Kiliminati Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Probably UU. Still takes hits like a uguu and is slow as hell.Lf adaptability I'd use it in OU at least, but I'm pretty biased cause I think it's hella fun to run with dragon dance haha :P Edited January 2, 2015 by Kiliminati Link to comment
Gunthug Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 dat dragon dance kingdra tho Kiliminati 1 Link to comment
berzerk428 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think this is a great idea, I'd really like to see this change being made Link to comment
MasterExquisite Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 So all hidden powers will be special? Link to comment
Kiliminati Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 So all hidden powers will be special?Yeah, in generation 4 and above all Hidden Power types were changed to special. Actually, the entire move itself became classified as special. Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) After reading through the responses, I am in favor of making the change. It's going to alter the game very drastically and will provide players with even more to sift through when attempting to dominate the new meta. A few players have noted that this certainly will not help to restore balance between old rich players and new players, but it will offer the necessity to rebreed certain pokes (Snorlax, Ursaring, etc) to obtain moves like physical Crunch which will replace moves that have been altered like Shadow Ball and Hidden Power. With this change you will see some pokes get buffed, such as Tyranitar, Salamence, and Dragonite, as well as others being nerfed like Electabuzz, Alakazam, and Houndoom (ty for having decent attack). Those being affected most are the pokemon that have limited access to STAB moves as it is like physical Bug-types that can't use Megahorn. To avoid balancing issues after this is implemented, I would suggest finding a way to choose between a physical or special hidden power, that or go ahead and implement all Gen 4 moves. Without all of the pokemon available to Gen 4, we might face an incredible number of balancing problems with the inclusion of certain moves, for example Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, and Stealth Rocks, and the boost in moves like Outrage and High Jump Kick. Finding balance will be one hell of a job for the tier council members if this were to be implemented and a lot of decisions will need to be made preemptively and simply changed later if they weren't the right choice. I'm not exactly sure where the idea behind this change came from or the necessity of it, but the one clear-cut benefit of this would be to set PokeMMO apart from all other Pokemon games available even further. The more unique our game becomes, the more desirable it will be. Edited January 2, 2015 by DoubleJJ RysPicz, semjon, Yaguarete and 6 others 9 Link to comment
Yaguarete Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 i think the better we can do is keep it Gen 3. this makes the difference between pokemmo and showdown, for example. please keep this unique meta. SirYurop 1 Link to comment
ThinkNice Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I'll be leading the gen IV mechanics tests like I did in another place if people are up for it. I basically do it in a few stages. Stage I: Special/Physical split. With PokeMMO Tutor and Egg moves. Stage II: The above + gen IV moves Stage III: + gen IV abilities Stage IV: + gen IV items I'd manage a viability thtead and banlost based on discussion. Testing will be done in Showdown. More about this in a post tomorrow. RysPicz, Emlee, Lolleh and 7 others 10 Link to comment
codylramey Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I'll be leading the gen IV mechanics tests like I did in another place if people are up for it. I basically do it in a few stages. Stage I: Special/Physical split. With PokeMMO Tutor and Egg moves. Stage II: The above + gen IV moves Stage III: + gen IV abilities Stage IV: + gen IV items I'd manage a viability thtead and banlost based on discussion. Testing will be done in Showdown. More about this in a post tomorrow. Im down to clown Cyen 1 Link to comment
Kiliminati Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I'll be leading the gen IV mechanics tests like I did in another place if people are up for it. I basically do it in a few stages. Stage I: Special/Physical split. With PokeMMO Tutor and Egg moves. Stage II: The above + gen IV moves Stage III: + gen IV abilities Stage IV: + gen IV items I'd manage a viability thtead and banlost based on discussion. Testing will be done in Showdown. More about this in a post tomorrow.Some Pokémon really need their abilities in order to be successful with the moves they have (for example, technician on Scyther and Breloom). Perhaps three stages with Stage II containing the addition of both moves and abilities? Link to comment
DaftCoolio Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 dont you think you should at least finish gen 3 before starting on gen 4? SirYurop 1 Link to comment
Rache Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 If the split happens, physical Pursuit should be looked at for a possible ban. It's... Pretty insane. A somewhat niche move at the moment, but I can see it being very powerful if certain Pokemon gain the ability to use it well. Calcs assume that the opponent has a neutral nature and no investment. Calcs. [spoiler] Jolly nature, 252 attack, Choice Band Aerodactyl outspeeds pretty much everything and can outright destroy Pokemon like Gengar and Starmie without a second thought. It can also pick off almost anything if it's weakened enough. Switching out: Choice Band Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. Gengar: 176-208 (130.3 - 154%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Choice Band Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. Gengar: 90-106 (66.6 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery If Gengar is healthy and predicts the Pursuit, it can still go down in one hit anyway. Choice Band Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. Gengar: 124-147 (91.8 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO The same thing happens to Starmie if it has some prior damage. Switching out: Choice Band Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. Starmie: 136-160 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Choice Band Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. Starmie: 69-82 (50.7 - 60.2%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery If it has >60% HP, it can still take a ton from other moves. Choice Band Aerodactyl Double-Edge vs. Starmie: 101-119 (74.2 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery As fast and strong as it is, Aerodactyl isn't even the worst offender since it can't switch into much, can be OHKOd right back, and can't take on a healthy Starmie and expect to win. Aero outspeeds everything, so it isn't going to be burned if it comes in on a revenge kill. Adamant nature, 252 attack, Choice Band Snorlax forces a lot of Pokemon out that can do absolutely nothing to it, particularly special attackers. It doesn't even need to be fast to use Pursuit stupidly well. Staying in: Choice Band Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 102-120 (75.5 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: Choice Band Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 202-238 (149.6 - 176.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Choice Band burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 52-62 (38.5 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: Choice Band burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 102-120 (75.5 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Staying in: Choice Band Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 78-92 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: Choice Band Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 154-182 (113.2 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Adamant nature, 68 attack, Curse Staying in: Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 45-54 (33 - 39.7%) -- 24.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 88-104 (64.7 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Staying in: +1 Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 68-80 (50 - 58.8%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: +1 Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 132-156 (97 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO Staying in: Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 59-70 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 115-136 (85.1 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Staying in: burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 30-36 (22.2 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 59-70 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Staying in: +1 Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 88-104 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: +1 Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 173-204 (128.1 - 151.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: +1 burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 45-54 (33.3 - 40%) -- 31.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: +1 burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 88-104 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Staying in: +2 burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 59-70 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: +2 burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 115-136 (85.1 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Jolly nature, 200 attack, Dragon Dance Gets STAB, outspeeds Starmie at +1, already a monster. Need I say more? Staying in: Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 103-122 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Switching out: Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 204-240 (151.1 - 177.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 57-68 (41.9 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Switching out: burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 112-132 (82.3 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Staying in: +1 Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 153-180 (113.3 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO Switching out: +1 Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 302-356 (223.7 - 263.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: +1 burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 85-100 (62.5 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Switching out: +1 burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 168-198 (123.5 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 79-94 (58 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Switching out: Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 156-184 (114.7 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: +1 Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 117-138 (86 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO Switching out: +1 Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 231-272 (169.8 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO Starmie can't OHKO with Surf. It loses the instant that Tyranitar Dragon Dances. Adamant, 252 attack, Choice Band Staying in: Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 173-204 (127.2 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO Switching out: Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 345-406 (253.6 - 298.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Choice Band burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 88-104 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Switching out: Choice Band burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 173-204 (128.1 - 151.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 132-156 (97 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO Switching out: Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 263-310 (193.3 - 227.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO 44HP EVs ensures that Tyranitar survives a Surf from a modest Starmie, and a timid one can't OHKO at all. Max speed/special attack Starmie dies no matter what it does due to the Sandstorm damage. [/spoiler] This is only scratching the surface of how stupidly good a physical Pursuit is too - the revenge killing potential of Aerodactyl, Snorlax's ability to force a large percentage of the meta out, and the sheer power of Tyranitar make this move worth looking at. It forces a lot of mind games that are almost always in favour of the Pursuit user. A lot of Pokemon have access to this move too, including Pokemon as stupidly good as Metagross. [spoiler]Beedrill Raticate Fearow Dodrio Hitmonchan Hitmonlee Scyther Tauros Yanma Umbreon Murkrow Dunsparce Scizor Hitmontop Sceptile Pelipper Zangoose Dusclops Absol Metang Metagross Pidgeot Arbok Nidoqueen Crobat Parasect Diglett Dugtrio Rhydon Aerodactyl Snorlax Furret Ariados Aipom Heracross Sneasel Skarmory Houndoom Tyranitar Linoone Swellow Vigoroth Slaking Altaria Banette Electabuzz Smeargle [/spoiler] DoubleJ, BurntZebra, KingBowser and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Senile Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Some Pokémon really need their abilities in order to be successful with the moves they have (for example, technician on Scyther and Breloom). Perhaps three stages with Stage II containing the addition of both moves and abilities? >some pokemon really need their abilities in order to be successful Alright, let's go over the basics m8. Gen 4 Breloom didn't have Technician. Techniloom wasn't a thing until Gen 5. Poison Heal Breloom was pretty baller, though. Beyond that, the only thing a pokemon like Scizor gets out of Technician is Bullet Punch and a more reliable Pursuit. I can't even think of any benefit Scyther gets out of it. Quick Attack, maybe? I guess both of them get Bug Bite, but U-turn is OP m8. To avoid balancing issues after this is implemented, I would suggest finding a way to choose between a physical or special hidden power, that or go ahead and implement all Gen 4 moves. Without all of the pokemon available to Gen 4, we might face an incredible number of balancing problems with the inclusion of certain moves, for example Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, and Stealth Rocks, and the boost in moves like Outrage and High Jump Kick. Finding balance will be one hell of a job for the tier council members if this were to be implemented and a lot of decisions will need to be made preemptively and simply changed later if they weren't the right choice. Draco Meteor is just a thing that exists. Dragon types are pretty much inherently broken in every generation past 4th. That's just how it works. I have no idea why you find Dark Pulse problematic. Stealth Rocks help deal with the insanity that are spooky droganz. And also invalidating everything else weak to rock moves, but such is life. High Jump Kick only goes to 100 in 4th gen. It's whatever. Close Combat is straight up better, so Jump Kick is never seen in 4th gen, except on shitty pokemon like Medicham. Outrage should really just stay at 90 Base Power. I don't think there's a person alive who genuinely believes base 120 power Outrage was a good balance-wise decision, considering it, along with physical dragon moves, singlehandedly made anything with "dragon" next to it's name a potential OU threat. I think you're kind of overstating how broken things would be. Lots of things might seem broken, but if everything in 4th gen is in at the same time, a lot of things that might seem "broken" will kind of balance themselves out. With that being said, NU/UU will have to be completely different. [spoiler]and it's pretty safe to say the option to toggle physical hidden power isn't happening, since a lower reliance on hidden power is one of the best benefits to this change.[/spoiler] If the split happens, physical Pursuit should be looked at for a possible ban. It's... Pretty insane. A somewhat niche move at the moment, but I can see it being very powerful if certain Pokemon gain the ability to use it well. Calcs assume that the opponent has a neutral nature and no investment. Calcs. [spoiler] Jolly nature, 252 attack, Choice Band Aerodactyl outspeeds pretty much everything and can outright destroy Pokemon like Gengar and Starmie without a second thought. It can also pick off almost anything if it's weakened enough. Switching out: Choice Band Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. Gengar: 176-208 (130.3 - 154%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Choice Band Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. Gengar: 90-106 (66.6 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery If Gengar is healthy and predicts the Pursuit, it can still go down in one hit anyway. Choice Band Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. Gengar: 124-147 (91.8 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO The same thing happens to Starmie if it has some prior damage. Switching out: Choice Band Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. Starmie: 136-160 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Choice Band Aerodactyl Pursuit vs. Starmie: 69-82 (50.7 - 60.2%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery If it has >60% HP, it can still take a ton from other moves. Choice Band Aerodactyl Double-Edge vs. Starmie: 101-119 (74.2 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery As fast and strong as it is, Aerodactyl isn't even the worst offender since it can't switch into much, can be OHKOd right back, and can't take on a healthy Starmie and expect to win. Aero outspeeds everything, so it isn't going to be burned if it comes in on a revenge kill. Adamant nature, 252 attack, Choice Band Snorlax forces a lot of Pokemon out that can do absolutely nothing to it, particularly special attackers. It doesn't even need to be fast to use Pursuit stupidly well. Staying in: Choice Band Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 102-120 (75.5 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: Choice Band Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 202-238 (149.6 - 176.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Choice Band burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 52-62 (38.5 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: Choice Band burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 102-120 (75.5 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Staying in: Choice Band Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 78-92 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: Choice Band Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 154-182 (113.2 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Adamant nature, 68 attack, Curse Staying in: Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 45-54 (33 - 39.7%) -- 24.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 88-104 (64.7 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Staying in: +1 Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 68-80 (50 - 58.8%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: +1 Snorlax Pursuit vs. Starmie: 132-156 (97 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO Staying in: Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 59-70 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 115-136 (85.1 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Staying in: burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 30-36 (22.2 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 59-70 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Staying in: +1 Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 88-104 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: +1 Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 173-204 (128.1 - 151.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: +1 burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 45-54 (33.3 - 40%) -- 31.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: +1 burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 88-104 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Staying in: +2 burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 59-70 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Switching out: +2 burned Snorlax Pursuit vs. Gengar: 115-136 (85.1 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Jolly nature, 200 attack, Dragon Dance Gets STAB, outspeeds Starmie at +1, already a monster. Need I say more? Staying in: Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 103-122 (76.2 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Switching out: Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 204-240 (151.1 - 177.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 57-68 (41.9 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Switching out: burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 112-132 (82.3 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Staying in: +1 Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 153-180 (113.3 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO Switching out: +1 Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 302-356 (223.7 - 263.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: +1 burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 85-100 (62.5 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Switching out: +1 burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 168-198 (123.5 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 79-94 (58 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Switching out: Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 156-184 (114.7 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: +1 Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 117-138 (86 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO Switching out: +1 Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 231-272 (169.8 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO Starmie can't OHKO with Surf. It loses the instant that Tyranitar Dragon Dances. Adamant, 252 attack, Choice Band Staying in: Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 173-204 (127.2 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO Switching out: Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 345-406 (253.6 - 298.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Choice Band burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 88-104 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery Switching out: Choice Band burned Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Gengar: 173-204 (128.1 - 151.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO Staying in: Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 132-156 (97 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO Switching out: Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. Starmie: 263-310 (193.3 - 227.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO 44HP EVs ensures that Tyranitar survives a Surf from a modest Starmie, and a timid one can't OHKO at all. Max speed/special attack Starmie dies no matter what it does due to the Sandstorm damage. [/spoiler] This is only scratching the surface of how stupidly good a physical Pursuit is too - the revenge killing potential of Aerodacty, Snorlax's ability to force a large percentage of the meta out, and the sheer power of Tyranitar make this move worth looking at. It forces a lot of mind games that are almost always in favour of the Pursuit user. A lot of Pokemon have access to this move too, including Pokemon as stupidly good as Metagross. [spoiler]Beedrill Raticate Fearow Dodrio Hitmonchan Hitmonlee Scyther Tauros Yanma Umbreon Murkrow Dunsparce Scizor Hitmontop Sceptile Pelipper Zangoose Dusclops Absol Metang Metagross Pidgeot Arbok Nidoqueen Crobat Parasect Diglett Dugtrio Rhydon Aerodactyl Snorlax Furret Ariados Aipom Heracross Sneasel Skarmory Houndoom Tyranitar Linoone Swellow Vigoroth Slaking Altaria Banette Electabuzz Smeargle [/spoiler] Pursuit is as pursuit does. Ignoring the Tyranitar example, because Pursuit is hardly what tips anything in favor of Tyranitar (kek), the Aerodactyl thing feels a bit forced. It's already getting tons of competition with the buff every attacker except for it is getting, and the reintroduction of spooky dino. Snorlax is the example which is the most relevant, really. With that being said, running Pursuit on any set except maybe a choice band set loses valuable coverage. [spoiler]Besides, who says we have to run Gengar and Starmie? They don't have to be top OU pokemon. Plus, it helps give a good answer to Dugtrio + Special attacker teams, as you can pursuit trap those same special attackers.[/spoiler] Link to comment
Rigamorty Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 The more this is discussed, the more I want it, and I already really fucking wanted it. Kabutops with physical waterfall + rockslide would do dirty things to doubles, hue. Link to comment
Robofiend Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think we should do it now just for fun (and to make prediction a little harder / more interesting). A couple points: 1. Salamence will probably be banned and Dragonite could be borderline OP. Most physical sweepers don't stand to benefit that much and special sweepers are already pretty strong in their own right. I think it'd be a lot cooler for UU, as the elemental punches allow physical sweepers to break certain walls much easier. 2. It'd be wise to consider adding some of the 4+ generation moves to balance some things out. Focus Blast, Aqua Jet and Night Slash/Shadow Sneak are all interesting options. 3. This kind of thing could lead to a really fast-paced metagame. Walls (outside of Blissey) are going to take a beating. 4. Electabuzz could be pretty OP. Link to comment
FlareBlitzz Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Special Gengar with Sludgebomb, Shadowball STAB gonna rule.. Link to comment
magorax Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Ok ya know wut I h8 you guys, you win.... If your gunna go through with this shit, atleast gib some gen 4 pokes throughout the year, just like some hoenn pokes were givin to firered Another spooky haloween thing and stuff like that might be kewl Edited January 2, 2015 by magorax Link to comment
Kiliminati Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Special Gengar with Sludgebomb, Shadowball STAB gonna rule..Physical water STAB with waterfall/aqua tail on Gyarados and Swampert will help out a lot also, although Gyarados does lose HP Flying and is forced to resort to bounce if it wants flying type STAB... But *if* Stone Edge was also implemented, oh boy. Edit: I wonder if the community would rather have the split without gen 4 moves, or with them. Both paths could work in theory, but honestly who knows when we don't even have any gen 4 pokemon right now anyway, not to mention items, abilities, etc. Edited January 2, 2015 by Kiliminati Link to comment
londark Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 i don't really know how i feel about this, but what i know is that if the split is done then at least all the damaging moves from Gen4 should be included right away Link to comment
Bestfriendss Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) i don't really know how i feel about this, but what i know is that if the split is done then at least all the damaging moves from Gen4 should be included right away No keep the moveset the way it is, it provides critical thinking just like the breeding does. We need more thinking here in this game. EDIT: Provide the split, I am in full favor of that, but keep the Gen III moveset Edited January 2, 2015 by Bestfriendss Link to comment
londark Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 No keep the moveset the way it is, it provides critical thinking just like the breeding does. We need more thinking here in this game. EDIT: Provide the split, I am in full favor of that, but keep the Gen III moveset Yeah, and lets shit on some pokes like banette who won't have a good offensive move not called Return, and Astonish as best STAB move, lets shit on any Physical Bug type not called Heracross/Ariados for not having a Physical Bug Move etc... flavajabari 1 Link to comment
MasterExquisite Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 No keep the moveset the way it is, it provides critical thinking just like the breeding does. We need more thinking here in this game. EDIT: Provide the split, I am in full favor of that, but keep the Gen III moveset I don't even know what you mean by this.. if you have the mechanics why wouldn't you have the moves? Link to comment
Bestfriendss Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yeah, and lets shit on some pokes like banette who won't have a good offensive move not called Return, and Astonish as best STAB move, lets shit on any Physical Bug type not called Heracross/Ariados for not having a Physical Bug Move etc... Hera and Ari have Megahorn (physical) And even it is speical, Hera has access to its fighting type so why bother if you can't get in a bug move, use the same logic for Breloom, we don't have grass knot, so we don't have a stab move for loom. Good on the banette, it requires a lot of critical thinking and we need more of that in this game, the new breeding system gives us that critical thinking that we all need (I have to do that in my practice college courses irl any ways, so these systems can help me with my thinking skills any ways). Link to comment
londark Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Hera and Ari have Megahorn (physical) And even it is speical, Hera has access to its fighting type so why bother if you can't get in a bug move, use the same logic for Breloom, we don't have grass knot, so we don't have a stab move for loom. Good on the banette, it requires a lot of critical thinking and we need more of that in this game, the new breeding system gives us that critical thinking that we all need (I have to do that in my practice college courses irl any ways, so these systems can help me with my thinking skills any ways). Read again, i said that Hera and Ariados will be the only Physical Bug types to have access to a Physical decent move, Scyther/Scizor, Armaldo, Pinsir, Parasect, Ninjask ect will not. And you can just say, "but they have another type to compensate"(also cause pinsir doesn't have one, and LOL Steel type in gen3 for Scizor ) ... EDIT: And Breelom will have anyway Bullet Seed if he wants a Physical Grass move Edited January 2, 2015 by londar dedegendut 1 Link to comment
SirYurop Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Gen 4 pokes??? Pls no May some attks or abilitys would be cool and help to some pokes to be more used + more variety what is always great inb4 they implement megas, rotom, agumon and exodia Ps want to say again im against this spilt Link to comment
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