access to usage statistics, so i think this point will be discussed very subejective(ly?) anyway, i would say yes. i, and i doubt i am the only person feeling that way, worry about lax the most. the problem is its versatility + bodyslam. other physical sweepers have safe counters or checks, lax doesnt. i know that rng is part of it, but laxes pool and the amount of rng it is able to provide forces me to run comps i dont want to run. if you watch recent officials it will probably be lax who has the biggest impact in games most of the times. as i said, this is my subjective point of view and the only way of pin pointing if it does are statistcs, which i simply cant provide.

 

7. not sure about that one tbh. i mean stamie had 27% usage, so people dont abuse cb pursuit to hard atm i guess. zam and espeon arent played too much lately, which i would think is related to pursuit lax. well, at least thats my reason to let zam guard the box. starmie has a better stand against pursuit, because the only set threatening it is the cb one. i think with forre we have another very strong spinner tho, so i wouldnt say that pursuit hurts spinning too much. zam and espeon are pretty sad, but those 2 dont justify calling pursuit on lax unhealthy. i mean lax is even one of the better pursuit pokes to face, due to its base speed allowing you to get another hit out.

 

8. nope

 

9. i didnt play in a meta where any of them have been around and since i dont play dubs i wont bother wasting time on them - i pass.

 

10. cant think of any poke that does, so that question seems to be a "no, it doesnt" - "see, lax is healthy"- case.

 

5 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Why complain about Body Slam paralysis when there are numerous other game changing RNG strategies available? Is it because it's popular right now?

No idea if you provoke on purpose, but that "Is it because its popular right now?" part sounds fkn arrogant.

 

5 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Snorlax provides versatility which can stop certain counter sets, but you have to take into account that a change in moveset limits Snorlax in a lot of different ways. Considering this, Snorlax is limited by the incredible number of checks it has to the point that it really just relies on Body Slam for the remainder of the meta.

Snorlax only being able to rely on bodyslam is a worst case scenario, that worst case doesnt even sound too bad tho, because it can still provide team support by spreading paralyze and it can still wall special sweepers. I mean lets assume you run bodyslam + fireblast. Do you mind your opponent running a rhydon? I wouldnt because lax can still deliver what i mentioned above and covering your lax lacking surf is easier than covering an opposing lax running surf when you want to counter it with rhydon. "...limits snorlax in a lot of different ways."... Poor lax, that limitation really seems tu hurt considering those 41%.

 

6 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Milotic with Haze hard counters nearly every Snorlax set we've seen. 

So we should all run haze milotics now? Theres things that sound more exciting than lax and milo sitting at 41%. #diversity

I also dont know how you can consider milo a hard counter. Two pokes looking at each other for 30 turns doesnt have anything to do with counterplay being involved.

 

6 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

This is not a viable argument for it to be banned. 

Is is easier to say an argument is invalid than not even offering valid arguments and just denying. I mean before considering running bold magnetons (hello fire blast btw) id stop playing ou. Even if it doesnt run fire attacks it deals more dmg to you than you can deal to lax. Shifting evs towards HP doesnt change anything and lax can still run substitute, so your twave, ye.

 

0 SpA Snorlax Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magneton: 34-41 (27.2 - 32.8%) -- 85.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Your lame poli NU comparison also doesnt seem like a valid argument, because theres multiple reasons people want lax to be gone, not just bodyslam and NU having several ghost types that are viable and OU having one doesnt help defending bodyslam either.

[Gilan]

10 hours ago, Xatu said:

tl; dr ban chansey and snorlax problem solved.

 

8 hours ago, Xatu said:

16 pages with everyone saying pretty much the same thing.  Let's ban Snorlax.

 

58 minutes ago, Xatu said:

if we just ban snorlax and chansey our OU tier can be comfy for the first time ever.  I mean, atleast chansey can be dealt with.

 

So when lax gets banned, are you planning on taking the credit for it... or what? If you aren't going to add anything to the discussion I don't see why you feel the need to essentially post the same exact thing three times in a row all within 12 hours.

[DoubleJ]

30 minutes ago, DrButler said:

1. It can, but i feel like this is a point that can be controlled pretty safely, so ill just treat it as a "no". But it supports your sweepers by paralayzing enemy pokes by spamming slams.

30% chance of paralysis doesn't guarantee a paralysis. Your statement suggests a possible "uber support" characteristic. If that's how you feel, I would suggest nominating a ban from that standpoint. 

 

30 minutes ago, DrButler said:

 

2. It doesnt simply wall them, it threatens them while doing so. Jolteon has to run swagger to be safe, its not the most effective set (in terms of sweeping, it is the most effective in the lax meta - hope you understand what i mean, im not a native english speaker), but its the only safe one, which enables it to stay at a decent 22% usage. Starmie (27%, it wouldnt hit those 27% without being able to spin obviously) can hit 16 recover pp at max, while pursuit has 20 base pp. You can bring it in to spin, when you face the lax you have to start by using recover. If Lax slams you can switch "safely", otherwise its could be a cb lax and the star has a timer on it.

-> 0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 60-72 (35.9 - 43.1%) -- 96.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (careful and no att investment...). cb lax already mentioned. if you get those spdef reductions going or celebrate a critfest you can defeat lax, but im pretty sure nobody wants to rely on that amount of rng, so you can render a pretty common spinner that even puts on a decent amount of special pressure useless,by running. Zam doesnt even need to be mentioned, altough it has insane stats - pursuit lax completely shits on it. Running bands it cant run substitute to scout possible pursuit sets that would at least enable safe switches - Zams out,

same for espeon (#diversity). 

 

So it walls special sweepers and while threatening them, can support your sweepers by clicking buttons and use special sweepers to hide behind substitutes. Lax walls special sweepers while it doesnt even have to shift momentum. when running chansey you almost always give up momentum to take a hit.

What everyone fails to see is that Snorlax just doesn't wall special attackers throughout the entire duration of a match, like a Chansey or a Blissey. For instance, with just one third damage and a single layer of spikes, Snorlax can no longer switch in on a Jolteon Thunderbolt. Saying that it "walls" special attackers only holds true at the beginning of a match when its health is still 100%. 

 

252 SpA Life Orb Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 69-82 (29.2 - 34.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

 

30 minutes ago, DrButler said:

4. i dont know if you still follow recent officials lately, but you cant deny that those parahaxes have an insane impact on the flows of a battle. As mentioned in 1, the support those haxes offer are insane. Ofc other people can proide too (looking at you chansey), but theres a high chance that you give up momentum in order to do so. Lax doesnt guarantee the para, but it has a 30% to do so without any risk involved.

Another proposal that the RNG in Snorlax' Body Slam could justify an uber support characteristic ban. 

 

30 minutes ago, DrButler said:

5. depends, as somebody mentioned milotic + skarm seems to be pretty safe. i dont wanna be forced to run those 2 every single battle to be sure that lax doesnt 1v6 tho. its versatility doesnt single handedly beat opposing teams, but in order to avoid those cases it harshly cuts diversity.

It doesn't mean that you have specifically have to run Milotic. As stated there are plenty of different pokemon that can check a number of Snorlax sets. Milotic just happens to be the best at it if you just can't handle Snorlax and need the safest switch in possible. 

 

30 minutes ago, DrButler said:

No idea if you provoke on purpose, but that "Is it because its popular right now?" part sounds fkn arrogant.

Not being a native English speaker, I would suggest to avoid placing emotion on statements.

 

30 minutes ago, DrButler said:

 

Snorlax only being able to rely on bodyslam is a worst case scenario, that worst case doesnt even sound too bad tho, because it can still provide team support by spreading paralyze and it can still wall special sweepers. I mean lets assume you run bodyslam + fireblast. Do you mind your opponent running a rhydon? I wouldnt because lax can still deliver what i mentioned above and covering your lax lacking surf is easier than covering an opposing lax running surf when you want to counter it with rhydon. "...limits snorlax in a lot of different ways."... Poor lax, that limitation really seems tu hurt considering those 41%.

It does hurt when you consider Snorlax is unable to use its best sets because players can stop them quite easily. While Body Slam paralysis is detrimental, does it truly hinder game play any more than say a critical hit?

 

30 minutes ago, DrButler said:

So we should all run haze milotics now? Theres things that sound more exciting than lax and milo sitting at 41%. #diversity

I also dont know how you can consider milo a hard counter. Two pokes looking at each other for 30 turns doesnt have anything to do with counterplay being involved.

See above. 

 

30 minutes ago, DrButler said:

 

Is is easier to say an argument is invalid than not even offering valid arguments and just denying.

 

So you're saying that we should ban pokemon because they make the game less fun?

 

30 minutes ago, DrButler said:

Your lame poli NU comparison also doesnt seem like a valid argument, because theres multiple reasons people want lax to be gone, not just bodyslam and NU having several ghost types that are viable and OU having one doesnt help defending bodyslam either.

It was a mere analogy to show that Body Slam paralysis isn't the game changing component everyone is viewing it as right now. 

 

 

 

tl;dr It seems you too are prone to the idea that Snorlax is unhealthy for the tier because it can spam Body Slam paralysis. 

 

It's just not fun to get haxed, but it is a part of this game. Maybe the player base can adjust by running a cleric alongside their wall breakers in order to pressure the numerous tanks and walls that are ran. There are a number of pokemon that can support our bulky Snorlax counters through Wish + Heal Bell/Aromatherapy. Maybe the player base will start running Wish Vap alongside Heracross and Flygon. We just don't know, but I would say it's a pretty viable option right now. 

[gbwead]

3 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

Considering you're so excited about concrete evidence I find this comment amazing. Go look at usage statistics of current OU and compare it to the old OU. Unhealthy usage is literally the worst thing you can argue in terms in metagame healthiness if you want Snorlax banned so maybe try another approach next time.

That is not concrete evidence. How can you know if the "healthy usage" we have right now is the direct result of Snorlax being in the meta and not the implementation of Shed Shell, Life Ball, Swift Choice Band, Special Choice Band, Milotic, Typhlosion, Feraligatr, Meganium, Pin Missile and Sturdy? All these new elements of our metagame were not implemented all at once which implies the players have been forced to adapt and they have been forced to look for new strategies on a constant basis. This apparent diversity of our current metagame and the fun "aspect" that have been mentionned reflect the undeniable chaos caused by these implementations. 

Iirc, during the "chansey meta" where Chansey was not even the most used pokemon, we didn't get new pokemons, new items, new mechanics and we didn't have any ban for the longest time. The same can't be said about the current OU meta, so let's not compare apples and oranges.

Spoiler

You got that, Orange!

Spoiler

Sorry, I had to. kek

 

Edit: I agree that unhealthy claims should not be based on usage. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by gbwead

[DoubleJ]

 

6 hours ago, gbwead said:

 

The same can't be said about the current OU meta, so let's not compare apples and oranges.

 

If there is currently an "undeniable chaos" then shouldn't we wait to propose any bans until the meta has stabilized and players have learned how to use these new items, mechanics, and pokemon? 

[Rache]

Keep the convesation focused on Snorlax. This isn't the place for personal disputes.

[DrButler]

5 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

30% chance of paralysis doesn't guarantee a paralysis. Your statement suggests a possible "uber support" characteristic. If that's how you feel, I would suggest nominating a ban from that standpoint. 

Never said that para is guaranteed, but being able to spam bodyslam without any risk is a way to support your sweepers longterm.

 

8 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

What everyone fails to see is that Snorlax just doesn't wall special attackers throughout the entire duration of a match, like a Chansey or a Blissey. For instance, with just one third damage and a single layer of spikes, Snorlax can no longer switch in on a Jolteon Thunderbolt. Saying that it "walls" special attackers only holds true at the beginning of a match when its health is still 100%. 

wp

 

11 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

It doesn't mean that you have specifically have to run Milotic. As stated there are plenty of different pokemon that can check a number of Snorlax sets. Milotic just happens to be the best at it if you just can't handle Snorlax and need the safest switch in possible.

Milo seems to be the only reliable one tho and id ofc want to run the most reliable one.

 

15 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Not being a native English speaker, I would suggest to avoid placing emotion on statements.

mb, but thats why i said it sounds instead of it is.

 

16 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

It does hurt when you consider Snorlax is unable to use its best sets because players can stop them quite easily. While Body Slam paralysis is detrimental, does it truly hinder game play any more than say a critical hit?

The core of every norlax set is bodyslam. Nobody would run lax without bodyslam, people wouldnt give a fk if it didnt have fire blast or surf available tho. I dont see where lax gets hindered tbh. Sure it loses the ability to counter its checks/counters, but it still provides team support and has the ability to turn battles around being a rng magnet.

19 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

So you're saying that we should ban pokemon because they make the game less fun?

Did i say you were wrong?

20 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

It was a mere analogy to show that Body Slam paralysis isn't the game changing component everyone is viewing it as right now.

In ou it actually is considering that the only viable ghost type is dusclops, thats what i didnt like about that comparison, or analogy if you want so.

 

26 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

tl;dr It seems you too are prone to the idea that Snorlax is unhealthy for the tier because it can spam Body Slam paralysis. 

Thats not true and i think it should be obvious that i dont think that way. I mentioned that theres too much lax has to offer several times, so im not gonna discuss that point again. I cant think of a poke that provides as much as lax does atm. Bulk to take on special sweepers, damage, late game sweeping potential, possibility of spreading haxes, recovery and wall breaking.

[DoubleJ]

1 minute ago, DrButler said:

 

Thats not true and i think it should be obvious that i dont think that way. I mentioned that theres too much lax has to offer several times, so im not gonna discuss that point again. I cant think of a poke that provides as much as lax does atm. Bulk to take on special sweepers, damage, late game sweeping potential, possibility of spreading haxes, recovery and wall breaking.

It's just a damn good pokemon. 

[Draekyn]

8 hours ago, Gilan said:

at worst for me, I just trade 1 for 1 against a lax...)

Against whom though? :-)