suigin Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Nobody is mentioning the fact that it's not even at full power yet, once Flame Orb becomes a thing it will be infinitely harder to switch into it. Link to comment
razimove Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, suigin said: Nobody is mentioning the fact that it's not even at full power yet, once Flame Orb becomes a thing it will be infinitely harder to switch into it. I do believe however that stuff like dusclops eviotite, might have a chance of holding him then aswell tho, don't quote me, can't do calcs as I'm still working, access to haze helps, problem is lack of sustain, only sustain would be rest or pain split, idk.Just a random thought, probably completely wrong but I'll run some calcs later anyway. Link to comment
suigin Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, redspawn said: I do believe however that stuff like dusclops eviotite, might have a chance of holding him then aswell tho, don't quote me, can't do calcs as I'm still working, access to haze helps, problem is lack of sustain, only sustain would be rest or pain split, idk.Just a random thought, probably completely wrong but I'll run some calcs later anyway. Dusclops is far too passive, it'd essentially just give stuff like Hydreigon a free switch. It's also pretty easy to wear down with hazards and doesn't have reliable recovery to stay at full all the time, something it desperately needs. +1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Payback (50 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 60-72 (40.8 - 48.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock Edited February 7, 2018 by suigin whoops level 100 calc Link to comment
razimove Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, suigin said: Dusclops is far too passive, it'd essentially just give stuff like Hydreigon a free switch. It's also pretty easy to wear down with hazards and doesn't have reliable recovery to stay at full all the time, something it desperately needs. +1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Payback (50 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 114-136 (40.1 - 47.8%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock rip dreams, no clue then honestly of a possible solution. Link to comment
RysPicz Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 5 hours ago, redspawn said: no clue then honestly of a possible solution. legendaries Ultrajesus and Robofiend 2 Link to comment
Maelstrom Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Wobuffet is the only thing that I have seem being able to hold a Conkeldurr, but that was a long stall battle. Link to comment
suigin Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, Maelstrom said: Wobuffet is the only thing that I have seem being able to hold a Conkeldurr, but that was a long stall battle. My biggest fear is that the moment Flame Orb becomes a thing Wobb will be downright mandatory in order to remove Conk and even then it could become a mindgame of whether it bulks up or attacks with Payback. Link to comment
Maelstrom Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Right now, I am thinking if Gallade can be an effective answer for Conkel. Link to comment
pachima Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I dont agree on the whole orb thing. Granted conk will be harder to check cause the power boost, but at the same time conk won´t have nearly as many safe switch ins, which is right now one of its assets with leftovers. Havsha 1 Link to comment
suigin Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, pachima said: I dont agree on the whole orb thing. Granted conk will be harder to check cause the power boost, but at the same time conk won´t have nearly as many safe switch ins, which is right now one of its assets with leftovers. I mean it won't be able to set up constantly on the face of opponents without much care like it does right now but at the same time it won't need to since it can turn anything that doesn't resist Drain Punch into a health Slurpee after a single boost. I could be completely wrong and setting up with Leftovers will remain the most popular choice, but the immediate power Flame Orb provides also makes it way way more threatening than before. Link to comment
pachima Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, suigin said: I mean it won't be able to set up constantly on the face of opponents without much care like it does right now but at the same time it won't need to since it can turn anything that doesn't resist Drain Punch into a health Slurpee after a single boost. I could be completely wrong and setting up with Leftovers will remain the most popular choice, but the immediate power Flame Orb provides also makes it way way more threatening than before. I cant disagree with that, since its true. The problem is that orb conkeldurr will have to be played differently than the way it is played now. Most of the time, conk just has some safe switches leftovers provides it with and it starts threateningly from there. All I am saying is that comparing both seems wrong, since one´s mentality when using one or another have to differ by a significant margin. Overall, I believe orb is better, but we all know how of a playstyle the majority of this community goes with, so I also believe its too early to predict something like this. Link to comment
Spaintakula Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Assault vest conkeldurr when though? DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 4:41 PM, Spaintakula said: Assault vest conkeldurr when though? You troll us Link to comment
codylramey Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Is it worth discussing wobbofet and other trapping mons until we get team preview? Link to comment
razimove Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 30 minutes ago, codylramey said: Is it worth discussing wobbofet and other trapping mons until we get team preview? it definitely is. Link to comment
Gunthug Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 55 minutes ago, codylramey said: Is it worth discussing wobbofet and other trapping mons until we get team preview? We have been, for over a month. It's not a very simple issue razimove 1 Link to comment
razimove Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 13 minutes ago, Gunthug said: We have been, for over a month. It's not a very simple issue any chance you guys could share, what are the points in favor of them being allowed to roam free in OU and against? Tritios 1 Link to comment
codylramey Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 There is actually a few things in this meta that could prolly be considered broken w/o team preview. Discussing and banning them all might be pointless. BUT i think trappers in particular are different than something like les say conkeldur bc of their uncompetitive nature. Link to comment
Gunthug Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 2 hours ago, redspawn said: any chance you guys could share, what are the points in favor of them being allowed to roam free in OU and against? Well this is just my own personal viewpoint, but I'll try to play devil's advocate. The number one argument for NOT banning them is simply usage - how can these pokemon be considered so broken they have to go when Duggy is on less than 10% of teams and Wobbu is on about 6%? In addition, some would argue that they're both exploitable and come with a lot of risk - if wobbu loses a 50/50 and, say, counters on a predicted physical move and eats a swords dance instead, it can have serious ramifications for your team. Duggy locking into something like CB EQ similarly allows something like DD mence or gyara to come in and wreak havoc. Another potential argument: these pokemon are not broken, their abilities are broken. This opens up a wormhole into discussing complex ban situations, or the flat ban of an ability like shadow tag and arena trap, which comes with a whole new set of issues. On the pro ban side (where I currently lean), you've got two pokemon who are pretty clearly uncompetitive at their very core. They restrict your opponent's autonomy so severely that often times not even great foresight or counter-play (as if this is even possible) can avoid the probable outcome - that duggy or wobbu is probably going to do its job most of the time without requiring a lot of risk for the user. All these and more have been tossed around and debated for a bit now, but we're still investigating subjects like "CAN we do a flat ability ban" and other logistical things. gbwead and razimove 2 Link to comment
Mitch730 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) I very rarely meet a dugtrio or wobb when i matchmaking that's true.. I'd say almost never, but man when it's a ranked or even more important a tournament match.. there they are immediatly ready to take me from behind and make my hole bigger than greece debt I see you have a OnePunch avatar so i ll put in this spoiler how it feels to play against those 2 pokermons Spoiler Edited March 10, 2018 by Mitch730 SPlDERMAN and DaftCoolio 2 Link to comment
Maelstrom Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 It's like Conkeldurr. You rarely see it on matchmaking, but they are everywhere on tours and rankeds. Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Mitch730 said: make my hole bigger than greece debt lmfao SPlDERMAN 1 Link to comment
Maelstrom Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 So... did you guys found any effective answer for conkel? We don't have wobb anymore btw. Link to comment
pachima Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Maelstrom said: So... did you guys found any effective answer for conkel? We don't have wobb anymore btw. Impish breloom. Maelstrom 1 Link to comment
Maelstrom Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, pachima said: Impish breloom. I suspected that was the reason you had that demon. Link to comment
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