[OU Discussion] Serperior

[PoseidonWrath]

 

      

 

 

What is this?

 

This thread is being opened to discuss Serperior and its dominant existence in the Overused Tier (OU).

 

Characteristics

 

- Serperior`s speed is great and can get momentum really easily, the only mons that outspeed it in OU are: Starmie, Weavile, Jolteon and Dugtrio. Out of that list only weavile is the most popular revengekiller that with support of teleport for example will shut down the momentum of Serperiors Wrath. 

 

-The abillity Contrary, is what makes Serperior deadly. lt gives Serperior a +2 boost instead of -2, which means using leaf storm makes Serperior a threat in OU. Serperior may also get an evasion boost after switching into a potential defog which makes it difficult to handle. 

 

-With 75 HP, 95 DEF and 95 SPDEF, Serperior tanks hits more easily than the average OU mon. 

Calcs:

Spoiler

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 120-142 (80 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

 

+1 252+ Atk Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 124-148 (82.6 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 120-142 (80 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

0 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 126-150 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

 

252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 118-140 (78.6 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, 

 

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 120-143 (80 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 75-91 (50 - 60.6%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 88-105 (58.6 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 126-150 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

 

0 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 104-126 (69.3 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 108-127 (72 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Fire Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 116-138 (77.3 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 125-148 (83.3 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 109-130 (72.6 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 117-138 (78 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 63-75 (42 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

0 SpA Torkoal Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior in Sun: 128-152 (85.3 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

 

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 136-161 (90.6 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 136-161 (86.6 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

 

252 SpA Hydreigon Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 104-124 (69.3 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 135-161 (90 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 97-114 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 117-140 (78 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Starmie Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 136-160 (90.6 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Reversal (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 100-118 (66.6 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 72-85 (48 - 56.6%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

 

Sets on Serperior:

 

• Subtitute Leech Seed, Glare, Leafstorm
• Subtitute ,Leech Seed ,HP Fire, Leafstorm
• Subtitute, Glare, HP Fire, Leafstorm
• Leafstorm, DragonPulse, HP Fire, Glare

 

-Notable moves: Taunt (Blissey, Chansey, Golbat, Crobat etc denies the teleport and denies recovery) HP Rock (Pairing it with magnezone so u got coverage for steel types in general) 

 

Checks/Counters:

 

-Calm Weezing (3% usage, Bold weezing 90% is more popular) denies Serperior`s boost which makes it difficult to set up but is vulnerable to Glare/Leech sets.

 

-Calm clefable with unaware completly ignores the stats boosts from Serperior but is also vulnerable to Glare/Leech sets. 

 

-Volcarona good typing, perfect bulk and stab that goes through subtitute makes Serperior think twice before setting up. But is vulnerable to Glare/HP Rock

 

-Chansey/Blissey +Weavile or scarf sweeper, teleport to give momentum to your fast sweeper.

 

-Crobat/ Golbat in general is good vs Serperior, Glare/Rocks/Leech hurts it a bit. Also with U-turn Golbat can deny Serperior set up with subtitute and can safely go to your fast sweeper.

 

 

 

Feel free to give your input and discuss away

 

[caioxlive13]

39 minutes ago, PoseidonWrath said:

 

      

 

 

What is this?

 

This thread is being opened to discuss Serperior and its dominant existence in the Overused Tier (OU).

 

Characteristics

 

 

-The abillity Contrary, is what makes Serperior deadly. lt gives Serperior a +2 boost instead of -2, which means using leaf storm makes Serperior a threat in OU. Serperior may also get an evasion boost after switching into a potential defog which makes it difficult to handle. 

 

I want to comment about the evasion boost by defog. In singles, i don't see it as a problem. Why? One of the most popular defogers is Rotom-Wash, and it have a excelent bulk. Without supereffective damage, almost nothing can actually OHKO him unless you know previously which EV spread your opponent are using. So, unless the mon that you have in field: I. Have Taunt , and: II. Are faster than Rotom, is guarranted that you will take defog. Now, serperior can actually punish the defog increasing their own evasion, that after some time can be problematic to opponent, making opponent think two times before attempt to defog. Now on doubles this can be problematic because you can aim defog against your own serperior and increasing their evasion, but a simple nerf resolve this: Make defog unable to aim your allies, only enemies. 

[RysPicz]

(I'll repeat myself from a different thread)

 

My stand is that Serp should be either banned to Ubers or restricted from using it's Contrary ability. To put it short and simple, we do not have the necessary tools to handle it, tools that did exist in the metagames where it was absolutely fine. We do not have Heatran, Moltres, Victini, Tornadus-T, Azelf (not a direct counter but a decent check due to it's speed and movepool) and our Amoonguss does not have access to Regenerator which would be potentially available in the metagame, while some of the hard counters which were in gen6 (that's the Contrary Serperior's first metagame) are completely unavailable due to lack of gen6 (such as Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, Mega Altaria, Mega Zard Y or even a check in Mega Lopunny).

 

That makes 11 mons that I was able to list from the top of my head, which were being used more or less commonly in gen6 ou that we do not have here.

 

E:

There's also mega saur and I kinda feel stupid for not mentioning it, because I used it myself to counter Serp in gen6 ou lol

Edited September 28, 2022 by RysPicz

[EmilioGarras]

5 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

I want to comment about the evasion boost by defog. In singles, i don't see it as a problem. Why? One of the most popular defogers is Rotom-Wash, and it have a excelent bulk. Without supereffective damage, almost nothing can actually OHKO him unless you know previously which EV spread your opponent are using. So, unless the mon that you have in field: I. Have Taunt , and: II. Are faster than Rotom, is guarranted that you will take defog. Now, serperior can actually punish the defog increasing their own evasion, that after some time can be problematic to opponent, making opponent think two times before attempt to defog. Now on doubles this can be problematic because you can aim defog against your own serperior and increasing their evasion, but a simple nerf resolve this: Make defog unable to aim your allies, only enemies. 

Brother in Christ, in which level of hell do people run defog in doubles, there's just no pokes using it. In singles however, there are enough Pokémon using defog, which means serperior boost evasion on a prediction switch and therefore, messin up your play which is the equivalent of garchomp in sand, pokemon highly discussed for this ability. 

[caioxlive13]

Just now, EmilioGarras said:

Brother in Christ, in which level of hell do people run defog in doubles, there's just no pokes using it. In singles however, there are enough Pokémon using defog, which means serperior boost evasion on a prediction switch and therefore, messin up your play which is the equivalent of garchomp in sand, pokemon highly discussed for this ability. 

Gbwead comment this on October-2022 movement discussion thread. People start running defog on doubles just for increasing serp's evasion. This is equivalent to use Double Team, but without wasting serperior's attacks(meaning it can still attack)

[EmilioGarras]

2 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Gbwead comment this on October-2022 movement discussion thread. People start running defog on doubles just for increasing serp's evasion. This is equivalent to use Double Team, but without wasting serperior's attacks(meaning it can still attack)

Touché I guess but it's still something I haven't seen personally, don't see much sense tbh. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by EmilioGarras

[Wallarro]

Go ban serpereor:muscle: 

[caioxlive13]

6 minutes ago, EmilioGarras said:

Touché I guess but it's still something I haven't seen personally, don't see much sense tbh. 

in singles i don't see this evasion boost a problem because unless your opponent are a complete... Which is the best word?? Anyways, he will not try to defog immediatally. He will try to get a moment to defog, because serperior will put him on check. And put defogers on check is something that a lot of teams needed. Especially Hyper Offenses(That usually the one that can set hazards is the Suicide Lead.)

Edited September 28, 2022 by caioxlive13

[LpZ]

Aight I wasn't planning on post here anytime soon but the insatisfied on me is screaming louder than myself.

 

Serp is arguably the most restraining mon in the tier for me and I haven't seen people point this out too often but what makes it broken is not only its own presence but having to prep for both it and Conk. What I mean by that is, unless you take a flying slot like Togekiss or Mandibuzz + a bulky ghost slot like Jelly or Cofa you are pretty much always locked into using Weezing or Golbat to defensively check this combo which is also not flawless, I don't even consider Crobat as a good measure to this cuz the bulk difference between it and Golbat is honestly pretty considerable and Serp can nullify the one advantage it has compared to Golbat via Glare, its speed. Serp itself is a problem and very, VERY annoying to prep against but when you take into account it + Conk and even Chomp things get too overwhelming.

Talking about Serp as a standalone, it doesn't really change as my point of view of it being broken, nothing checks it consistently well, Golbat is very annoyed by rocks but it is imo the best Serp check in the tier, Weezing has to go for Bold 99% of the time since its usually also the Conk check for the team its in and imo Weezing is just passive and only works on balance on top of it relying on Pain Split to heal while it takes ~30% if Bold. Chansey + Weav is alright but also not close from consistent since +6 Leaf Storm starts doing around ~60% to Chansey and Chansey itself is owned by Leech Seed sets while Weavile really has to think twice as to whether it clicks Spear or Pursuit (btw I've idealized Protect Serp for this reason too on top of scouting any Scarfer's intention since Serp is so fast), Clef is outright bad imo on top of only fitting stall and Volcarona is not consistent at all as a check with how common Glare is on top of having to make sure rocks is always off. Ah and I didn't even mention how free it is to hard Serp on the most popular defogger in the tier which makes an awkward mon to check even more awkward.

Building in OU has gone so unilateral (and boring) that I just started building shit to lure Serp, but that's about it. I would def support a ban or ability restriction.

[Imperial]

I agree this mon has become a problem in the tier in its current state.

 

I assume the possible solutions would be:

 

- Remove leaf storm from Serperior (not saying it's right, but they did the same with Garchomp and Hydreigon since they don't like Ubers)

 

- Reduce the base power of Leaf Storm so contrary isn't as effective 

 

- Temporarily ban/nerf Serperior until the next batch of HAs are introduced and then reintroduce it when the meta can better adapt 

 

- Remove contrary completely (devs admitting that they fucked up with adding certain HAs)

 

TC and Devs - Thank you for this thread, but please think carefully when the next batch of HAs are due to release so we don't have to keep going through this shit 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Imperial

[LpZ]

4 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

in singles i don't see this evasion boost a problem because unless your opponent are a complete... Which is the best word?? Anyways, he will not try to defog immediatally. He will try to get a moment to defog, because serperior will put him on check.

And then what? Accept that you won`t be able to Defog safely for the simple reason of Serp existing on the other side and let rocks on your field for the whole game?

[Bertolfoso]

5 minutes ago, LpZ said:

And then what? Accept that you won`t be able to Defog safely for the simple reason of Serp existing on the other side and let rocks on your field for the whole game?

Disagree with this reasoning (ban ghosts because they spin block you and let rocks on your field?), Serperior is broken not because it switches in on Defog but because it simply doesn't have consistent counters.

[ArtOfKilling]

With all honesty, If this thread was made 1 month ago I would've said instantly perma ban it, and I know for a fact that we can all agree that it is overpowered and the options that can counter Serperior are counted by hand, but as of lately I've been using Serperior just because of the number of players both in ladder and tournaments that have been spamming rain teams non-stop which Serperior decently counters. I don't mind it getting banned or nerfed and reverting things back to the old meta because with all honesty it's too strong compared to what we have right now.

Edited September 28, 2022 by ArtOfKilling

[Wallarro]

Hace 24 minutos, LpZ dijo:

Vale, no estaba planeando publicar aquí pronto, pero los insatisfechos conmigo están gritando más fuerte que yo.

 

Serp es posiblemente el mon más restrictivo del nivel para mí y no he visto a la gente señalar esto con demasiada frecuencia, pero lo que lo hace roto no es solo su propia presencia, sino tener que prepararse tanto para él como para Conk. Lo que quiero decir con eso es que, a menos que tomes una ranura voladora como Togekiss o Mandibuzz + una ranura fantasma voluminosa como Jelly o Cofa, casi siempre estás encerrado en usar Weezing o Golbat para comprobar a la defensiva este combo que tampoco es impecable, ni siquiera considero a Crobat como una buena medida para esto porque la diferencia masiva Serp en sí es un problema y muy, MUY molesto de preparar, pero cuando lo tienes en cuenta + Conk e incluso Chomp, las cosas se vuelven demasiado abrumadoras.

Hablando de Serp como independiente, realmente no cambia como mi punto de vista de que está roto, nada lo comprueba consistentemente, Golbat está muy molesto por las rocas, pero es el mejor cheque de Serp en el nivel, Weezing tiene que ir por Bold el 99% de las veces, ya que por lo general también es el cheque de Conk para el equipo, está dentro Chansey + Weav está bien, pero tampoco está cerca de ser consistente, ya que +6 Leaf Storm comienza a hacer alrededor del ~60% a Chansey y Chansey es propiedad de los conjuntos de semillas de lejuela, mientras que Weavile realmente tiene que pensar dos veces si hace clic en Spear o Pursuit (por cierto, he idealizado Protect Serp por esta razón también siempre está apagado. Ah, y ni siquiera mencioné lo gratis que es ser difícil Serp en el defogger más popular del nivel, lo que hace que sea un mon incómodo para comprobar aún más incómodo.

Construir en OU ha sido tan unilateral (y aburrido) que acabo de empezar a construir mierda para atraer a Serp, pero eso es todo. Definitivamente apoyaría una prohibición o restricción de capacidad.

good answer, Golbat has been the best counter for serpereor but even the serpereor lech seed + Subs wins 1vs1, many people tell me to take it with uturn which seems silly to me because I receive double damage from the rocks (if they are on) and he should sacrifice a valuable move in golbat either toxic or haze for scizor sd who are using him a lot

[LpZ]

28 minutes ago, Bertolfoso said:

Disagree with this reasoning (ban ghosts because they spin block you and let rocks on your field?), Serperior is broken not because it switches in on Defog but because it simply doesn't have consistent counters.

I never said it was because of Defog lol, just read my post above, im quoting his argument

[CaptnBaklava]

46 minutes ago, Imperial said:

 

 

- Temporarily ban/nerf Serperior until the next batch of HAs are introduced and then reintroduce it when the meta can better adapt 

 

 

Makes the most sense imo. 

[pachima]

TLDR; Ban serperior until even more broken stuff come, ignoring the fact the argument pretty much folds to itself while also ignoring the fact MMO will be forced to change their mentality when it comes to offensive bans with HA/legendaries, no matter what they want or they think they want.

 

Otherwise, please stop suggesting legendaries because there is no way we can have half of them if apparently serperior is too strong.

 

 

[azuloon]

What HAs being released would make Serperior less of a threat? I’m not very well-versed in the possible checks and counters new hidden abilities would bring.   I hope that the staggered release of Hidden Abilities doesn’t mean we’ll have to figure out how to deal with a broken mon like Serperior each release. 

[Makarovs]

5 minutes ago, pachima said:

please stop suggesting legendaries because there is no way we can have half of them if apparently serperior is too strong.

I'm sure Rache confirmed that Uber-like legendaries will never be available for pvp. The argument for adding some legendaries is for a significant meta change where Teambuild is not as limited due to the above combinations (conk+serp), and I really don't see a scenario where Heatran or Zapdos could be as problematic as Serperior currently. So no, we're not going to stop suggesting legendaries.

[EmilioGarras]

 

2 minutes ago, Makarovs said:

I'm sure Rache confirmed that Uber-like legendaries will never be available for pvp. The argument for adding some legendaries is for a significant meta change where Teambuild is not as limited due to the above combinations (conk+serp), and I really don't see a scenario where Heatran or Zapdos could be as problematic as Serperior currently. So no, we're not going to stop suggesting legendaries.

Minor legendaries like you mention would fit really well in Pokemmo to stop some nearly broken Pokémon. 

[Huargensy]

Removing the evasion boost doesn't fix anything, I haven't been that active these last few months so far, but I'll talk about what I've managed to see, we have a Pokémon with enough speed to beat almost everyone in the level and only being beaten by 4 of which 2 can't do much against it, one is a meme and the last one is the only one that can really do anything against it, we also have choice scarf users that can pressure them (infernape, scizor) is also an answer but if you get a bad prediction to avoid the +2 boost and go into glare , he just lost his only chance to beat this and avoid the sweep in later turns, we have "checks" that depend on a very favorable situation even for counter serpereor , weez loses vs subseed, golbat is also forced to get very complicated due to subseed due to the inability to play black sludge, so in the long run I don't even consider this a safe count, crobat is somewhat better, but or dazzle is something he doesn't like that much, which he can easily cast by setting up a sub before the bat entry, togekiss calm seems like a good answer to me, while mandibuzz is the same, although both can't remove it from a stab move, chansey + a revenge like weavile looks good but forcing people to play this most of the time just shows how centralized that is to the level, the other things just can't switch to serpe because they'll drop next turn after a + 2 or they are chosen scarf users that if they enter glare they will be disabled, which as I said is simple with just placing a sub waiting for a scarf of choice and throwing glare.

Although it currently has ways to deal with it, I don't think they are adequate because they depend on a very favorable situation to be able to stop it, personally I would prefer to ban it until we have better tools to handle it. .

[Bertolfoso]

1 hour ago, LpZ said:

I never said it was because of Defog lol, just read my post above, im quoting his argument

And I never said you said that, just quoted your argument 🙂

 

[LpZ]

26 minutes ago, Bertolfoso said:

And I never said you said that, just quoted your argument 🙂

 

If ur the type of guy who likes playing games with rocks up on your field thats on you, Serp being around making people think twice about defogging with Rotom to give Serp an evasion boost is a thing you believing or not. Also your "ban ghost" example doesn't reflect what i tried to say at all, Serp has the same defog rotom interaction in SM OU for example but Serp is not nearly as destructive and punitive there as it is in mmo

[CHUCKunso]

Let me just quote myself:

 

 

Posted September 16 (edited)

On 9/15/2022 at 9:57 PM, Lvkee said:

Can you please list the ways to play around it? If it isn't so difficult you surely should be able to come up with some? Because pretty much the only one I know right now is chansey teleport + a faster revenge killer in the back.  All the offensive checks hate glare, and it really isn't uncommon to click glare to spam some para's off to conserve the 8pp it abuses. To me it feels like another Garchomp SD (trying to make you conform to a certain playstyle) which in my opinion is the sign of a very unhealthy metagame. 

Imo Serp makes the meta game a lot more healthy compared to before. I never had a problem with Conk or Chomp, my main concern in OU is legit Wash when it comes to a healthy meta - and Serp hinders Wash. My pov on Wash is something I can share if people are curious but that's not the matter here I guess. I'd argue that the evasion boost on Defog might be a bit of a problem because it can realistically stop RKing, which might be an issue since we are lacking ways to handle it to some(!) extend and giving it an evasion boost certainly does not help. I don't think it's more disruptive than Conk or other high threat mons in the tier (w/o evasion) but rather helps the meta to some extend tho. And when we are talking about ways to handle it there are more than just chansey tp + RK. Sure glare is something that helps against stuff like Volca but there are more options to consider than just Volca (certain Scizor sets, Venusaur, Roserade) and I don't think we have to talk about the options for RK as those are quite plenty.

Edited September 28, 2022 by CHUCKunso

[caioxlive13]

1 minute ago, CHUCKunso said:

Let me just quote myself:

 

 

Posted September 16 (edited)

Imo Serp makes the meta game a lot more healthy compared to before. I never had a problem with Conk or Chomp, my main concern in OU is legit Wash when it comes to a healthy meta - and Serp hinders Wash. My pov on Wash is something I can share if people are curious but that's not the matter here I guess. I'd argue that the evasion boost on Defog might be a bit of a problem because it can realistically stop RKing, which might be an issue since we are lacking ways to handle it to some(!) extend and giving it an evasion boost certainly does not help. I don't think it's more disruptive than Conk or other high threat mons in the tier (w/o evasion) but rather helps the meta to some extend tho. And when we are talking about ways to handle it there are more than just chansey tp + RK. Sure glare is something that helps against stuff like Volca but there are more options to consider than just Volca (certain Scizor sets, Venusaur, Roserade) and I don't think we have to talk about the options for RK as those are quite plenty.

like i sayed here:

4 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

I want to comment about the evasion boost by defog. In singles, i don't see it as a problem. Why? One of the most popular defogers is Rotom-Wash, and it have a excelent bulk. Without supereffective damage, almost nothing can actually OHKO him unless you know previously which EV spread your opponent are using. So, unless the mon that you have in field: I. Have Taunt , and: II. Are faster than Rotom, is guarranted that you will take defog. Now, serperior can actually punish the defog increasing their own evasion, that after some time can be problematic to opponent, making opponent think two times before attempt to defog. Now on doubles this can be problematic because you can aim defog against your own serperior and increasing their evasion, but a simple nerf resolve this: Make defog unable to aim your allies, only enemies. 

On singles i don't see evasion as a problem. Many players come with argument that OU has a lot of defogers. In theory, it's true, many OU mons can learn defog. Now, checking their PvP sets, basically most part don't use it because Rotom-Wash uses it. The question is why not use Rotom as a defoger, since almost all tier cannot OHKO it unless you know which spread opponent are using(He are using Bold Rotom or Calm Rotom? Maybe neither of them, he can use Scarf trick rotom), so he will have at least one turn to defog. Not mentioning their defensive bulk and good defensive type. So many HO teams ,for example, doesn't have any type of hope, because usually they set up hazards with a Suicide Lead only, nothing could put rotom on check in order to avoid being cleaned. Now they have a hope with serperior. They can put pressure on defogers to avoid being cleaned soon. I don't see any reason on removing this evasion boost. About doubles issue, mentioned by @gbwead on October-movement discussion thread, yes, players can aim defog on their serperior to increase evasion(and according to Gbwead some players are already using it), but a simply change on defog can resolve it: Make defog a move that can't target allies. This will end this evasion strat on doubles without leaving any collateral damage on singles.