The Reintroduction of UU

[NikhilR]

23 minutes ago, FNTCZ said:

And rydon never does hp investment.

 

Blissey and Chansey can just repeatedly switch to each other while stalling out Venusaur's 16 pp leech seed.

 

Yes, because blindly switching back and forth  between two pokes is a completely reliable strategy, because prediction doesnt exist, because double switching isnt one of the most important concepts in pokemon, because prediction inst a thing, because wallbreakers doesnt exist, becauae phsycal swerper dont exist, because fighting type doest exist, because set-up sweepers arent a thing, because who has ever heard of choice band, because guts doesnt exist, because no one uses nothing of this and everyone will keep spaming leech seed for 16 turns in a row while you keep switching between chansey and blissey

Damn I'm just getting meaner, but are you that bad at pokemon or visualizing things that you can't see how a Rhydon can't effectively beat Blissey?

0 SpA Blissey Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rhydon: 106-126 (50 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

If you run 252 hp on Rhydon, Blissey outspeeds you and its ggnore so even if you mispredict and switch in, you can't force a switch out. Rhydon runs speed investment because it needs to beat the tier's walls like Vaporeon (very common back in 2014), Blissey and Weezing. The main reason why people even run Jolly Rhydon is to outspeed Ludicolo / Cloyster. 

 

Also I don't know if you have trouble reading properly, but the OP clearly states how cancerous the special wall combo of Blissey+Chansey. There's no mention of how it can't be beaten by physical attackers because that core completely and I mean completely discourages a person from using special attackers. If you run EITHER a Blissey or Chansey, there is always an spaker that can beat either of them because they have coverage problems. 

Edited May 8, 2016 by NikhilR

[Toast]

I don't understand why you're arguing about gengar blissey or whatever the fuck you're arguing about on a UU post???

[pachima]

11 minutes ago, Toast said:

I don't understand why you're arguing about gengar blissey or whatever the fuck you're arguing about on a UU post???

because maybe and probably with a slight chance of rhydon being underused in the OU tier. Idk srsly.

[Fabbroo]

ban sceptile  :L

[Robofiend]

6 hours ago, RysPicz said:

Kinda makes me feel that we didn't even need that whole reset :(

 

This is exactly what I was saying from the beginning, the reset was a bad idea because all of the shit we banned is still cancerous

 

UU is either going to be really really different or we'll have to push for a lot of bans. I'd like to think that items like Choice Scarf will help to provide some much needed revenge-killing, though it seems like Defensive teams might be at a disadvantage with all of these high powered sweepers around.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Robofiend

[LifeStyle]

I wanted to test the "new" UU but match making is still broken, had 10 consecutive queues without finding an opponent, so I just gave up.

[Argorok2017]

4 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

I wanted to test the "new" UU but match making is still broken, had 10 consecutive queues without finding an opponent, so I just gave up.

yea that sounds about right

[BlackJovi]

Can confirm UU matchmaking works (at least ranked), Toast is my significant other cuz we got paired 3 times in a row, ofc I beat toast all three times 

[BurntZebra]

13 minutes ago, BlackJovi said:

Can confirm UU matchmaking works (at least ranked), Toast is my significant other cuz we got paired 3 times in a row, ofc I beat toast all three times 

yeah definitely

[BlackJovi]

1 minute ago, BurntZebra said:

yeah definitely

hue hue 

[Shaniqualela]

6 hours ago, FNTCZ said:

And rydon never does hp investment.

 

Blissey and Chansey can just repeatedly switch to each other while stalling out Venusaur's 16 pp leech seed.

 

Yes, because blindly switching back and forth  between two pokes is a completely reliable strategy, because prediction doesnt exist, because double switching isnt one of the most important concepts in pokemon, because wallbreakers dont exist, becauae phsycal swerper dont exist, because fighting type doest exist, because set-up sweepers arent a thing, because who has ever heard of choice band, because guts doesnt exist, because no one uses nothing of this and everyone will keep spaming leech seed and doing nothig else for 16 turns a row while you keep switching between chansey and blissey. 

Don't forget it's all this blissey set and can do everything at once 

Blissey - leftovers + shed hull

modest + bold + timid

252 hp 252 def 252 spatk 252 speed

thunderbolt

ice beam 

flamethrower

hyper voice

psychic

hp grass 

softboiled

calm mind

counter

thunder wave 

toxic

seismic toss

wish

protect

aromatherapy

[suigin]

and heal bell for even more status recovery

[fredrichnietze]

so back when the tier council started using usage % to determine tiers the 4.36% wasnt just pulled out of a hat. it was chosen using the smogon calculation.

C = S x (1 - (0.5)^(1 / T)) / 6

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tier-list-underusage-cutoff.85957/

however we modified the 20 into a 5 for pokemmo because that number stands for the number of battles per day on avg. at the time 20 seemed hi for pokemmo as we didnt have automated battling systems or anything beside 5~ tourneys a month and viridian. the number we got the first time (idr exact #) spat out a very different tier which was closer to nu then uu as we were getting far less usage. 

 

now however, we are getting hundreds of times the amount of data as the first time around. maybe we should recalculate? 

 

edit: oh yea the 2 months>1 month like smogon does it was also due to lack of usage data, and because then one person over the course of a month could fix the results if they understood it all and used the same pokemon in every single tournament all month.

now that usage data is no longer an endangered species you could move up the usage updates to once a month.

Edited May 9, 2016 by fredrichnietze

[RysPicz]

I can somewhat handle Scizor with Exeggutor and Slowking in the tier. I can handle Gardevoir as well, somehow, somewhat. I can handle Sceptile as well.

 

But Dodrio?

 

Come on TC. Shoulda brought down Linoone too if you're allowing Dodrio to roam in UU (again).

[DoubleJ]

10 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

I can somewhat handle Scizor with Exeggutor and Slowking in the tier. I can handle Gardevoir as well, somehow, somewhat. I can handle Sceptile as well.

 

But Dodrio?

 

Come on TC. Shoulda brought down Linoone too if you're allowing Dodrio to roam in UU (again).

 

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Dodrio Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Omastar: 46-55 (25.9 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Dodrio Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Omastar: 64-76 (36.1 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

The meta is insanely offensive though and unfortunately Wish passing to this li'l baby is hard to come by. Dodrio is nice. 

 

EDIT: Scarf Haunter when?

 

 

Edited May 9, 2016 by DoubleJ
To exert my dominance of course

[Casper]

Yes UU is back

[BurntZebra]

7 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

so back when the tier council started using usage % to determine tiers the 4.36% wasnt just pulled out of a hat. it was chosen using the smogon calculation.

C = S x (1 - (0.5)^(1 / T)) / 6

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tier-list-underusage-cutoff.85957/

however we modified the 20 into a 5 for pokemmo because that number stands for the number of battles per day on avg. at the time 20 seemed hi for pokemmo as we didnt have automated battling systems or anything beside 5~ tourneys a month and viridian. the number we got the first time (idr exact #) spat out a very different tier which was closer to nu then uu as we were getting far less usage. 

 

now however, we are getting hundreds of times the amount of data as the first time around. maybe we should recalculate? 

 

edit: oh yea the 2 months>1 month like smogon does it was also due to lack of usage data, and because then one person over the course of a month could fix the results if they understood it all and used the same pokemon in every single tournament all month.

now that usage data is no longer an endangered species you could move up the usage updates to once a month.

Smogon only has official usage based shifts every 3 months, so not really an argument to decrease ours to one month (tbh idk what our current timeframe is for updating tiers based on usage).

[RysPicz]

8 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

 

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Dodrio Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Omastar: 46-55 (25.9 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Dodrio Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Omastar: 64-76 (36.1 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

The meta is insanely offensive though and unfortunately Wish passing to this li'l baby is hard to come by. Dodrio is nice. 

 

EDIT: Scarf Haunter when?

 

 

252 Atk Life Orb Dodrio Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 99-117 (49 - 57.9%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Dodrio Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Steelix: 88-104 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 39.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Dodrio Drill Peck vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Exeggutor: 133-156 (65.8 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- SpA Life Orb Dodrio Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Omastar: 114-135 (64.4 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

Yeah HP Grass. Pretty sure mine is still somewhere, made it when Rhydon in UU was a thing.

I don't see the Band Dodrio as the most powerful and threatening, but the orbed one.

Bringing down some stallbreakers such as Scizor might benefit the new UU meta but a poke that alone kills the playstyle is a no go, that's why I was making sarcastic comments about bringing down Linoone as well. Sure, Dodrio can be revenge killed, but almost everything in the game can be revenge killed with a proper pokemon.

 

I managed to get 2 ranked matches in UU and 2 unranked, faced Dodrio 3 times in those matches, 3 times it proved to be a massive problem even when I brought a Steelix.

Rest seems actually pretty good although I'm incredibly skeptical about Gardevoir but I'll give it a further test when UU matchmaking will actually be a thing (very tough to find a match- no wonders, UU is even bigger cancer than OU right now)

 

E:

Miltank stops the orb version but falls to CB.

Edited May 9, 2016 by RysPicz

[DoubleJ]

HP Grass is certainly viable on Dodrio, but losing either Low Kick or Quick Attack is pretty detrimental. Forcing it to use HP Grass is very healthy for the meta in my opinion and means that Dodrio will then have a counter. Whether that is a revenge killer, Steelix, or Omastar. 

[7oneZ]

thank you very much. I am looking forward to the NU, as i JUST realized that many of my pokemon in my team were NU... :/ oops

[fredrichnietze]

8 hours ago, BurntZebra said:

Smogon only has official usage based shifts every 3 months, so not really an argument to decrease ours to one month (tbh idk what our current timeframe is for updating tiers based on usage).

my bad on the timing. thoughts on the rest?

[RysPicz]

3 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

HP Grass is certainly viable on Dodrio, but losing either Low Kick or Quick Attack is pretty detrimental. Forcing it to use HP Grass is very healthy for the meta in my opinion and means that Dodrio will then have a counter. Whether that is a revenge killer, Steelix, or Omastar. 

It's losing only quick attack which only slightly hinders it's sweeping potential at the cost of ultimate wallbreaking, as absolutely nothing can switch on HP Grass/ DP/ DEdge/ Low Kick orbed set that I have listed in my previous post, bar maybe Miltank. So yeah. No counters.

[DoubleJ]

48 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

It's losing only quick attack which only slightly hinders it's sweeping potential at the cost of ultimate wallbreaking, as absolutely nothing can switch on HP Grass/ DP/ DEdge/ Low Kick orbed set that I have listed in my previous post, bar maybe Miltank. So yeah. No counters.

Not exactly true

 

252+ Atk Life Orb Dodrio Low Kick (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mawile: 46-56 (29.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Life Orb Dodrio Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solrock: 60-72 (33.8 - 40.6%) -- 36.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Dodrio Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lunatone: 68-81 (38.4 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

The latter two have instant recovery, and immunity to Spikes, which make for even more impressive counters. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by DoubleJ
To exert my dominance of course.

[gbwead]

Impish Scizor looks good against Dodrio.

I personally like Impish Solrock that only fears Steel Wing xD

[Toast]

Currently I think the pokes are okay, just give it some time and the meta might settle nicely. Not only do we have new pokes to play with, the introduction to new items makes other pokes more viable, such as LO azu, crobat, breloom, etc. Houndoom runs wild currently, and I believe manectric will aswell. Offense is pretty damn good right now, not sure if stall is still viable but I think the walls will still do the same as before. I agree with what JJ said tbh, I'd like to see Solrock and Lunatone be used aswell, I tried it in the old meta it worked pretty well. Lots of new toys to play with so I'd give it some time before a final decision is made.