[PSL 6] Week Four

[Kizhaz]

5 hours ago, Rendiz said:

Let's not confuse what you are doing. You are purely trying to get the free win for your team as is within your rights, but please spare the false empathy its very condescending. Sure we have 3 substitutes but that doesn't mean shit when you account how active they are + how little time there was remaining for the week, There would have been very little if not no time to build a team that is even if any of them were online (kek). The only reason you would even bring this up is if you were suggesting the substitute would be given an extension which we all know is false.

This is why I brought up my incident in week 1. Besides the eq it was literally the exact same circumstance, A match was scheduled late on a Sunday, the score sitting 5-4, and 1 player did not turn up. My team acted upon this, every player helped trying to locate Tim or help Arch with team building in a limited time frame. I knew Arch only had a few hours before he had to leave too and I made sure to contact his opponent that I would be making a substitution if Tim didn't show up. There is a reason PSL is a team sport, a reason that it takes 6 for a win. I don't see this as a decision against Ari as much as a decision against Cuboned for not being decisive. Also I only have 1 substitute, I'm sure at least 1 of Cubones 3 would've been contactable during the busiest hours on Pokemmo, whether in game on forums or elsewhere.

 

 

I also don't see why there is so much talk about the time of the match scheduling, it's on both players that they contacted each other so late not one over the other, but even still I couldn't care less if they contacted each other on Monday or Sunday, what matters is if they manage to agree upon a time. The problem is if one player goes MIA during the agreed upon time whether it be because of an earthquake, struck by lightning or just overslept, the reason doesn't matter because it has the same result, a missing player. This is where anyone on Cuboned could've taken action, idk if they were celebrating Hassan's win from 30min prior but surely someone could've put 2 and 2 together and realised the last decisive match was yet to be played with mere hours until the deadline.

 

What's all this talk about clairvoyance and predicting the unpredictable? It's not about knowing the future, it's about planning for the worst. They don't have lifeguards at the Olympic swimming because they know Michael Phelps is going to start drowning, it's precautionary. It's the reason we have substitutes in the first place, there should always be a backup plan should the worst happen.

 

3 hours ago, gbwead said:

When defiance is described as a childish and pathetic act, smh.

 

I can tell you don't have a younger sibling, when my little brother is refusing to eat proper food I don't say he did a good job for taking a stand, he's acting like a child (prob because he is one). Now when a group of people refuse to continue with something they all agreed upon and understood because something didn't go their way, that is also childish.

[xilias]

3 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

I can tell you don't have a younger sibling

He has me :3

[CCMayhem]

13 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

He said he would get the matches played by adding in the no extension rule. So to make it clear this is exactly what happens when you don't play your match. Ari doesn't play his match and now you are surprised? It's not biased more like honesty.

 

Its not like it wasn't extenuating circumstances though, i imagine him huddled in a bathtub somewhere the ground is shaking glasses falling off shelves, and all this guy can think is "I gota get on for my PSL match" the power comes back on he races to his computer eager to get on and play his match and then he discovers it was forfeit, he probably fell to his knees and yelled at the universe for screwing him over.

 

But seriously, it was an earthquake tho let it be a cautionary tale reschedule the match and watch it never happen again. Probably a better course of action then having a bunch of his team members boycott their matches.

[NikhilR]

2 hours ago, Liberalisme said:

This is bullshit and unfair.  How is it Arimanius his fault that there was a earthquake in his town?  You just wanna give free win to ur teammate DoubleJ. 

 

Lf new host

Oh yea dude, call the host biased for not willing to break the rules. 

 

2 hours ago, Guerinf said:

I'd like to back the Cubones on that point as i kind of think the decision made is understandable but quite unfair.

Indeed, it's always easy for external people to find a way how matches could have been done and what could have been done to avoid the situation. When i see people saying that when doc was in surgery and forf another N-1 could have been put in charge i just wonder if people do the same for their team. The answer is obviously no. Sometimes shit happen and you didn't predict it. Hopefully, we are mature and smart enough to understand those problems and take adequate actions to solve them.

Here we have Ari who's a well known and appreciated player. We all know he wanted to play his match but this unfortunate event happened and he is punished for something he isn't responsible for. We can blame him for schedulling only on sunday, but we all know how schedduling works : you often try to be the most accomodative possible even if you need with your opponent to change your program a little. And when something happen, then you're fucked cause you've been a cool guy trying to arrange your opponent.

That's kind of what happened for me vs noad last season, even if it's not comparable at all since i just missed my waking up and wasn't victim of an earthquake. 

Ari isn't being punished though, that's why JJ lifted his suspension.

[gbwead]

9 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

I can tell you don't have a younger sibling, when my little brother is refusing to eat proper food I don't say he did a good job for taking a stand, he's acting like a child (prob because he is one). Now when a group of people refuse to continue with something they all agreed upon and understood because something didn't go their way, that is also childish.

For the record, I also have a little brother, but that is quite irrelevant. There is nothing childish about people standing up for themselves and refusing to accept what they consider an unfair ruling.

[DaftCoolio]

3 minutes ago, CCMayhem said:

 

Its not like it wasn't extenuating circumstances though, i imagine him huddled in a bathtub somewhere the ground is shaking glasses falling off shelves, and all this guy can think is "I gota get on for my PSL match" the power comes back on he races to his computer eager to get on and play his match and then he discovers it was forfeit, he probably fell to his knees and yelled at the universe for screwing him over.

 

But seriously, it was an earthquake tho let it be a cautionary tale reschedule the match and watch it never happen again. Probably a better course of action then having a bunch of his team members boycott their matches.

And let everyone know if something doesn't go your way just threaten to leave until it does? A week is more than enough time to schedule a match rather than leaving it till the 11th hour, a risk that should be considered when leaving a match that late is that there isn't another chance to reschedule. A rule we all knew about.

[LifeStyle]

Even if yang didn't get activity win and match ended in no contest, it's still 5-4. cubones ya lost get over it.

I try to schedule my matches asap but most people can only do weekends for some reason ("school", "work", etc, more like need time to scout yo ass and counter team) and then unexpected shit can happen.

Also, sorry for hearing about what happened to you @Arimanius, hope you and ur family are ok, cuz after all that's way more important than a pokemon game.

Edited October 17, 2016 by LifeStyle

[Kizhaz]

5 minutes ago, gbwead said:

For the record, I also have a little brother, but that is quite irrelevant. There is nothing childish about people standing up for themselves and refusing to accept what they consider an unfair ruling.

But it is childish, refusing to play because a decision went against them, a decision that was in their hands to prevent. If someone actually tried to contact a substitute and there was literally nothing more that could be done it would be a different story, but there was no effort made by the team 

[CCMayhem]

10 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

And let everyone know if something doesn't go your way just threaten to leave until it does? A week is more than enough time to schedule a match rather than leaving it till the 11th hour, a risk that should be considered when leaving a match that late is that there isn't another chance to reschedule. A rule we all knew about.

Imo, seems like a fair protest. I don't think it will set a bad precedent for the other teams given the nature of the forfeit. Yes, they were under prepared, but it was an earthquake man there's no way anyone could have predicted that, assuming your not like a seismologist. Who the fuck even sits down and prepares for the possibility of an earthquake interfering with their PSL match. This could have happened to anyone.

 

Just throw up a IRL natural disaster clause to the rules, and done.

Edited October 17, 2016 by CCMayhem

[NikhilR]

12 minutes ago, gbwead said:

For the record, I also have a little brother, but that is quite irrelevant. There is nothing childish about people standing up for themselves and refusing to accept what they consider an unfair ruling.

But how is it an unfair ruling when it is according to the rules? It's childish because people are threatening to leave if things don't go their way. It's childish because none of them want to accept any responsibility in the outcome of this situation which could've been prevented. We all know how important this match was and yet not one single Cuboned member was alive during the scheduled time of Ari's match to either support him or answer / respond to JJ on how to approach the situation. Now when it's too late they want to boycott. 

 

---------------------------------------

 

My sympathies are with Ari because this isn't his fault and he didn't deserve to be punished, hence the reason why JJ lifted the ban. The people at fault are the manager, captain or co-captain or anyone else who was unavailable to reach.

 

Ari, I hope you and your family are doing okay. I can't imagine what you've went through and no one in your position should ever have to worry about playing a pokemon match when you've just been hit by an earthquake.

Edited October 17, 2016 by NikhilR

[DaftCoolio]

2 minutes ago, CCMayhem said:

Imo, seems like a fair protest. I don't think it will set a bad precedent for the other teams given the nature of the forfeit. Yes, they were under prepared, but it was an earthquake man there's no way anyone could have predicted that, assuming your not like a seismologist.

No one could of specifically predicted an earthquake, but something coming up that makes you unable to play isn't absurd and there have probably been a couple times where players have agreed on a time but something has come up so they just rescheduled later in the week. In fact one of my players missed his scheduled time but was able to set a new one because he didn't leave it till the last minute. One should accept the risk of setting a late time of not being able to reschedule.

[CCMayhem]

1 minute ago, DaftCoolio said:

No one could of specifically predicted an earthquake, but something coming up that makes you unable to play isn't absurd and there have probably been a couple times where players have agreed on a time but something has come up so they just rescheduled later in the week. In fact one of my players missed his scheduled time but was able to set a new one because he didn't leave it till the last minute. One should accept the risk of setting a late time of not being able to reschedule.

Subjectivity at this point mate. He still got the short end of the stick in all of this,regardless of prior preparation. 

[KaynineXL]

Firstly, not playing because a decision didn't go your way is childish. I would understand if the decision was straight forward one way complete bullshit but this case is very controversal and both sides have reasoning.

 

Me personally, because of the unique circumstances, I would have allowed a rematch, but that doesn't mean I think JJs decision is absurd. If you look at it from his point of view, he has set rules and has done his best to not bend them because it does set a bad precedent. Next week we could have people give reasons that they got hit by a car, or they fell off a bridge(or ones more believable), how could JJ say no to those when he's already granted arim a rematch?

 

When arim told us what happened, the suspension was rightly removed, but at the end of the day the managers have tools such as substitutes and captains to switch their players so these events won't stop the match. Of course it's unfortunate of the time in which they set to play and the fact his subs aren't too active. There is more that could have been done to get the game done on both sides, but however you look at it, yang did show up.

 

The sad thing is, JJ is getting the brunt of it only because past hosts have not been strict enough on their ruling.

Edited October 17, 2016 by KaynineXL

[OrangeManiac]

There is a reason why the decisions in PSL are final when a week concludes. It's that there would be no blackmailing of host for dropping out unless some rule is reversed. That kind of behavior is disgraceful, especially if it's lead by the manager. Everyone who actually were for dropping out of PSL because of this ruling, well.. fucking shame on you. No need to see you in PSL anymore, kthnxbai.

 

Does it suck that such an unforeseen situation happened in Arimanius' home town? Absolutely. There's just lots of unfortunate things related to it. It happened in the very end of a week. I can imagine there was power outage too so Ari couldn't let his team/opponent/host know so last minute adjustments could have been made. What I've seen there has been outcry for more efficient punishment for no shows and overall effiency of PSL too. It results to making quick decisions in the end of the week when someone is a no-show, and JJ made absolutely the right one to instantly conclude the week with activity loss. Now, I honestly would found it reasonable to possibly discuss about the matter between both teams even though I stay behind the rule that when a decision is final - it is final. But the fact the way of communication from Cuboned side is to threaten to drop out is pathetic and for that I'd say good fucking riddance.

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by OrangeManiac

[ShadowGary]

I like how this happened to Gunthug in season 5 too. He got called biased since he gave Ninja's an activity win even though he stated at the start of the season everybody who failed to play his/her matches before the weeks end would lose due to lack of activity. This is just me towards those who call JJ biased even though it was a fair decision though it might not seem like it. I personally think Arimanius has a good reason for not playing his match, and I sympathize for what he had to go through, but scheduling a match at the end of the week is never a smart thing to do. I personally think Ari's week 4 suspension should be revoked for sure. I know the rules state that those who don't finish their match before the week ends get an auto-loss, but come on, PSL is all about getting matches done not about calling the host 'biased' cause of one decisive decision. Personally I think Arimanius should get a rematch, but if the host says otherwise his decision should be respected instead of people acting all childish and calling him biased. I was also thinking maybe let Orange or Gunt make the decision?

 

TL;DR: I hope Arimanius gets a rematch, but if not, the hosts decision should be respected.

Edited October 17, 2016 by ShadowGary

[Guerinf]

It's of course a biased decision as it's the host, so a person, who takes it. The question is how this decision can be the fairest possible, not if it's biased or not.

To me, the unpredictable caracteristic of what happened to Ari should be taken into account. The rule is edicted, but the judge (aka here the host) always have the flexibility to adapt the final decision. And as we're nor fucking robots or in an awful bureaucrashit, so we can adapt the rules we oursleves agreed on and agreed to follow.

[Arimanius]

I'm gonna be honest here, I personally at first didn't want to sign up for this PSL cause I knew the problems we would have with this JJ vs AURA bullshit, still I believed in JJ in what he could do this season and more important I believe in what I thought PSL was all about, PSL for me was competitiveness, battles, strategy, teamwork and action, I've always enjoyed (even spectate only) more PSL than any other tourney (Maybe not TT) because of that but I can't be part of an event that doesn't have any of those things I believed in, I don't blame forf or doc and I don't think no one should, they didn't have to put a sub, why? so he can lost to yang? why they had to put a sub if they have me? SOMEONE WHO ALWAYS PLAY THEIR MATCHES, they know me, both are from AURA and they know I wouldn't miss my battle, not for any stupid reason, they wanted to wait till last moment and they did, sadly for me things didn't get fixed till 4 hours later of the quake but still as soon as power came back I went instantly here to see if I could get my match played, not to get a pity activity win or any of that shit, but to get the opportunity TO PLAY even if that would translate in me losing (which I'm confident in my abilities to say it wouldn't happen unless horrible hax). I haven't called jj biased a single time, he stands for his decision and I respect that, I stand for mine, I just can't be part of something I don't believe in. I asked Doc if he really needed me to play cause I didn't want to play anymore, that if he needed me I would play with the same desire to win as always but I was being honest telling him how I felt about PSL, my teammates think this is unfair too and they don't want to play their matches, that's being part of a team cause I know that if it would have been a stupid reason they would be yelling at me, insulting me and I would be ok with that, but how in the world can a player be punished for getting hit by a quake 1 hour (I think) before the match? I have nothing to do with that decision of them, I speak for me and honestly if any of them would have gone through the exactly same circumstances I would have done the same too, cause that's called support. You can tell this is childish and any shit you want, but I wont be part of PSL anymore cause the reasons why I joined at first aren't there anymore and for me that's enough reason to not keep going.

 

PS: little bit of shittalk here just for the spirit, give him the "activity win" jj, at the end of the day, after the rape I gave him in TT, that's the only way he can get a win against me :P

[OrangeManiac]

I thought PSL was this one time in PokeMMO where we could look beyond LYLE vs. Aura.

 

Guess some things never change.

[Eggplant]

damn i was asleep for 12 hours

i thought i missed it all but it still goes on

here's my stance

 

There are just a handful of people that you see posting once and disappear, and it roughly says "are you gus pooped? Obviously give him the rematch. It's a fucking earthquake."

I've always respected gunt's style of activity calling which is kinda "nobody really gives a fuck, play when you can".

JJ, the reason why I was always one of the more-liked staff is because I didn't pull shit like this in officials. You're trying too hard to avoid having those mickey hands.

Mickey hands are a good thing. It's a game, we're here to have a good time. Rematching cause of an EQ is obviously the right thing to do.

I've never believed in the 'lyle bias conspiracy' or whatever. Still don't. I've seen staff try too hard to enforce rules.

 

really. Nobody gives a fuck about keeping this rule enforced over a natural disaster. Just let ari replay and maybe even get rekt. Wouldn't that be hilarious.

[Gunthug]

5 hours ago, RysPicz said:

Unfortunately nothing. Doc had a surgery, I was asleep. What could've been done here?

I dunno but during 5 seasons (6th now) I've been asking players to play their fucking matches. Ari showed intentions of playing, came online after earthquake hoping to play his match asap and... well, he can't play his match because host decided otherwise. At the end, ironically, the host who ensured that he will make sure that matches will get played in the 'hype' thread, makes the match impossible to play. Bias at it's best.

 

How can you say this is bias? If it was the other way around, Ari would have gotten the activity win, period. JJ made it very clear at the beginning of the season that there would be no extensions. Enforcing that rule is the very embodiment of non-bias.

 

If I was host, I would have allowed an extension, which would have been COMPLETELY biased since I like Ari and I don't wanna see him get an activity win against him for something out of his control. But JJ is the host, and I got a lot of criticism last season for biased, off the cuff decisions. So he took steps to rectify that, and now he's getting crucified for it. But I mean, come on. It's just one activity win, it's not the end of the world

 

I miss Orange as a host. This was prob the best season I ever played with him as a host

lol, when you try sucking the old host's uguu and he comes in later and puts you in your place.

 

6 hours ago, whilt said:

It's wrong to fault Arimanius for not scheduling earlier as a lot of you have suggested. That's hindsight bias. It was well within his rights to choose a best-fit schedule, regardless of how many options yang may have brought up. His intent to participate in his match is explicitly expressed insomuch as both parties agreed on a time, if not for an event that no one saw coming. In an event of this magnitude (pun not intended), it's insufficient to dismiss contentions simply because we ought to 'foresee the unforeseen.' In the same sense, I doubt that any one manager was clairvoyant enough to predict an earthquake when they subscribed to the 'status quo' with all its rules written in stone. You are downplaying the uniqueness of this case by leaving its judgment to mere technicality. Cases such as this are the very reason why we have safeguards such as the force majeure clause applied in our international laws. Really, how stubborn are we to reject what is right as expressed by law in its most grand narrative? 

 

This is a pro hac vice case. It demands a judgment just as sound.

Hey bud, this isn't fucking international law. It's an online pokemon league. Hate to burst your bubble, 1L, but in the real world things like this happen all the time. If one of my defendants misses a court date in my county, it doesn't matter whether a natural disaster caused it or they just forgot - the judge is going to issue a capias warrant, and theyre going to sit in jail until their next court date. That's the beauty of bright line rules - the judge doesn't have to show bias, and everyone knows the rules going in. Sure, a couple people will get the raw end of the deal, but it's necessary to ensure a fair and unbiased system. Now, in a court of law, the punishment for getting screwed over is loss of freedom. Here, it's one fucking activity win in week 3, that changes a possible tie to a loss. I think you're being dramatic

[CCMayhem]

7 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

 

Hey bud, this isn't fucking international law. It's an online pokemon league. Hate to burst your bubble, 1L, but in the real world things like this happen all the time. If one of my defendants misses a court date in my county, it doesn't matter whether a natural disaster caused it or they just forgot - the judge is going to issue a capias warrant, and theyre going to sit in jail until their next court date. That's the beauty of bright line rules - the judge doesn't have to show bias, and everyone knows the rules going in. Sure, a couple people will get the raw end of the deal, but it's necessary to ensure a fair and unbiased system. Now, in a court of law, the punishment for getting screwed over is loss of freedom. Here, it's one fucking activity win in week 3, that changes a possible tie to a loss. I think you're being dramatic

Translation : "Missing PSL because of an EQ, is like missing a court date so lets put his ass and jail and fuck him over for something that was mostly out of his control"

 

PSL is serious shit guys O:

[Eggplant]

i mean gunt is basically saying "i'm not a little kid so i'm just gonna deal with it and not gonna shit all over jj's decision"

but really it's also saying "i wouldn't have done it his way"

and i don't think most people would have cause it's a xela-level call

[Gunthug]

7 minutes ago, CCMayhem said:

Translation : "Missing PSL because of an EQ, is like missing a court date so lets put his ass and jail and fuck him over for something that was mostly out of his control"

 

PSL is serious shit guys O:

Lol I responded to a guy who compared PSL with a seldom used caveat of international law, no "psl is serious shit guys xDDDDDDDDDD" comment for that one? There's literally a group of people who are willing to withdraw from PSL over one activity decision that has a negligible impact on the standings, and others are comparing this to "passive defiance" and "standing up for injustice," but you feel the need to respond to my comment with "xD omg psl so srs! Someone pay attention to me!!!" Believe me, I'm not the one taking this shit too seriously.

[Sashaolin]

I don't want to argue about which is the right decision or not but I feel that the competitiveness of the competition is in danger.
Not only the fact that a duel played is more competitive than an activity win but mostly because if a team becomes frustrated and decides to stop, the competitiveness of the competition will clearly decrease.
The next opponents of the leaving team will be awarded a week win without even playing which is totally unfair with the teams that already played against them.
What I want to point here is that the current decision will not only affect the teams involved but also the whole other teams.

In my opinion, breaking the rules could be interesting if it avoids deteriorate the whole competition.

[CCMayhem]

3 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Lol I responded to a guy who compared PSL with a seldom used caveat of international law, no "psl is serious shit guys xDDDDDDDDDD" comment for that one? There's literally a group of people who are willing to withdraw from PSL over one activity decision that has a negligible impact on the standings, and others are comparing this to "passive defiance" and "standing up for injustice," but you feel the need to respond to my comment with "xD omg psl so srs! Someone pay attention to me!!!" Believe me, I'm not the one taking this shit too seriously.

Just good banter man, chill i thought it was a funny comparison. Its PSL no one has broken international law, or missed court dates and should be thrown in jail. At the end of the day its PokeMMO, I am pretty sure its apparent to everybody here that Ari, did not purposely or willfully not show up to his battle, nor was it due to gross negligence on his part. A Irl Calamity happened that prevented him from playing now on this one pretty unique circumstance why not just give him the rematch, quit getting bent out of shape over the rules and just go back to having a fun competition.