Never-Used Tier and Usage Movements

[OrangeManiac]

been playing a lot of NU lately

 

pls ban Kingler, Granbull and Jynx for starters k thnx

 

Give Fearow time. Aggron + Golem counters it hard and scarf is fairly good against but might be eventually banworthy. But the aforementioned 3, pls ban. Or make discussion threads first and I'll get in more details.

[pachima]

I´m more inclined to a ban on poliwrath, that shit is everywhere.

[OrangeManiac]

1 minute ago, pachima said:

I´m more inclined to a ban on poliwrath, that shit is everywhere.

For something to be everywhere does not mean it's necessarily OP, it can be used so much to check OP Pokemon. I've seen nothing OP about Poliwrath, it doesn't sweep with ease or wall or support. It's not unhealthy in any sort of way, just a nice standard switch in for Water and Rock type spammers. I've not seen Poliwrath that much but just a general tiering point.

[pachima]

Just now, OrangeManiac said:

For something to be everywhere does not mean it's necessarily OP, it can be used so much to check OP Pokemon. I've seen nothing OP about Poliwrath, it doesn't sweep with ease or wall or support. It's not unhealthy in any sort of way, just a nice standard switch in for Water and Rock type spammers. I've not seen Poliwrath that much but just a general tiering point.

I know it isnt op, but I use so many water mons I wouldnt mind seeing that banned hehe.

[DoubleJ]

I'm really surprised Jynx + Granbull + Kingler are still NU. Tangela is needed on every team just for Kingler alone and even then you can still get swept if you've got some unfortunate damage against a +2 Double-Edge. Jynx is removed by fast Pursuit users, but that thing can almost guarantee a kill since there are almost zero switch-ins for it. A player with a good scout and great prediction skills can destroy any opponent with Jynx. I'd honestly compare it most to CB Rhydon in UU back before it was banned last summer. Granbull has the versatility and raw power to obliterate most teams. Bulk-Up, CB, Intimidate, the list goes on. 

[pachima]

The problem with jynx is that depending on its set, its few checks change. Kinda similar on how gengar deserves a ban from OU, so yeah I agree.

 

[DoubleJ]

#bankingler

[raaidn]

#banthecrab

 

edit: cba running tangela to have 25% chance to live flail

 

+2 252+ Atk Kingler Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 164-194 (95.3 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Edited June 10, 2016 by raaidn

[BurntZebra]

8 minutes ago, raaidn said:

#banthecrab

 

edit: cba running tangela to have 25% chance to live flail

 

+2 252+ Atk Kingler Flail (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangela: 164-194 (95.3 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Just run bullet seed tangela. GG sub flail kingler

[RysPicz]

The way I see it:

 

1. Ban this fucking doomdoge. Once Doom gets the boot from UU, Jynx will almost automatically get out of NU into UU as one of the most powerful and potent wallbreakers without the need of any discussion threads or shit. I'm more than sure people do realise how incredibly powerful is it's dualstab coming out from 115 base special attack.

 

2. Guys are right, Kingler and Granbull are ridiculous, especially the vicious Krab. Granbull with it's expansive physical moveset can practically cover the entire tier and once it's out, it will either badly dent something or KO.

 

3. Fearow was NU already 2 or 3 times. How many more times you will bring it down just to ban it again?

 

4. GET TO FUCKING WORK BECAUSE NU AND UU ARE FUCKING UNPLAYABLE AND YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING EXCEPT FUCKING DISCUSSING. WE NEED DOING NOT TALKING FFS

[OrangeManiac]

Granbull is insane, it's usually one kill every round it plays but I think Kingler and Jynx are the most cancerous bunch right now.

 

to Forfi:

 

Fearow has not been moved down, it's NU after the reset metagame. Now that the metagame is different enough because of scarf I'd say instaboot for Fearow would be a huge mistake considering it was kinda on the edge before of being banworthy.

[raaidn]

Well kinda disagree that jynx gonna be godtier in UU, even without houndoom. Yes it needs to go from NU, but in UU special def kanga with earlybird gonna wall the cm/kiss set, and then u have scizor which resist both stabs with access to pursuit

[RysPicz]

Shit, right, I forgot Scizor is back in UU again too

[KaynineXL]

Thing is with Fearow, I don't think it was ever so strong that nothing could handle it, clearly some stuff do, such as Solrock. At the time it was removed before, Solrock wasn't used much and had a hard to fitting into a team, it wasn't too viable back then. Right now, Solrock walls a bunch of the meta and synergies well with Bello/Tangela and Poliwrath(all 3 making a sturdy core imo) but I still think Fearow is strong, even with Solrock on a lot of teams as it gives fast physical presence and can pursuit Jynx if it gets out of hand.

[DoubleJ]

1 hour ago, BurntZebra said:

Just run bullet seed tangela. GG sub flail kingler

tfw you might not break the sub 

 

0- Atk Tangela Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. 68 HP / 0 Def Kingler: 28-40 (20.1 - 28.7%) -- approx. 81.1% chance to 4HKO

[BlackJovi]

lmfao why is kingler in nu

 

#BanKingler 

[RysPicz]

Awesome guys, doomdoge getting the shit from UU.

 

Can you now deal with Kingler, Jynx and Granbull in NU? :)

Edited June 13, 2016 by RysPicz

[OrangeManiac]

Alright, I'll have to take back what I've said a little bit. After getting destroyed by Yubel^12's stall team in NU and spectating some other matches I have to say NU is fairly diverse and stall teams are viable, even though they perhaps need a little bit of more specific team building than offensive ones. Granbull mostly seems quite a let down to me, it's basically swept away from special specs/life orb users and usually just get 1 kill even on a good day. Kingler and Jynx still seem cancerous but not at least in the way of making stall unviable. So maybe we need to rethink a little bit.

[pachima]

Petition to ban heracross from NU

[FinnTheMember]

after reading your comments looking like ,

NU is a place for 0-100 damage power pokes or unstab pokes,

UU is a place for all +110 stab damage power.

[Leorodo]

I'm more surprised jynx is still in NU over anything else.

In a tier where spikes are extremely viable with a lack of good rapid spinners, jynx is clearly too much for the tier with its offensive capabilities.

Jynx is very versatile with sets such as calm mind, lovely kiss, fake tears(with sub, 3 coverage moves or lovely kiss) and choice specs. With this versatility there is no clear safe switch-in to it and by the time a player has figured out the jynx set they have likely lost a huge amount of momentum in the match(such as anything that isn't hypno being put to sleep) and could result in the loss of one of the player's party.

 

Fake tears+spikes vs its 'switch-ins':

 

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hypno: 121-144 (63 - 75%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Shadow Ball vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Grumpig: 148-177 (79.1 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Grumpig: 62-74 (33.1 - 39.5%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes (beats pig 1v1)

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Psychic vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 125-148 (72.6 - 86%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes (Sassy flareon doesn't have room for quick attack and only does around 25% anyway)

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kecleon: 118-140 (70.6 - 83.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes

After kecleon's ability:

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. -2 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kecleon: 58-70 (34.7 - 41.9%) -- 77.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. -2 252 HP / 0 SpD Metang: 109-130 (65.2 - 77.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes

252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Ice Beam vs. -2 0 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 136-162 (93.7 - 111.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes

 

Pretty much gurantees a kill.

 

The revenge kill argument is not foolproof- in order for something to revenge kill it, jynx would have needed to kill something first and if the jynx is behind a sub then this does not matter. If you decide to predict fake tears and go into a pursuiter for example, they jynx could sub and you're pretty screwed and with the majority of pursuiters being weak to ice(fearow,scyther) they cannot pivot into a jynx like a sneasel could have into predicted STAB moves if it was NU. The fact revenge killing is one of the only guaranteed ways to check jynx shows how centralising it is.

 

Maybe with houndoom being test-banned in UU, jynx might be moving up to UU anyway but I feel it is unhealthy to stay in NU any longer.

[KaynineXL]

Out of all the potential bans, I'd agree with Leo.. Jynx is the most problematic. It's just too versatile with too many different sets and you can be punished heavily just by trying to figure out which set it is. I feel like the main reason people actually use Fearow is mainly just to revenge Jynx. 

 

Granbul, while hitting like a truck it does have terrible speed and hates to be hit by special attacks, there isn't exactly a solid switch for it, but you can play around it if you predict right. It shouldn't be sweeping with its bad speed but It's great at what it does - wall break.

 

Kingler is a little like Jynx in the sense you don't really know the set and could cause problems, but I think it's less punishing because you can team build to make sure you have Pokemon to handle Kingler. Tangela along with a priority user or Rough Skin on Sharpedo is usually enough to stop getting swept and there is encore Jumpluff which walls every set.

Edited June 17, 2016 by KaynineXL

[OrangeManiac]

Yeah, Jynx is straight obnoxious. Not only does it cause some serious damage w/ Life Orb and have all around coverage with Hidden Power but Lovely Kiss is ridiculously strong too combined with the power. An interesting set I saw Calm Mind, Lovely Kiss, Sub, Ice Beam and late game this is so cancerous - it is a non-stoppable sweep when Lovely Kiss lands. Even if this isn't a foul proof set, the fact the it's so unpredictable and causes some serious damage is too much. Pretty much equivalent to OU Gengar - except even worse.

Edited June 16, 2016 by OrangeManiac