July-2023 Movement Discussion

[caioxlive13]

20 minutes ago, Missit said:

You didnt expose anything. You just posted the same few arguments for the 10th time without backing it up with any evidence whatsoever. Even after being called out for that you still provided 0 proof for your claims. Just the same few points you bring up all the time...

I need to proof that 80 speed is low to Ou, even if on OU we had a LOT of mons over 80 speed, and setuper spammers at 80 such as nite? It forces scarf and even that won't help because offense captalize on choice locks(A realistic example: Gallade got locked on Sacred Sword and you enter with nite. Free turn to setup and if you come from a sac or slow pivot, you still had your multiscale active). This is one of the weakness, other is bulk. Sp. Def is decent but HP/Def, no. Physical offenses doesn't need to effort too much to gobble up a One or Two hit KO. 

 

And if you watch ladder, majority of teams are some kind of Hyper Offense, or even Rain. Both can captalize on those weakness easily.

Edited June 28, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Lumiere]

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

And what the hell I was doing all this time, comparing Gallade to other wallbreakers and exposing that they share the same weakness and those weakness given the state of our meta could be easily exploited?

Bro please stop, it’s quite annoying that you spam the same message thinking that ur argument was better and theirs is invalid when u don’t prove anything.
You called a meta “easily exploited” with the argument that mons like Darmanitan and Crawdaunt are just as good as Gallade when that’s not true and u didn’t even explained good.
If u need a quick review:
- Darmanitan its faster than Gallade yes, but it dies itself to recoil and can be easily abused by Rocky Helmet, need to be scarf to run a decent speed, even if that, u assume that Darmanitan CB it’s the most broken mon and u cant handle it, and as far I know, most of the stalls run a revenge killer/trapper in their compositions, I can mention u some of them if u didn’t used ur time to analyze the meta, Dugtrio (most common teammate of Togekiss/Reuniclus stalls), Tyranitar Scarf/Band/AV (it can enter after a mon dies to Flare Blitz and pursuit Darmanitan for free), and Weavile just in case u know its CB and if you are smart enough ur running a bulky water mon in your compositions and then check damages to trap it. Gallade is not forced by Tyra neither Weavile if the mon its full, only Dugtrio and it needs to rely on your getting chipped or run Sucker Punch.
- Craw nothing to say bro, what ur smoking lol, it hits a lot but its slower than Gallade, it needs rain in field to do something itself and get mostly forced to switch out by a lot of mons in our OU meta. Being choice locked always don’t make them that good enough to get compared with Gallade, a mon that can easily sweep without being locked.
- Do u really think by being 80 speed means he will be scarf always? U can run AV to make lot of entries in SpAtk mons and hit hard, run SD to deal with most stall teams, run Agility to make it a trouble for HO’s if u deal with priorities before, and the choice versions like Scarf/Cb are so good aswell, and I didn’t even mentioned the great movepool of it wich is way so better than Craw and Darmanitan main moves that are the same that u expect always.

After this im not saying if Gallade its banworthy or not, im just explaining to u that ur comparision is just trash.
They already explained this to u lot of times, but u ignored them thinking that ur argument was better. 
If you will not contribute anything more than saying the same thing so many times, it is better to remain silent. 

Let TC does whatever they think its better for the meta and stop annoying them, they are more experienced than you in this area.

[TohnR]

11 hours ago, Ziiiiio said:

also Haxorus and torkoal plz

 

Haxorus will not get out of BL, we already debated it when Salamence went down but the mon would be absolutely absurd in terms of wallbreaking in UnderUsed.
Torkoal is OU by usage, not much to be done there.

[Munya]

On 6/27/2023 at 6:51 PM, gbwead said:

I haven't played NU ever since Gallade moved up to OU, so I feel my write-up lacks content and is missing an up-to-date perspective. I'm posting it here hoping NU players or TC can complete the write-up if deemed necessary.

 

 

You're free to go about it, nobody had any objections and I don't see any issues. The test will begin with the end of the month tier changes. Which should go live end of the day today(29th)/early tomorrow

[Ziiiiio]

46分钟前，TohnR 说：

Haxorus will not get out of BL, we already debated it when Salamence went down but the mon would be absolutely absurd in terms of wallbreaking in UnderUsed.

I thought a tier with Mandibuzz/hippowdon/ditto and mence can solve this, but however I agree with it has good wallbreaking skill also quite fast speed.

[LeJovi]

8 hours ago, Lumiere said:

Bro please stop, it’s quite annoying that you spam the same message thinking that ur argument was better and theirs is invalid when u don’t prove anything.
You called a meta “easily exploited” with the argument that mons like Darmanitan and Crawdaunt are just as good as Gallade when that’s not true and u didn’t even explained good.
If u need a quick review:
- Darmanitan its faster than Gallade yes, but it dies itself to recoil and can be easily abused by Rocky Helmet, need to be scarf to run a decent speed, even if that, u assume that Darmanitan CB it’s the most broken mon and u cant handle it, and as far I know, most of the stalls run a revenge killer/trapper in their compositions, I can mention u some of them if u didn’t used ur time to analyze the meta, Dugtrio (most common teammate of Togekiss/Reuniclus stalls), Tyranitar Scarf/Band/AV (it can enter after a mon dies to Flare Blitz and pursuit Darmanitan for free), and Weavile just in case u know its CB and if you are smart enough ur running a bulky water mon in your compositions and then check damages to trap it. Gallade is not forced by Tyra neither Weavile if the mon its full, only Dugtrio and it needs to rely on your getting chipped or run Sucker Punch.
- Craw nothing to say bro, what ur smoking lol, it hits a lot but its slower than Gallade, it needs rain in field to do something itself and get mostly forced to switch out by a lot of mons in our OU meta. Being choice locked always don’t make them that good enough to get compared with Gallade, a mon that can easily sweep without being locked.
- Do u really think by being 80 speed means he will be scarf always? U can run AV to make lot of entries in SpAtk mons and hit hard, run SD to deal with most stall teams, run Agility to make it a trouble for HO’s if u deal with priorities before, and the choice versions like Scarf/Cb are so good aswell, and I didn’t even mentioned the great movepool of it wich is way so better than Craw and Darmanitan main moves that are the same that u expect always.

After this im not saying if Gallade its banworthy or not, im just explaining to u that ur comparision is just trash.
They already explained this to u lot of times, but u ignored them thinking that ur argument was better. 
If you will not contribute anything more than saying the same thing so many times, it is better to remain silent. 

Let TC does whatever they think its better for the meta and stop annoying them, they are more experienced than you in this area.

Don't waste your time, my brother.

2 hours ago, Ziiiiio said:

I thought a tier with Mandibuzz/hippowdon/ditto and mence can solve this, but however I agree with it has good wallbreaking skill also quite fast speed.

Why not test it though? The tier is already a shit-fest anyway, test Porygon-Z too while you're at it! (I'm 100% serious) 

[Onraider]

Looking at some of the venomoth discussion, seems like there is emphasis being placed on stopping sleep powder mainly with mons like magmortar,mr.mime,abomasnow etc with their abilities. However, seems like a set of Quiver/Sub/Disable/Bug buzz could cause some problems in that case, with golbat and gigalith being the only reliable solutions among popular mons. Sub also will help with dealing any priority moves for revenge killing like aqua jet from cb azu for example.
Having this versatility between a sleep powder and non sleep powder set could make venomoth very annoying to manage. Also a hybrid sub+sleep powder set might be viable in some cases

Edited June 29, 2023 by Onraider

[DiosSlurpuff]

18 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

And what the hell I was doing all this time, comparing Gallade to other wallbreakers and exposing that they share the same weakness and those weakness given the state of our meta could be easily exploited?

All you did was say that Gallade was nothing more than mons like Darmanitan or Crawdaunt... It was more funny than debatable, honestly.

[DiosSlurpuff]

18 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

I need to proof that 80 speed is low to Ou

Although Gallade's speed isn't high, I can't consider it an argument to define whether it's broken or not either, after all it surpasses mons like Metagross, Tar, Conk, Loom, Magnezone (No scarf, which is rare and I almost never saw , but according to this it represents 40% of the Magnezone used in OU), it goes to tie with Togekiss and Mamoswine... Although in the last case Mamoswine accesses Ice Shard, a cband set is forced to tie or change mon , and again, not having a safe count, this can mean losing 1 slot just trying to build momentum against Gallade... can you stop repeating the same thing?

[Munya]

Please use the edit button or multiquote when making the initial post if you want to quote multiple things.

[Imperial]

I'm sorry but this is just extremely ridiculous. It seems like there's a consistent pattern of swapping between ruining UU and NU making the tiers unplayable. Whether it was Porygon-Z and Porygon2 in UU, Dugtrio in NU, there just seems to be a trend of taking it in turns to mess up what should be the most fun and versatile tiers into a huge shitfest.

 

Thank you to TC for banning Shaymin and the community removing Salamence from UU (yes we still have Crawdaunt), but now we've all decided to bring back Venomoth to NU when we still have key threats such as Sharpedo, Cloyster, Azumarill and Scrafty (people disagree with me on this one).

 

Gigalith is also a huge one (people justifying this as the reason to bring back Venomoth), as it shuts down a lot of special attacking threats due to its bulk whilst killing them in return (e.g. Typhlosion, Houndoom, Magmortar, Alakazam(?)), also shutting down Ninjask, Scyther and other threats, whilst also enabling potential sweepers such as Stoutland and Sandslash(?) with the sand boost.

 

Don't even get me started on bringing Venusaur, which we've heard nothing about, with the potential of having weather wars which was a huge issue in UU at the time (admittedly we currently don't have a reliable sun setter in NU right now). 

 

TC will think I'm sarcastic here, but at this point we may as well bring back Roserade to suspect test if we're planning to return Venusaur to NU. I mean we're happy to drop down new threats whilst not dealing with existing ones, so hey what's the problem?

 

Also I've seen people ask to bring back Porygon-Z in UU - I personally don't have any issues with testing this since the new changes, but is the timing right now that we're going to see Gigalith receive a huge rise in NU usage thanks to Venomoth?

 

I'm sure this will fall on death ears, but enjoy the shitfest NU will bring in the new season, it's only going to get better(worse) when the new HAs and legendaries come out in the Johto update (which TC already likely know about). And even if NU is now magically fixed, people'll just shift their attention into messing with UU, since hey, that's the pattern we like to follow right? We can't have 3 stable tiers at any one time.

[ChronoRike]

NU players seeing that:

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Imperial said:

I'm sorry but this is just extremely ridiculous. It seems like there's a consistent pattern of swapping between ruining UU and NU making the tiers unplayable. Whether it was Porygon-Z and Porygon2 in UU, Dugtrio in NU, there just seems to be a trend of taking it in turns to mess up what should be the most fun and versatile tiers into a huge shitfest.

 

Thank you to TC for banning Shaymin and the community removing Salamence from UU (yes we still have Crawdaunt), but now we've all decided to bring back Venomoth to NU when we still have key threats such as Sharpedo, Cloyster, Azumarill and Scrafty (people disagree with me on this one).

 

Gigalith is also a huge one (people justifying this as the reason to bring back Venomoth), as it shuts down a lot of special attacking threats due to its bulk whilst killing them in return (e.g. Typhlosion, Houndoom, Magmortar, Alakazam(?)), also shutting down Ninjask, Scyther and other threats, whilst also enabling potential sweepers such as Stoutland and Sandslash(?) with the sand boost.

 

Don't even get me started on bringing Venusaur, which we've heard nothing about, with the potential of having weather wars which was a huge issue in UU at the time (admittedly we currently don't have a reliable sun setter in NU right now). 

 

TC will think I'm sarcastic here, but at this point we may as well bring back Roserade to suspect test if we're planning to return Venusaur to NU. I mean we're happy to drop down new threats whilst not dealing with existing ones, so hey what's the problem?

 

Also I've seen people ask to bring back Porygon-Z in UU - I personally don't have any issues with testing this since the new changes, but is the timing right now that we're going to see Gigalith receive a huge rise in NU usage thanks to Venomoth?

 

I'm sure this will fall on death ears, but enjoy the shitfest NU will bring in the new season, it's only going to get better(worse) when the new HAs and legendaries come out in the Johto update (which TC already likely know about). And even if NU is now magically fixed, people'll just shift their attention into messing with UU, since hey, that's the pattern we like to follow right? We can't have 3 stable tiers at any one time.

this tbh

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by ChronoRike