Excuse me, what is GTL Scamming?

[kuuai]

Recently, I heard that someone has been banned from their account for "picking up errors from others in a consistent and repetitive manner" on GTL.

The reason for the ban is GTL Scamming

 

Of course, I don't care what they did or whether they were telling the truth

I'm just curious:

• What is GTL Scamming? (I don't quite understand how it was done)
• "Picking up mistakes from others in a consistent and repetitive manner" Is it related to "GTL Scamming'?
• "Picking up mistakes from others in a consistent and repetitive manner Is" it prohibited?
• (Or perhaps there are other related matters? But I didn't expect it, you can add)

 

Yes, although I don't often use GTL (trading channels are more convenient for me)

But there are always some simple minded people around me who have heard about shortcuts and want to try them out, even practicing for a long time

 

Although I am also trying to find similar posts and staff responses on forums

But I seem a bit foolish and don't quite understand what happened at that time, I don't understand how 'Scamming' works either

(May it be because there is a problem with my translation software? Or is there something wrong with my brain?)

 

When I receive the correct answer, I try to convey it to those with simple minds

If anyone could answer, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thank you!

[Johnwaynee]

When People put things too cheap in the gtl because of a typo and they are unable to double check (like normal people would do), its apparently not their fault by pokemmo logic. 

Its the fault of that one who buys it, by pokemmo logic.



Iam not saying there is much logic to it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Johnwaynee

[Goku]

I'll give a simple example. A person is listing items consecutively at 1000 pokeyen and gains an audience in a time span of let's say 10 minutes. The items he lists isn't generally worth a lot but obviously he is taking a few 100k loss doing this. In this process he now knows there are several players sniping his items as he lists them. These players try their best to click the fastest to purchase the item because they know it will be ridiculously cheap. In this instance the user can list an item for 10 million pokeyen between all the chaos and someone might make the tragic mistake and buy it. They intentionally wait for a person to make the mistake which is indirectly defrauding a player by luring them to make a "mistake purchase" I call it GTL-Fishing and it's done by shit players. 

[caioxlive13]

3 hours ago, kuuai said:

Recently, I heard that someone has been banned from their account for "picking up errors from others in a consistent and repetitive manner" on GTL.

The reason for the ban is GTL Scamming

 

Of course, I don't care what they did or whether they were telling the truth

I'm just curious:

• What is GTL Scamming? (I don't quite understand how it was done)
• "Picking up mistakes from others in a consistent and repetitive manner" Is it related to "GTL Scamming'?
• "Picking up mistakes from others in a consistent and repetitive manner Is" it prohibited?
• (Or perhaps there are other related matters? But I didn't expect it, you can add)

 

Yes, although I don't often use GTL (trading channels are more convenient for me)

But there are always some simple minded people around me who have heard about shortcuts and want to try them out, even practicing for a long time

 

Although I am also trying to find similar posts and staff responses on forums

But I seem a bit foolish and don't quite understand what happened at that time, I don't understand how 'Scamming' works either

(May it be because there is a problem with my translation software? Or is there something wrong with my brain?)

 

When I receive the correct answer, I try to convey it to those with simple minds

If anyone could answer, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thank you!

This post details better. 

 

2 hours ago, Goku said:

I'll give a simple example. A person is listing items consecutively at 1000 pokeyen and gains an audience in a time span of let's say 10 minutes. The items he lists isn't generally worth a lot but obviously he is taking a few 100k loss doing this. In this process he now knows there are several players sniping his items as he lists them. These players try their best to click the fastest to purchase the item because they know it will be ridiculously cheap. In this instance the user can list an item for 10 million pokeyen between all the chaos and someone might make the tragic mistake and buy it. They intentionally wait for a person to make the mistake which is indirectly defrauding a player by luring them to make a "mistake purchase" I call it GTL-Fishing and it's done by shit players. 

However, they can use GTL for other type of scam, i call Price Manipulation. You basically buy for example, all of the X vanity for 1m, and there is exactly 12 of them. Then, you list on the GTL one for, let's say, 10m. And you sell another on trade chat. When people is there negotiating, you can sell for them for like, 8m or 8,5m arguing that "On GTL is more expensive". Once he buys, you then cancel the 10m listing and sell all of them for the regular price of 1m. You win your money back and earn around 7,5m

Also there is the players a bit old, that scam novices to buy things overpriced as ***, or sell for example shinys way under the GTL value. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Goku]

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

This post details better. 

 

However, they can use GTL for other type of scam, i call Price Manipulation. You basically buy for example, all of the X vanity for 1m, and there is exactly 12 of them. Then, you list on the GTL one for, let's say, 10m. And you sell another on trade chat. When people is there negotiating, you can sell for them for like, 8m or 8,5m arguing that "On GTL is more expensive". Once he buys, you then cancel the 10m listing and sell all of them for the regular price of 1m. You win your money back and earn around 7,5m

Also there is the players a bit old, that scam novices to buy things overpriced as ***, or sell for example shinys way under the GTL value. 

That's market manipulation. As far as I am aware that is allowed. That's been happening to elfbot outfits for months. What players do is they buy the majority of them on gtl and keep listing them for ridiculous prices on the GTL for the hopes of a temporary price inflation. In my opinion adding price indication colours (Ones that highlight the value) on the GTL was a mistake. If a item keeps being listed by several players for a higher value than it's actual market price, the programming on the GTL would accept it as the norm and then further more give players an indication that it is a "Fair" price when in fact it's not.

[razimove]

4 hours ago, kuuai said:

picking up errors from others in a consistent and repetitive manner

so basically running a script that refreshes and instant buys things he finds below x value, any 3rd party program is a bannable offense. 

You wont get banned for sniping cheap stuff on gtl dont worry.

[Doctor]

1 hour ago, razimove said:

so basically running a script that refreshes and instant buys things he finds below x value, any 3rd party program is a bannable offense. 

You wont get banned for sniping cheap stuff on gtl dont worry.

people did get banned for listing cheap stuff for high prices and people mistakenly buying it though which I think is the point of this post

 

which will never cease to amaze me because that's scamming but sniping and taking advantage of other people's mistake is completely fair lol

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, Goku said:

In my opinion adding price indication colours (Ones that highlight the value) on the GTL was a mistake. If a item keeps being listed by several players for a higher value than it's actual market price, the programming on the GTL would accept it as the norm and then further more give players an indication that it is a "Fair" price when in fact it's not.

The idea wasn't bad but it should be more programmed. Like, the price of the item is compared from the same item, 7 days ago. 

It could be the colors:
Dark Purple if the value has difference over 40%, more cheaper.
Blue if the value is between 25% and 40%, more cheaper.
Green if the item is between 5% and, 25% more cheaper.
Default color if the item is between 5% more cheaper and 5% more expensive
Yellow  if the item is between 5% and, 25% more expensive.
Orange if the value is between 25% and 40%, more expensive.
Red if the value is over 40%, more expensive.

[LeZenor]

56 minutes ago, Doctor said:

people did get banned for listing cheap stuff for high prices and people mistakenly buying it though which I think is the point of this post

 

which will never cease to amaze me because that's scamming but sniping and taking advantage of other people's mistake is completely fair lol

It’s not really the same thing. We can’t compare lack of awareness of prices by certain players and deliberate attempts to defraud others by abusing the fact that certain items share resemblance or after luring players with cheap items. There is intent to defraud since you're going out of your way creating these listings and actively trying to scam people , whereas sniping is just happening when you’re at the right place at the right time.
 

If you took rp vouchers for instance a year ago or so, specifically 100 rp vouchers and 1000 rp vouchers, they used to look very similar. Players with malicious intend would deliberately abuse that fact by selling 100 rp vouchers at the price of 1000 rp vouchers in hope someone less attentive would fall for it. 
 

I’m unaware which items or pokemon are used now to defraud others via gtl but I highly doubt it’s anything less scummy

Edited October 8, 2023 by LeZenor

[Doctor]

32 minutes ago, LeZenor said:

It’s not really the same thing. We can’t compare lack of awareness of prices by certain players and deliberate attempts to defraud others by abusing the fact that certain items share resemblance or after luring players with cheap items. There is intent to defraud since you're going out of your way creating these listings and actively trying to scam people , whereas sniping is just happening when you’re at the right place at the right time.
 

If you took rp vouchers for instance a year ago or so, specifically 100 rp vouchers and 1000 rp vouchers, they used to look very similar. Players with malicious intend would deliberately abuse that fact by selling 100 rp vouchers at the price of 1000 rp vouchers in hope someone less attentive would fall for it. 
 

I’m unaware which items or pokemon are used now to defraud others via gtl but I highly doubt it’s anything less scummy

Like I said when this all happened, it's the exact same thing: trying to take advantage of other people's mistakes. No one willing to buy something from GTL legitimately would buy an overpriced RP voucher, that only happened to snipers. But somehow taking advantage of people listing things for the wrong price is allowed until said people are the ones who are making mistakes.

[LeZenor]

1 hour ago, Doctor said:

Like I said when this all happened, it's the exact same thing: trying to take advantage of other people's mistakes. No one willing to buy something from GTL legitimately would buy an overpriced RP voucher, that only happened to snipers. But somehow taking advantage of people listing things for the wrong price is allowed until said people are the ones who are making mistakes.

I don't entirely disagree with that, it's just that it's not entirely the same thing. On one hand, we have players who were abusing a feature in order to defraud others and on the other hand, players who fail to research what they are about to list on GTL and get taken advantage of thereafter. No one is willing to buy an overpriced RP Voucher unless they were mislead by the fact they could easily mistake one for another, snipers or not. You can't ask every single player in the game to not purchase any low-priced item on the gtl listed because a novice player made a mistake and expect every single one of them to listen. That's just unreasonable. Beside, they went through every step of the GTL and deliberately chose to list their items at chosen price regardless. Their action put them in this predicament while those who abused the gtl put others in this predicament.

Edited October 8, 2023 by LeZenor

[Doctor]

1 hour ago, LeZenor said:

I don't entirely disagree with that, it's just that it's not entirely the same thing. On one hand, we have players who were abusing a feature in order to defraud others and on the other hand, players who fail to research what they are about to list on GTL and get taken advantage of thereafter. No one is willing to buy an overpriced RP Voucher unless they were mislead by the fact they could easily mistake one for another, snipers or not. You can't ask every single player in the game to not purchase any low-priced item on the gtl listed because a novice player made a mistake and expect every single one of them to listen. That's just unreasonable. Beside, they went through every step of the GTL and deliberately chose to list their items at chosen price regardless. Their action put them in this predicament while those who abused the gtl put others in this predicament.

True, but devs not willing to add a reasonable time window before your listing becomes public so you can fix any mistakes in the pricing, but immediately adding the colored prices feature after the whole thing happened shows you the double standard regarding this whole thing, to be honest. Personally? I wouldn't allow either, and the feature I just suggested would be the easiest fix for that, since the overpricing scam has been snuffed out by the colored prices (besides extreme cases of market manipulations ofc but that's fair within a free market imo). They just don't want to because they don't want to deal with the backlash of those who depend entirely on flipping for in-game cash, which should already be a sign of it being an actual problem and not just a thing that happens sometimes. But idk, this whole argument was already discussed back then, and it was pretty obvious that those who snipe won't ever admit that it's taking advantage of other people's mistakes, but would scream when they'd be the ones taken advantage of. Dead end here, sadly

[kuuai]

12 hours ago, Goku said:

I'll give a simple example. A person is listing items consecutively at 1000 pokeyen and gains an audience in a time span of let's say 10 minutes. The items he lists isn't generally worth a lot but obviously he is taking a few 100k loss doing this. In this process he now knows there are several players sniping his items as he lists them. These players try their best to click the fastest to purchase the item because they know it will be ridiculously cheap. In this instance the user can list an item for 10 million pokeyen between all the chaos and someone might make the tragic mistake and buy it. They intentionally wait for a person to make the mistake which is indirectly defrauding a player by luring them to make a "mistake purchase" I call it GTL-Fishing and it's done by shit players. 

I understand. Thank you very much for giving an example

8 hours ago, razimove said:

so basically running a script that refreshes and instant buys things he finds below x value, any 3rd party program is a bannable offense. 

You wont get banned for sniping cheap stuff on gtl dont worry.

I understand now

Snipe cheap goods, it's not related to GTL Scamming, is it? And it won't be banned, right?

 

If that's the case, then I won't worry about those simple minded people around me anymore. hahahaha

 

Thank you very much for your answers!

[Grisaia]

Not directly related, but is lowballing hard considered scamming? I.e. if I offer $10M for a Kyu Hat or something along these lines, and they accept my offer immediately. My understanding is that scamming would involve someone attempting to convince someone to give something away or sell for very cheap via social engineering? Lowballing should *always* be fine.. right?

 

Related to the actual topic: 

6 hours ago, Doctor said:

Like I said when this all happened, it's the exact same thing: trying to take advantage of other people's mistakes. No one willing to buy something from GTL legitimately would buy an overpriced RP voucher, that only happened to snipers. But somehow taking advantage of people listing things for the wrong price is allowed until said people are the ones who are making mistakes.

All profit that comes from buying/selling barring long-time investments is done by taking advantage of other people's mistakes. Buy low, sell high, that's just capitalism. To have a truly fair trade system, all items and Pokemon would have to have a fixed value, but nobody wants that.

[BiuBiv]

 

 

[MightyMichele]

2 hours ago, kuuai said:

Excuse me, What is GTL Scamming?

Hello @kuuai! Nice to see you. I would love to answer your question, buddy ^-^

 

GTL Scamming refers to the act of manipulating the Global Trade Link (GTL) system with the intention of inducing other players to make mistakes in consistent, repetitive manner whereby they make more money from swindling than any normal gameplay would otherwise give (~Kyu). This practice usually involves fishing  tactics, creating misleading situations or luring players to commit a mistake, all strategies used utilizing to take advantage of other traders.

 

It's important to note that PokeMMO administrators have made it clear that any actions taken with the intent to harm or deceive other players are considered infractions of the game's rules. GTL Scamming falls into this category because it involves intentionally misleading or harming fellow trainers.

 

Here are the most important examples of GTL Scamming:

 

1. Misleading Listings: a player may attempt to deceive others by setting the price of a 100RP Reward Point Voucher to match that of a 1,000RP Reward Point Voucher. With minimal effort, these players can acquire PokeYen currency while harming those who have been misled. It's evident that the intention behind listing the 100RP voucher at this price is to mislead the buyer into believing it's a 1,000RP voucher.

 

2. Luring Players into Mistakes: Some individuals intentionally create chaotic situations on the GTL by rapidly listing items at low prices to confuse other traders. The goal is to trick players into making a "mistake purchase.".

 

It's worth noting that the Global Trade Link (GTL) operates under a level of anonymity. While it may be considered illegal to list items at misleading prices, the inherent anonymity of the GTL presents challenges in terms of enforcement. The bans imposed on players for GTL scams are a direct result of the substantial number of reports submitted, reflecting the community's commitment to maintaining fairness and integrity within the game.

 

It's important to clarify what doesn't constitute a scam. If you're not attempting to induce mistakes or mislead someone, such as listing an item or a monster at a higher price, it's considered acceptable ^-^

 

In conclusion, it's crucial to remember that even though the GTL operates anonymously, it doesn't mean there are no consequences for improper actions. We must actively contribute to fostering a fair and respectful trading environment within the GTL, ensuring that PokeMMO remains an inclusive and enjoyable space for everyone. The ongoing efforts of the community in advocating for improvements in the GTL experience, such as the new color system and filters, are highly commendable.

 

Thank you for your attention, and I hope you enjoy your game while upholding the values of fairness and respect within our community.   😄

 

Best regards,

MightyMichele

[MightyMichele]

3 hours ago, kuuai said:

Snipe cheap goods, it's not related to GTL Scamming, is it? And it won't be banned, right?

 

3 hours ago, kuuai said:

Picking up mistakes from others in a consistent and repetitive manner Is" it prohibited?

No, picking up mistakes from others in a consistent and repetitive manner is not prohibited. In fact, it's allowed within the GTL rules. If you notice a listing error, like an item or monster being priced too low, and you buy it, this isn't considered an infraction. However, it's important to understand that the GTL operates anonymously, so there's limited assistance you can provide to the person who made the mistake. Your purchase in such cases is entirely acceptable under GTL rules.

 

CN

不，在全球交易链接（GTL）中反复、一贯地捡便宜并不被禁止。事实上，在GTL规则内是允许的。如果你注意到有人在挂售物品或宝可梦时出现了定价错误，比如价格设置得太低，而你购买了这个物品，这并不被视为违规行为。然而，重要的是要理解GTL是匿名运行的，因此你对犯错者的帮助有限。在这种情况下，你的购买完全符合GTL规则。

[MightyMichele]

13 hours ago, Goku said:

In my opinion adding price indication colours (Ones that highlight the value) on the GTL was a mistake. If a item keeps being listed by several players for a higher value than it's actual market price, the programming on the GTL would accept it as the norm and then further more give players an indication that it is a "Fair" price when in fact it's not.

Hello! If I recall correctly, back in 2021, Desu mentioned that he was working on creating a complex mathematical algorithm to determine the price colors and their respective ranges. It appears that this algorithm requires a substantial number of purchases and possibly a delay to ensure that price changes take effect and influence the color change (based on my observations). So, just listing an item at a new price multiple times might not have a significant impact or any impact at all.

 

Considering that the system may be adjusted over time, and there isn't a precise data on how the colors change with price, here's what these colors typically indicate:

 

- WHITE represents prices up to 1.25 times the normal market value, usually considered good deals.

- YELLOW spans from 1.25 to 1.5 times, serving as a cautionary zone where you might be overpaying.

- RED signifies prices above 1.5 times the standard rate, often indicating overpriced listings that should be approached with caution.

 

Lastly, for new items that haven't been sold recently, they tend to stay white at any range (up to the maximum 1.999 thousand of millions price range).

 

If you ever happen to encounter some Elfbot clothes with a significantly high price, and they're in the white color category, it's likely because they haven't been sold frequently enough for the system to determine a new price. This situation is similar to what we observed with rare electric elfbot cosmetics; if memory serves, they were categorized as white not too long ago. Over time, as more of these clothing items are traded or sold, their color classification may change. This could also apply to certain older collections, like the 2016 collection, especially those that are less in demand and rare, possibly the grass elfbot outfit.

 

13 hours ago, Goku said:

That's been happening to elfbot outfits for months. What players do is they buy the majority of them on gtl and keep listing them for ridiculous prices on the GTL for the hopes of a temporary price inflation. 

It's essential to understand that this practice isn't exclusive to elfbot outfits; it happens with other cosmetics as well. Players often buy and hoard cosmetics they believe will become more valuable in the future, and they're eager to compete with each other when selling them. Buying these items in bulk isn't against the rules.

 

Furthermore, the PokeMMO staff consistently introduces new cosmetics to the game each year, ensuring that there are alternatives to expensive items. For instance, the Blue and Orange Flaming Skull masks have become quite pricey due to their popularity, much like some rare elfbot clothes. In such cases, players can explore other options while waiting for the market to adjust. I hope this explanation helps clarify things for you. ^-^

[kuuai]

1 hour ago, MightyMichele said:

Hello @kuuai! Nice to see you. I would love to answer your question, buddy ^-^

Oh, buddy, thank you very much. You spoke very comprehensively

Thank you very much for being willing to answer my question  (≧∇≦)ﾉ

[Doctor]

My god Michele we know you recently discovered ChatGPT but hit the brakes a bit on it

 

 

[MightyMichele]

@kuuai you are welcome. We are friends! Enjoy  (≧∇≦)ﾉ

[MightyMichele]

@DoctorHaha, it's just a lucky guess on my part! But hey, we all have our moments, right? o/

[Goku]

55 minutes ago, MightyMichele said:

Hello! If I recall correctly, back in 2021, Desu mentioned that he was working on creating a complex mathematical algorithm to determine the price colors and their respective ranges. It appears that this algorithm requires a substantial number of purchases and possibly a delay to ensure that price changes take effect and influence the color change (based on my observations). So, just listing an item at a new price multiple times might not have a significant impact or any impact at all.

 

Considering that the system may be adjusted over time, and there isn't a precise data on how the colors change with price, here's what these colors typically indicate:

 

- WHITE represents prices up to 1.25 times the normal market value, usually considered good deals.

- YELLOW spans from 1.25 to 1.5 times, serving as a cautionary zone where you might be overpaying.

- RED signifies prices above 1.5 times the standard rate, often indicating overpriced listings that should be approached with caution.

 

Lastly, for new items that haven't been sold recently, they tend to stay white at any range (up to the maximum 1.999 thousand of millions price range).

 

If you ever happen to encounter some Elfbot clothes with a significantly high price, and they're in the white color category, it's likely because they haven't been sold frequently enough for the system to determine a new price. This situation is similar to what we observed with rare electric elfbot cosmetics; if memory serves, they were categorized as white not too long ago. Over time, as more of these clothing items are traded or sold, their color classification may change. This could also apply to certain older collections, like the 2016 collection, especially those that are less in demand and rare, possibly the grass elfbot outfit.

 

 

It's essential to understand that this practice isn't exclusive to elfbot outfits; it happens with other cosmetics as well. Players often buy and hoard cosmetics they believe will become more valuable in the future, and they're eager to compete with each other when selling them. Buying these items in bulk isn't against the rules.

 

Furthermore, the PokeMMO staff consistently introduces new cosmetics to the game each year, ensuring that there are alternatives to expensive items. For instance, the Blue and Orange Flaming Skull masks have become quite pricey due to their popularity, much like some rare elfbot clothes. In such cases, players can explore other options while waiting for the market to adjust. I hope this explanation helps clarify things for you. ^-^

Thanks for the update. Didn't really need it. My knowledge regarding vanities is VERY Broad. Keep in mind I was around when the first ones were released so I have seen how the market has evolved. Regarding the color system, it is obviously flawed. I saw a Grass Elfbot Outfit on the GTL for 1 billion yen in the "White Category". So here is what I am saying, there is a handful of players that corroborate in sequence. This being said, if this group of individuals keep listing the same item for a price far higher than it's original value, the GTL will regard this as a norm price over time even though it's actual worth is significantly far less. "Player lists Vanity for 1 bil, a buddy buys it and exchanges again with the player. The action is repeated multiple times to trick the GTL into thinking that the value is correct" Though groups hoarding items and manipulating their value isn't against the rules, the GTL system needs to be updated accordingly to prevent it. Basically the group is taking advantage and presenting a false value indication for the majority of players through the GTL which I think is bullshit. Afaik you were 1 of the players inflating the values of elfbots. Just saying.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[MightyMichele]

1 hour ago, Goku said:

Regarding the color system, it is obviously flawed. I saw a Grass Elfbot Outfit on the GTL for 1 billion yen in the "White Category". So here is what I am saying, there is a handful of players that corroborate in sequence. This being said, if this group of individuals keep listing the same item for a price far higher than it's original value, the GTL will regard this as a norm price over time even though it's actual worth is significantly far less. "Player lists Vanity for 1 bil, a buddy buys it and exchanges again with the player.

I strongly believe that the grass elfbot outfit, categorized with a white price, likely hasn't been sold frequently enough to establish an accurate price range. It seems highly unlikely that someone purchased it for that much. Additionally, an in-game friend mentioned that it could potentially be a glitch in the system.

 

1 hour ago, Goku said:

 Afaik you were 1 of the players inflating the values of elfbots. Just saying.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Whether or not I have any elfbot stuff, that's not the issue ^-^

[Seth]

Oh no, we back. Someone should just link the original thread instead of continuing the discussion.