NU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[DoubleJ]

The lack of tier list updates disturbs me. 

[Gunthug]

6 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

The lack of tier list updates disturbs me. 

We may just be the victim of time zones at this point since I believe Tyrone is the one who will post it and it should be pretty late there according to my highly inaccurate eyeballing of the time in Europe 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Gunthug

[LifeStyle]

4 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

We may just be the victim of time zones at this point since I believe Tyrone is the one who will post it and it should be pretty late there according to my highly inaccurate eyeballing of the time in Europe 

It's already Tuesday in Europe so let's just blame Tyrone for being bad

[KaynineXL]

54 minutes ago, Erayne said:

Well, I'd definitely ban kadabra instead of diglett XD much more op in my opinion (i know yours was just an example). Anyway kecleon can definitely run shed hull, of course it's gonna be less safe, but you can't have everything.

I'd say you think Kadabra is more OP than Diglett because Kadabra gets the spotlight of sweeping. Diglett is that type of pokemon that is behind the scenes doing the hard work supporting and letting the other pokemon take the glory.

 

Kadabra gets walled by Kecleon and Grumpig although you don't really want to come in on signal. Stuff like Metang really counter it, unless you plan on doing a random HP Fire/Ground in anticipation of Metang coming in, because if you don't, pursuits going to get you. Fearow can kill it with QA or play the mind games and pursuit, another risk Kadabra has to take. Lastly, Diglett has no trouble revenge killing it with ease. It's like a high risk high reward pokemon, if you don't have anything for Kadabra, you deserve to get punished, but that does not make it OP.

Edited December 13, 2016 by KaynineXL

[fredrichnietze]

2 hours ago, Erayne said:

That just means they may not be good enough against diglett, and like all walls in this game have flaws, but it doesn't mean there are no counter measures for diglett (muk for example would do well). And you're also forgettin that running a diglett means wasting a slot in some cases, and that's why it's usage is still low.

diglett is never a wasted slot as just being a revenge killer and putting pressure on your opponent gives it value, even if they dont bring something diglett can trap and kill at full health. whenever they make a move they have to stop and think "will he switch to diglett and trap and kill me?".

 

i say this as someone who heavily used multiple dugtrios for years and came up with screech dug.

[pachima]

Well, now with changes of pokemon stats (most covering NU tier) Shouldn´t we get some discuss on those mons?

Solrock and raichu should be prioritized for obvious reasons.

Bellossom also... maybe?

 

 

[Flavawhat]

bellossom could be okay seeing as a lot of other pokes got their attacks boosted too. raichu is gonna be wild.

 

[fredrichnietze]

4 minutes ago, pachima said:

Well, now with changes of pokemon stats (most covering NU tier) Shouldn´t we get some discuss on those mons?

Solrock and raichu should be prioritized for obvious reasons.

Bellossom also... maybe?

 

 

bello has better defense but what beats it physically before that does not beat it now?

 

raichu and solrock thou looking strong. nidos, mantine, lunatone, and corsala, and chimeco looking strong er. dont have time for a long write up.

[RysPicz]

Just now, Flavawhat said:

bellossom could be okay seeing as a lot of other pokes got their attacks boosted too. raichu is gonna be wild.

Worry not- Raichu is gonna be UU very soon, I can promise you that :pThe fact that now it outspeeds Tenta and Manectric is a huge deal, it has amazing movepool and a great priority move (although expensive). It's a pain in the ass to breed cuz baby poke and pain in the ass to moveset because of BP but I'm more than sure it's gonna be worth it.

[pachima]

1 minute ago, fredrichnietze said:

bello has better defense but what beats it physically before that does not beat it now?

 

raichu and solrock thou looking strong. nidos, mantine, lunatone, and corsala, and chimeco looking strong er. dont have time for a long write up.

 

Nidos are UU so not really a problem there (Nidoking idk) Lunatone also got a wild boost. The others might have been balanced.

For the bellossom, I remember having some close 2hkoes before, lemme see if I can bring calcs.

[Mnemosyne]

Why not wait untill some tourneys to see what is broken and what not 

[DoubleJ]

6 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

Why not wait untill some tourneys to see what is broken and what not 

Or we reset.

[RysPicz]

6 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

Why not wait untill some tourneys to see what is broken and what not 

 

I can't wait to play those exciting tourneys!

 

[Hotarubi]

3 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

 

I can't wait to play those exciting tourneys!

 

The rewards for winning those tournament is so good. It so worth the time and effort it take to win that.

[AlitoFernando]

59 minutes ago, Hotarubi said:

The rewards for winning those tournament is so good. It so worth the time and effort it take to win that.

I'm more than sure that he was ironic when he said that

[RysPicz]

Just now, AlitoFernando said:

I'm more than sure that he was ironic when he said that

So was she...

[AlitoFernando]

59 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

So was she...

I'm more than sure that she wasn't ironic when she said that

Edited December 25, 2016 by AlitoFernando

[Hotarubi]

13 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

So was she...

I know right?!

Its worthless for all the time to take. 

[fredrichnietze]

49 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Or we reset.

pls no. it's not the easier way this time.

[DoubleJ]

1 minute ago, fredrichnietze said:

pls no. it's not the easier way this time.

It's always the easiest. 

[fredrichnietze]

Just now, DoubleJ said:

It's always the easiest. 

reset and no uu/nu for 2~ months while you hash out ou, then no nu while you hash out uu for 2~ months, and every tier goes through months and months of changes while you balance them as reset means retesting bl/bl 2 and some new things end up bl / bl2 / different tiers by usage. that's a good half a year before nu is balanced and functional again and a good 70~ish man hours per council member. not easy at all.

[Munya]

5 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Or we reset.

Can we really reset every single time something changes though, how big was this change exactly?  Bigger than the new items that were added and everything got access to instead of a select few pokemon?  I don't know, I guess a reset seems unnecessary to me but I'm also not usually involved in all of this either so.  Feel like they'll work themselves out eventually.

[LionKIng]

7 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Or we reset.

A total reset would be a terrible idea like totally terrible, most of the mons on that list are NU and a couple of UUs. 

What would be neat doe would be to discard the usage since last tier shift and make it clean and not have the previous tourneys affect UU and NU tiering. Reasoning behind that is: you get a clean plate and you can then clearly see the true usage of the mons with the new stats. Let's give an exemple, cleff got a sp attack buff, pretty big one also, meaning it will be more used, meaning kec will most likely see less action since cleff is a better option at this time.

 

Reseting the usage will just make it easier to see what mons stand out from the previous tier shifts without having the couple tourneys since then biase the usage %. 

Edited December 25, 2016 by LionKIng

[Mnemosyne]

53 minutes ago, Kanzo said:

btw i dont hink Raichu is gonna be UU cuz of that 10 speed lmao. The most viable set in NU is still that wall wish suuprt set. and with that set in NU it's pretty ezz countered by several op stuffs. Now if Raichu gonna get high usage in UU cuz of sweepr bs set then thats a diff story.

That +10 speed is amazing.  +10 speed allows offensive Raichu to outspeed Scyther and Fearow. 

[Tyrone]

I dont believe anything should be reset or changed regarding usage. NU usage doesn't matter anyway for movements and not many UU pokemon have changed to warrent action there either. Just chill and see how it affects the meta first and if something proves to be broken we'll look into that.