Addressing Economic Concerns and Player Morale in Pokemmo

[MightyMichele]

Hello everyone,

 

I believe that part of the enjoyment in the game comes from players having more Pokeyen, allowing them to invest in old vanities and potentially prosper. However, it has become apparent that holding onto a variety of vanities has become challenging, as only certain ones have experienced growth. This raises the question: Are players lacking enough Pokeyen to increase the value of old vanities, or are we simply facing economic challenges within the game?

 

I've noticed that some players are feeling disheartened by the lack of growth in the value of their items. While it's understandable to maintain a balanced economy within the game, it's important to consider the impact on player morale.

 

It's possible that the introduction of alphas in 2022 has played a role in this situation. Alphas possess multiple enticing features, including shininess, free IVs, free candies, and hidden abilities, which may have diverted player attention and resources.

 

In light of these concerns, I suggest a modest adjustment to discourage alpha hunting by making rarer or putting apart the free EXP. CANDIES rewards. This could potentially redirect players' focus to other enriching activities such as gym grind.

 

Overall, I want to express my appreciation for the game and the updates it receives each year. I eagerly anticipate seeing what new features are in store for the future.

 

Thank you for considering these suggestions.

 

Best regards,

Mightymichele

Edited March 21 by MightyMichele

[Summrs]

The economy is poor because you can simply purchase poke dollars with irl dollars, not because of exp candies from alphas...

[caioxlive13]

2 hours ago, Summrs said:

The economy is poor because you can simply purchase poke dollars with irl dollars, not because of exp candies from alphas...

That isn't RMT... Oh i get it, you buy RP and then sell on GTL. If this way, then yea, there is a legit way to buy Pokédollars, not directly but indirectly  

[OrangeManiac]

I don't think I have ever seen an economy-related suggestion getting everything this wrong in forums before.

 

First of all, you don't deserve getting your investments getting raised in value. Like every economic investment, it's a gamble. Based on the fact that some people have made profit with this strategy, doesn't mean you are entitled to get rewarded just for buying a vanity and holding on for it a long time.

 

The reason why vanities even have raised in value before is that (some) people have had more money than they have known where to use it for. The hint is on the name, it's a vanity item. You don't need it for anything. However, because people had more money than uses for the money, they started using that money for vanities. Because there were more and more players with too much money, people were able to ask high prices for old limited vanities.

 

The fact that even old limited vanities have lost a bit of value recently means that people actually are using Pokeyen for game-related things. From MMO economy point of view, that's a great thing. You don't want an over-inflated game because then everyone has money and the money is basically useless. You were able to see this effect a lot in GTL. Sometimes the cost of buying a ready competitive Pokemon was cheaper than making one for yourself. Breeding braces was one of the main money sinks in the game and people clearly rather than wanting to buy comps were trying to get rid of them by sometimes selling them at a net loss. Yes, part of it can also be that the bubble has burst. Everyone was investing into vanities with the expectation it "has to increase in value". Well guess what, if everyone invests with this mindset, the opposite will happen.

 

Yeah, a lot of my vanity investment have lost in value. Almost all of them recently. I'm not gonna cry about it. I can at least appreciate people have clearly some better things to do with their money now.

[Goku]

Pro tip. Do not invest in mehh vanities. If you're making investments you need to look at the 2 most important things. #1 Being the aetheticness of the vanity. Is this a good looking / pleasing / cool vanity? What does the community think.

#2 Is the vanity hard to obtain... will it be valueable in the near future not because of it looks, but it's seriously hard to obtain and there aren't as many as the others...

 

In #1's case have a look at the shadow bone club and the unity capes. They are very desired and the reason for this is that they're aesthetically pleasing... so they rise. I can tell you now this will most definitely happen with the lucky dragons as they are basically the first limited ''Bicycle Vanity" and look great.

 

In #2's case we'll have a look at vanities such as White Rabbit Plush and Temporal Cape. Their value does not come from how they look but rather their rarity. It was significantly hard obtaining them and so there are less and the demand for them is decent. So yes they have great growth potential.

 

When looking at the circumstances of these vanities you can make a very good assessment that they will most certainly quadruple in value if not more in a few years time. This is also a main reason for the older vanities not rising as quickly. When you're making an investment... are you going to spend 1.5 billion on an older vanity that might be 3 bil in 2 years... or are you going to take the 1.5 bil and spend it on  70 new rare / cool vanities that have potential to quadruple in value in the same time span. The more players who work on this idea increase the price without even realizing it because what they are doing is effectively controlling the demand by manipulating the numbers if they hoarded the majority of it.

 

As for your question regarding alphas... I don't see them affecting the economy as much... their purpose is mostly just the hidden abilities of course and aesthetically different. Maybe in the beginning when we weren't sure whether the starters or others were limited or not and that affected the demand substantially.This however was not the case and we saw that the market for them took a bit of a hit.

 

Edit: If you want to efficiently increase your wealth.. Grind and farm gyms and buy new desired vanities that have amazing opportunity for growth as opposed to investing in old vanities and hoping to make profit. Older vanities are end game and should not be considered as quick profit investments.

Edited March 19 by Goku

[LeZenor]

On 3/17/2024 at 4:09 AM, OrangeManiac said:

I don't think I have ever seen an economy-related suggestion getting everything this wrong in forums before.

It gets everything wrong because it’s not a fair and logical argument, she’s arguing in bad faith. She’s not really worried about the "state of the game’s economy", she’s worried about her personal investments. That whole story is made up to make it seem less like a selfish request. She is suggesting the removal of an existing feature to make it harder for everyone and especially newer players to grind money because according to her, those players should only limit themselves to grind long and tedious gym leaders to earn a dime while she can watch her investment go up by doing absolutely nothing like she thinks she deserves. Alphas and/or exp candies causing vanities to drop in price is an extremely big stretch and is the least of our worries in regards to the game economy.
 

It truly is an elitist suggestion and it is in all honesty very disgusting and disingenuous. 

Edited March 19 by LeZenor

[DrakeHope]

6 minutes ago, LeZenor said:

It gets everything wrong because it’s not a fair and logical argument, she’s arguing in bad faith. She’s not really worried about the "state of the game’s economy", she’s worried about her personal investments. That whole story is made up to make it seem less like a selfish request. She is suggesting the removal of an existing feature to make it harder for everyone and especially newer players to grind money because according to her, those players should only limit themselves to grind long and tedious gym leaders to earn a dime while she can watch her investment go up by doing absolutely nothing like she thinks she deserves. Alphas and/or exp candies causing vanities to drop in price is an extremely big stretch and is the least of our worries in regards to the game economy.
 

It truly is an elitist suggestion and it is in all honesty very disgusting and disingenuous. 

Bro i'm poor give me money so i invest and become rich

[Quakkz]

in my own words:

so much bullshit in a single suggestion

 

if you want to read a more polite and sensible response, orangemaniac said everything right that there is about to say.

Edited March 19 by Quakkz

[XanarchyNL]

Skill issue

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, LeZenor said:

It truly is an elitist suggestion and it is in all honesty very disgusting and disingenuous. 

I indeed agree that this suggestion is elitist, Although they could remove the Exp candys from Alphas and put them as Raid Rewards, to increase their rarity and decrease interess on "Hey , this alpha is trash but i'm going to it just because candys" to reduce people catching it and increase a little the comps mons and pve mons value, that has decreased since Alphas(Decreased the multiple x31 costs, that was one of the most expensive things in breeds) and Account box(No need for multiple PvE mons on all characters, having one of each works.). The Alphas's EXP candys didn't affected in absolutely nothing the Vanity Market, but it affects negatively the Pokémon Market due to reasons above. Just to give an clear example before someone argues that it didn't do nothing: Garchomp before alphas and the Acc box was 300+k if lvl 100. After Alphas it decreased because it was significatively cheaper to breed one. With account box, it decreased more since who had extra ones now is selling the excedents. Now we can't sell a full trained lvl 100 chomp for more than 150k. On removing candys, alphas reduce their circulation a bit and it increases the breeding cost causing the mon to get value.  

However, i don't think you can complain about elitism because... Do i really need to explain why people that support and play elitist tours (OUVItational)  can't complain about the elitism if it's a thing they literally does? You can argue the suggestion is wrong, i recognize it. You can argue that she is being selfish, it's okay. But elitism? That no, you aren't in the position to complain about that.

[LeZenor]

57 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

However, i don't think you can complain about elitism because... Do i really need to explain why people that support and play elitist tours (OUVItational)  can't complain about the elitism if it's a thing they literally does? You can argue the suggestion is wrong, i recognize it. You can argue that she is being selfish, it's okay. But elitism? That no, you aren't in the position to complain about that.

This is extremely irrelevant to the topic and also you should get your facts right because I did not even play that tour lol

[IsntJoosh]

broo what 💀

[BrokenJoker]

8 hours ago, Quakkz said:

in my own words:

so much bullshit in a single suggestion

 

Edited March 20 by BrokenJoker

[MysteriousSoul]

Thats what u call skill issue

[Transendence]

15 hours ago, Goku said:

Pro tip. Do not invest in mehh vanities. If you're making investments you need to look at the 2 most important things. #1 Being the aetheticness of the vanity. Is this a good looking / pleasing / cool vanity? What does the community think.

#2 Is the vanity hard to obtain... will it be valueable in the near future not because of it looks, but it's seriously hard to obtain and there aren't as many as the others...

 

In #1's case have a look at the shadow bone club and the unity capes. They are very desired and the reason for this is that they're aesthetically pleasing... so they rise. I can tell you now this will most definitely happen with the lucky dragons as they are basically the first limited ''Bicycle Vanity" and look great.

 

In #2's case we'll have a look at vanities such as White Rabbit Plush and Temporal Cape. Their value does not come from how they look but rather their rarity. It was significantly hard obtaining them and so there are less and the demand for them is decent. So yes they have great growth potential.

 

When looking at the circumstances of these vanities you can make a very good assessment that they will most certainly quadruple in value if not more in a few years time. This is also a main reason for the older vanities not rising as quickly. When you're making an investment... are you going to spend 1.5 billion on an older vanity that might be 3 bil in 2 years... or are you going to take the 1.5 bil and spend it on  70 new rare / cool vanities that have potential to quadruple in value in the same time span. The more players who work on this idea increase the price without even realizing it because what they are doing is effectively controlling the demand by manipulating the numbers if they hoarded the majority of it.

 

As for your question regarding alphas... I don't see them affecting the economy as much... their purpose is mostly just the hidden abilities of course and aesthetically different. Maybe in the beginning when we weren't sure whether the starters or others were limited or not and that affected the demand substantially.This however was not the case and we saw that the market for them took a bit of a hit.

 

Edit: If you want to efficiently increase your wealth.. Grind and farm gyms and buy new desired vanities that have amazing opportunity for growth as opposed to investing in old vanities and hoping to make profit. Older vanities are end game and should not be considered as quick profit investments.

i totally agree except for one thing, the rabbit plush is aesthetic as hell, and I personally think it looks even better than a kyu hat, which, for me, adds to it's value

[MightyMichele]

On 3/19/2024 at 5:27 PM, Goku said:

As for your question regarding alphas... I don't see them affecting the economy as much... their purpose is mostly just the hidden abilities of course and aesthetically different. Maybe in the beginning when we weren't sure whether the starters or others were limited or not and that affected the demand substantially.This however was not the case and we saw that the market for them took a bit of a hit.

Hi Goku, thank you for the input.

 Regarding alphas:

It may be that the constant influx of players logging in to catch Alphas each day may be impacting the PokeYen economy.

 

 

Initially, catching Alphas often necessitates the purchase of expensive Pokeballs like Timer Balls ($1,300 each). The Alpha rewarded EXP CANDY on catch may be sold to other players on GTL for help offset the initial investment in Pokeballs, creating a cycle where players don't need to grind for PokeYen to finance their Alpha-catching endeavors. In the end,  there's a notable decline in the PokeYen from players selling "free" EXP candy (also collected using alts) to other players that just want to level up the monster.

 

 

 

 

On 3/19/2024 at 7:06 PM, LeZenor said:

 

It truly is an elitist suggestion and it is in all honesty very disgusting and disingenuous. 

Yo @LeZenor I am sorry to hear that you found my previous post elitist or that caused any offense. That was not my intention. My goal is to raise awareness about a potential issue within the economy. I believe it's important for us as a community to discuss these matters openly and respectfully, without anyone feeling marginalized or attacked. If my words were misconstrued, I sincerely regret it and I'm open to clarifying any misunderstandings. I'm up to reply you and continue this conversation constructively, keeping in mind that we all share a common interest for support our PokeMMO on these forums.

On 3/19/2024 at 9:59 PM, LeZenor said:

She is suggesting the removal of an existing feature to make it harder for everyone and especially newer players to grind money because according to her, those players should only limit themselves to grind long and tedious gym leaders to earn a dime while she can watch her investment go up by doing absolutely nothing like she thinks she deserves. Alphas and/or exp candies causing vanities to drop in price is an extremely big stretch and is the least of our worries in regards to the game economy.

I believe there may have been a misunderstanding. I don't think we should remove any existing features, rather discussing a potential impact on the game economy.

Personally, I find gym battles enjoyable and rewarding, and they provide a consistent amount of PokeYen. My intention is not to devalue anyone's preferred method of grind, but rather to have a discussion on how we can maintain a healthy economy for everyone, regardless of playstyle.

 

This concern isn't centered about my own finances, but about the broader community— I know that many are discouraged from grind as they've seen their funds dwindle in past years, a couple of times struggling to predict the economy.

 

Best regards,

MighthMichele 

Edited March 21 by MightyMichele

[Xratello]

I have many Friends who started again and when you ask em...they absolutely Love Alphas for what they are...Free iv+ Candy..

 

Most brokies wont use Candys for themselfs and sell them for Profit and my question is...why do you want to ,,reditect" ppl to Gym Grind?

 

The Gym Grind is the Most boring stuff... I usually hate myself while doing it and i dont want ppl to experience this slavery...Like fr 

 

Once you do it for 3h a day every day in a year you cant stand this anymore...at least this is my experience and Standpoint...

 

However...brokies cant Invest into Skull scythe or stuff...this Thing is over ,If you dont Slave away ¾ of your day ingame...your only Chance to pull yourself an ,,OG SKIN" is to be lucky or Grind Event as hell...

 

What do you need for Events? 

Mons....

Whats best for Mon breeds for cheap Money?

Guess what...Alphas....

And Candy is eazy Money...this EZ Money is then Later used for their breeds/they buy Mons from gtl..

 

So they added a way to make Money If you Login 2-3x a day and be smart...why do you want to Take that from us @MightyMichele ? 

 

I really don't want to Grind gyms anymore...i get PTSD from These rooms...

[MightyMichele]

Hi@Xratello. Yeah, I empathize with you. I agree that Alphas play a significant role in the game, however my suggestion isn't meant to undermine the importance of Alphas or restrict players' ability to thrive, but looking for discuss whether we have the balance in the variety of methods of make PokeYen to keep our enjoyable gameplay on PokeMMO while preserving the game's economic stability.

Edited March 21 by MightyMichele

[Xratello]

Hm...i see where your Idea is comeing from and ,,free exp Candy + 2x31(Minimum) might be OP" but there is also ppl who Play like 3-5h a week. I dont see the necessity to slave away in gyms for Money.. some gymrerun here and there is fine..but to be dependent on one thing allways sucks...

 

I'm just looking forward..the raids will Change things again BIG TIME so E4&gyms play less of a role in endgame...

 

This is what i see... gyms/alpha is for starters bc we have nice mecanics you can exploit to your Advantage and make EZ Money...but you burn your time and soul while doing it(talking gyms here)

 

E4 Issa different breed man...These guys are cracked xD they are fine...Same goes for my lovely ho-oh/Red grinders...

 

U Just loose time and Money If you dont follow a Guide/know what you do...

 

And then there will be raids...this will Change this Game for ever...with the Info the devs leaked ...they are investing ,,some" thought in this and we have an awsome end endgame content/moneymaker and they create a new role... There will be Raiders

 

They are evolveing our gameplay honey xD

Dont say WE need to Grind more gyms,thats Just cruel and makes me wanna cry xD

 

Wish you an awsome day @MightyMichele

 

[Transendence]

As a lazy grinder myself who loves hogging vanities and just wait for them to rise at some point to sell, and then buy them back when they get low again, i honestly think it is best to keep the exp candy feature because it atleast gives players more incentive to play more hours, and that is what the developers want, to give all players, whether new or old, more incentive to play. I personally love the exp candy feature because, despite me praying for a shiny alpha, a consolation prize would a fun thing to see if ever I dont get a shiny.

 

Furthermore, as previously stated by the guys above, it helps pvp/pve mons easier to make, for newer players, as well as older ones. It's so convenient to build newer teams because it saves us the effort to actually do the sweet scent method

[caioxlive13]

On 3/19/2024 at 9:59 PM, LeZenor said:

This is extremely irrelevant to the topic and also you should get your facts right because I did not even play that tour lol

Ik, i just tested people and i've proven a point i told before. You guys just search for things to blame me, because you ignored the whole rest of the post.

Edited March 21 by caioxlive13

[DrakeHope]

3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Ik, i just tested people and i've proven a point i told before. You guys just search for things to blame me, because you ignored the whole rest of the post.

He didnt ignore it, you were clearly out of subject and also using false information. 

Zenor still pointed out that you're post was irrelevant to the actual subject of this post and also that he didnt take part on the OUvitational event you talking about + you clearly attacked on your first message with false information.

Zenor still was nice enough to not just report you for being out of subject or irrelevant to the subject or even for spreading false information about him, but instead just told you. He's prob one of the only few people Who still give you some attention and take the time to answer your nonsense prob 99.9% of the community would have ignored or reported you so show some damn respect kid.

 

To talk about the subject of this thread ( well only the part that concern me ) as someone Who hate grinding i do like the actual alpha system and exp candy and i know a lot of grind hater like myself do like this feature so i hope to never see it changes 

[ClosedBox]

Don't think nerfing candies is the way.

Having more 'options' to try and grind money is good. 

The cosmetics eventually hit a 'ceiling' where only people rich enough can buy them which effectively removes 99.9% of the player base who can just strive to one day hopefully buy them if it doesn't rise higher in price.

It may be similar to stocks, where the perceived value of the item is related on how much people are willing to pay for it and if there's demand on it.

Don't think your average joe will dedicate tons of hours of grinding to buy a scythe when he can purchase other cosmetics with that money so as long as there's no demand, the price will stay stagnant / lower.

 

Alphas already are rare enough (1 every 6 hours, 4 per day) which you can miss if you're not actively near a mobile device or the PC.  

The candies you obtain from it are randomnized so you can get square back to your balls investment or lose, since youre kind of gambling on getting a better than 2x31 pokemon + hopefully male to be used as a breeder or a good competitive female pokemon.  

You're not making that much, you might as well go and do trainer reruns every 6 hours, will end up making more than 'farming alpha' and throwing a coin.

[caioxlive13]

7 hours ago, DrakeHope said:

He didnt ignore it, you were clearly out of subject and also using false information. 

Zenor still pointed out that you're post was irrelevant to the actual subject of this post and also that he didnt take part on the OUvitational event you talking about + you clearly attacked on your first message with false information.

No i didn't attacked it, i just expressed my opinion that the tournament is elitist, and i can argue that because the host can invite 25 players(And was reduced to 25 to look less elitist, before was 29 reserved spots.) to take part without playing qualifications. Did you see Argentina qualify directly to the World Cup just because it has 3 World Cup titles? No. It still has to pass through qualifying process. 
 Responding the second point, no, people wouldn't report because the first part was still on subject of the topic. So it's not entirely the post, just the last part which if a moderator sayed that was Off topic i would simply move to a spoiler and move on. 

And responding to the last line to keep on the topic and not allow people to call me a hypocrit due to not answer all the post, i hope it had a change on alpha's EXP candy system, to it be retransferred to Raids and scaled based on raid's difficulty(Higher raids = More and better candy), even to reduce the amount of Alphas on GTL because breeding nowadays is becoming so cheap that extract some profit is each day harder. Using what i sayed before, i could sell in a couple of minutes before an lvl100 chomp for 250k and even i could see someone putting it back on GTL for 300k. But nowadays, if i put the same chomp for 150k, i can wait days and it won't sell. What @MightyMicheleclaimed is false due to the reasons given by other posts, Alpha's candys doesn't impact the Vanity Market in nothing, but it impact on Breeding market because it promotes too much interess on alphas and makes Breeding low cost, consequently making the mons Breeded much more cheaper.

Edited March 21 by caioxlive13

[MightyMichele]

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

What @MightyMicheleclaimed is false due to the reasons given by other posts, Alpha's candys doesn't impact the Vanity Market in nothing

Hi. While the xp candies don't impact the economy, the way they are provided could indeed affect the economy.

 

As a new method of earning resources, catch alphas appear to offer both profitability and enjoyment. Consequently, this has led to a shift in players' focus towards Alpha-catching as an enticing means of earning Pokeyen, potentially disrupting the balance of the game economy. When how players are less inclined to pursue Pokeyen from "bored" traditional methods - gym battles - and decide with more frequency go for catching Alphas, whether for quick gains or simply because they enjoy it more, we see a situation where Alphas divert attention from other already years balanced methods of earning PokeYen.

 

Im glad to know @caioxlive13 that you also think that nerf the exp candy is benefitial for the game. ^^

Edited March 22 by MightyMichele

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, MightyMichele said:

Hi. While the xp candies don't impact the economy, the way they are provided could indeed affect the economy.

 

As a new method of earning resources, catch alphas appear to offer both profitability and enjoyment. Consequently, this has led to a shift in players' focus towards Alpha-catching as an enticing means of earning Pokeyen, potentially disrupting the balance of the game economy. When how players are less inclined to pursue Pokeyen from "bored" traditional methods - gym battles - and decide with more frequency go for catching Alphas, whether for quick gains or simply because they enjoy it more, we see a situation where Alphas divert attention from other already years balanced methods of earning PokeYen.

 

Im glad to know @caioxlive13 that you also think that nerf the exp candy is benefitial for the game. ^^

Yea, but i lied about the vanity market. Now i analyze and it indeed impacted. But not decreasing the value, but rather increasing or in stale-mate. The alphas and candys quick-money allows money to be in multiple people's hands. There is more demand over them, since now more people can afford it and if devs makes vanitys harder to get, it will for sure rise. On Alpha Market and Breeding the offer is still higher than demand, and the offer rised more than demand for them, and this caused comp mons to lost value except Legends which increased(Offer stayed where it is since alphas won't breed with them, but demand increased with more people able to afford.)