Bugs & Calcs Errors

[gbwead]

If you can't figure out what happened in a duel and you think you might be facing a bug or a calc error, post your findings here so we can investigate together.


First question that was asked on this thread:
 

Spoiler

I just watched the latest OU tournament. In the finals, I saw a Timid Magnezone (SpAtk stat: 182) deal 87 Dmg with Volt Switch to a Togekiss (HP stat: 189 / SpDef stat: 136) after one Calm Mind. According to the pokemon showdown calculator, the possible damage rolls are: 72, 72, 74, 74, 74, 78, 78, 78, 78, 80, 80, 80, 84, 84, 84, 86. I'm don't really know the ins and outs of Pokemon battling calculations, so if someone could explain why that happened, I would really appreciate it.

 

252 SpA Magnezone Volt Switch vs. +1 228 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss: 72-86 (38 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

 

46% of 189 HP = 86.9 HP

 

Edited February 6 by gbwead

[CHUCKunso]

Spreads based on Lukes and mine input, so this is a legit calc. I have noticed "impossible" rolls before, didn't really bother reporting on them tho. I can 100% confirm they have been around for a while now.

[CaptnBaklava]

Nvm should've read it carefully. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by CaptnBaklava

[xSparkie]

Did they both link their mons to you @gbwead? 

Edited July 19, 2022 by xSparkie

[gbwead]

20 minutes ago, xSparkie said:

Did they both link their mons to you @gbwead? 

I saw the mons from Luke. I just asked Chuckunso, but he didn't need to link because of this:

In the case of the Togekiss:

• Every time Togekiss did Softboiled, it gained back either 49.8% or 49.7%. This means the total HP of Togekiss is an odd number because, if it was an even number, it would always gained back 50.0%. This means the possible HP stats for Togekiss are (161, 163, 165, 167, 169, 171, 173, 175, 177, 179, 181, 183, 185, 187, 189 or 191)
   
• Every time Togekiss gained back HP from Leftovers, it gained back 5.8% exactly. Here is what leftovers recovery looks like for every possible HP stat:
  • 10/161 = 6.21%
  • 10/163 = 6.13%
  • 10/165 = 6.06%
  • 10/167 = 5.99%
  • 10/169 = 5.92%
  • 10/171 = 5.85%
  • 10/173 = 5.78%
  • 10/175 = 5.71%
  • 11/177 = 6.21%
  • 11/179 = 6.23%
  • 11/181 = 6.08%
  • 11/183 = 6.01%
  • 11/185 = 5.95%
  • 11/187 = 5.88%
  • 11/189 = 5.82%
  • 11/191 = 5.76%

 

In the duel, Luke Dragonite hit Togekiss with Dragonclaw after 1 DD. It did 48.1% and then it did 45%. Since I saw Luke's Dragonite, I know 45% from Dragon Claw is impossible for 171 HP or 173 HP stat. Possible damage amounts: (79, 81, 81, 82, 84, 84, 85, 85, 87, 88, 88, 90, 91, 91, 93, 94). If Togekiss had 173 HP total and Dragon Claw did 45%, that would mean it dealt 78 Dmg which would also be impossible since the lowest possible roll is 79. This automatically means that the only HP stat possible is 189, so I have no reason to doubt Chuckunso since there is no other possibility anyways.

[CaptnBaklava]

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

I saw the mons from Luke. I just asked Chuckunso, but he didn't need to link because of this:

In the case of the Togekiss:

• Every time Togekiss did Softboiled, it gained back either 49.8% or 49.7%. This means the total HP of Togekiss is an odd number because, if it was an even number, it would always gained back 50.0%. This means the possible HP stats for Togekiss are (161, 163, 165, 167, 169, 171, 173, 175, 177, 179, 181, 183, 185, 187, 189 or 191)
   
• Every time Togekiss gained back HP from Leftovers, it gained back 5.8% exactly. Here is what leftovers recovery looks like for every possible HP stat:
  • 10/161 = 6.21%
  • 10/163 = 6.13%
  • 10/165 = 6.06%
  • 10/167 = 5.99%
  • 10/169 = 5.92%
  • 10/171 = 5.85%
  • 10/173 = 5.78%
  • 10/175 = 5.71%
  • 11/177 = 6.21%
  • 11/179 = 6.23%
  • 11/181 = 6.08%
  • 11/183 = 6.01%
  • 11/185 = 5.95%
  • 11/187 = 5.88%
  • 11/189 = 5.82%
  • 11/191 = 5.76%

 

In the duel, Luke Dragonite hit Togekiss with Dragonclaw after 1 DD. It did 48.1% and then it did 45%. Since I saw Luke's Dragonite, I know 45% from Dragon Claw is impossible for 171 HP or 173 HP stat. Possible damage amounts: (79, 81, 81, 82, 84, 84, 85, 85, 87, 88, 88, 90, 91, 91, 93, 94). If Togekiss had 173 HP total and Dragon Claw did 45%, that would mean it dealt 78 Dmg which would also be impossible since the lowest possible roll is 79. This automatically means that the only HP stat possible is 189, so I have no reason to doubt Chuckunso since there is no other possibility anyways.

If it wouldn't be Chucks Pokemon I would consider not perfect ivs. But afaik he only uses perfect mons. 

[CHUCKunso]

4 hours ago, xSparkie said:

Did they both link their mons to you @gbwead? 

17 hours ago, CHUCKunso said:

Spreads based on Lukes and mine input, so this is a legit calc. I have noticed "impossible" rolls before, didn't really bother reporting on them tho. I can 100% confirm they have been around for a while now.

I mean why would I lie here?

[Poufilou]

Had similar thing happen in Randoms. Had a Weavile standing against a Pikachu, both our last pokemons. I had a Life Orb and calced to see if I needed Icicle Crash or could Night Slash to OHKO. 

Decided to proceed and this happened

 

In Randoms all pokemons are EV trained 85 in all stats (except sp atkers) and neutral nature. This happened this month and I double-checked the levels in statistics and you can still see it's the correct ones. Icicle crash is 85 BP both in game and in showdown calc.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Poufilou

[gbwead]

8 minutes ago, Poufilou said:

Had similar thing happen in Randoms. Had a Weavile standing against a Pikachu, both our last pokemons. I had a Life Orb and calced to see if I needed Icicle Crash or could Night Slash to OHKO. 

Decided to proceed and this happened

 

In Randoms all pokemons are EV trained 85 in all stats (except sp atkers) and neutral nature. This happened this month and I double-checked the levels in statistics and you can still see it's the correct ones. Icicle crash is 85 BP both in game and in showdown calc.

I did the calc in gen 8 and this is what I got: Lvl 73 85 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. Lvl 82 85 HP / 85 Def Pikachu: 169-200 (88 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO.

f you calced in gen 4/5, this would mean Pikachu had 30 base stat in def instead of 40.

[Poufilou]

2 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I did the calc in gen 8 and this is what I got: Lvl 73 85 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. Lvl 82 85 HP / 85 Def Pikachu: 169-200 (88 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO.

f you calced in gen 4/5, this would mean Pikachu had 30 base stat in def instead of 40.

Dang, didn't know Base Stats would change depending gens. I've always been told to use B/W for calc, is it better to use gen8 now ?

[gbwead]

3 minutes ago, Poufilou said:

Dang, didn't know Base Stats would change depending gens. I've always been told to use B/W for calc, is it better to use gen8 now ?

The gen 8 calculator is generally more reliable for everything except steel and fairy typing, knock off, gems and outrage. Most of these things can be edited in the calculator tho.

Edited July 20, 2022 by gbwead

[caioxlive13]

Calculating:
((2x50)/5) + 2 = 22
(22 * 70 * 182/202)/50 + 2 = 29.75

Rounding down "Correctly":(Tartegs, weather, crit, burn and other are ignored because it's equal to (* 1), meaning that the result won't be changed.):
Lowest Roll:
29 * 0,85 * 1,5 * 2 = 24 * 1,5 * 2 = 36 * 2 = 72
Highest Roll
29 * 1 * 1,5 * 2 = 43 * 2 = 86 

Well, if they round step by step, highest rolll dmg is 86 at end. If round only at the end, 87 is final dmg.

If the theory of Incorrect rounding is applied:
Lowest Roll:
29,75 * 0,85 * 1,5 * 2 = 25,2875 * 1,5 * 2 = 37,93125 * 2 = 75.8625 = 75
Highest Roll
29,75 * 1 * 1,5 * 2 = 44,625 * 2 = 89,25

Rounding only Base dmg:
Lowest Roll:
29 * 0,85 * 1,5 * 2 = 24 * 1,5 * 2 = 36 * 2 = 72
Highest Roll
29 * 1 * 1,5 * 2 = 43,5 * 2 = 87 

So, we can conclude that the rounding happen on 2 times only, when first step(base dmg calcs) and calc end are applied. Some players will that that this doesn't impact and on regular pvp matches this doesn't really impact, +1/-1 dmg isn't the end of world. But pick those calcs and apply it on LC matches.

Let's pick a Adaptability Corpish Life Orb with aqua jet vs onix on Sun with eviolite.
Base dmg output is 3.
Lowest Roll without crit:
3 * 1 * 0,5 * 1 * 0,85 * 2 * 4 = 1,275 * 2 * 4 = 2,550 * 4 = 10,2 = 10
Highest Roll without crit:
3 * 1 * 0,5 * 1 * 1 * 2 * 4 = 1,5 * 2 * 4 = 3 * 4 = 12
Lowest Roll with crit:
3 * 1 * 0,5 * 1,5 * 0,85 * 2 * 4 = 1,9125 * 2 * 4 = 3,825 * 4 = 15,3 = 15
Highest Roll with crit:
3 * 1 * 0,5 * 1,5 * 1 * 2 * 4 = 2,25 * 2 * 4 = 4,5 * 4 = 18

Onix have 20 HP. So, a attack that should usually do (5% - 50%), even with critical hit, does (50% - 60%) without crit and (75% - 90%) with crit.

Edited October 29, 2022 by caioxlive13

[Poufilou]

 

Lvl 83 85 SpA Wailord Ice Beam vs. Lvl 79 85 HP / 85 SpD Wormadam: 102-120 (45.5 - 53.5%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO

 

??

 

Proof for levels : 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Poufilou

[gbwead]

I have never seen a damage roll so far off. That's 8 HP less than what is normally possible.

[caioxlive13]

24 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I have never seen a damage roll so far off. That's 8 HP less than what is normally possible.

let me calc this. I bring the answer editing the post. Will take a while.

[caioxlive13]

Lowest roll:
2x83/5 + 2 = 166/5 + 2 = 35,2
35,2 * 90 * 197/211 = 2.957
2.957/50 + 2 = 59

Modifiers:
59 * 1 * 1 * 1 * 0,85 * 1 * 2 * 1 * 1 = 100,3 = 100(44,6% dmg)

What the... The MMO calculator needs a emergency fix.

Edit: figured out the point that error is this time.

1st: Instead of pick a 0,85-1 number on modifier, he picked other number(0,84)
59 * 0,84 = 49,56
Then it gest rounded down, and doubled dmg due to type weakness
49 * 2 = 98.

98/224 = 0,4375 = 43,75/100 = 43,7%

Edited December 5, 2022 by caioxlive13

[Poufilou]

Too impossible to be true, so I checked on what could be wrong and it turns out the in-game statistics for Randoms does not display the correct level of its current month balancing. Since I did calcs after the fact (cos I thought the damage input was weird and incredibly unlucky - lowest roll possible and enemy surviving at like 1HP) I went for statistics but turns out it's useless tool for randoms as levels are wrong. 43.7% is lowest for level 82, I haven't been able to check Wailord itself but noticed a couple other pokemons levels were off so I just assume it's the case here aswell. @Rache Can you confirm ?

[Rache]

58 minutes ago, Poufilou said:

Too impossible to be true, so I checked on what could be wrong and it turns out the in-game statistics for Randoms does not display the correct level of its current month balancing. Since I did calcs after the fact (cos I thought the damage input was weird and incredibly unlucky - lowest roll possible and enemy surviving at like 1HP) I went for statistics but turns out it's useless tool for randoms as levels are wrong. 43.7% is lowest for level 82, I haven't been able to check Wailord itself but noticed a couple other pokemons levels were off so I just assume it's the case here aswell. @Rache Can you confirm ?

We'll look into it, thanks. Wailord's level is 82, it wasn't below the 48% cutoff last month to automatically gain a level and hasn't been adjusted manually either. It's currently displaying incorrectly in the UI.

 

This makes sense of the damage roll above too:

Lvl 82 85 SpA Wailord Ice Beam vs. Lvl 79 85 HP / 85 SpD Wormadam: 98-116 (43.7 - 51.7%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO

[Poufilou]

Can anyone solve this ? 

 

[gbwead]

LC has several dmg rolls bugs that have never been fixed. This looks like one of them. The conspiracy theorist in me like to believe LC is no longer an official tier because of these bugs xD

[caioxlive13]

37 minutes ago, gbwead said:

LC has several dmg rolls bugs that have never been fixed. This looks like one of them. The conspiracy theorist in me like to believe LC is no longer an official tier because of these bugs xD

Lemme calc this.
Base dmg: 18
 
18 * 0,85 * 1,5 * 0,5 = 11,475 --> 11

I GIVE UP, TRIED TO UNDERSTAND THIS GAME LOGIC BUT IS IMPOSSIBLE

Edited January 17 by caioxlive13

[Poufilou]

 

 

 

 

 

(0 IV HP and 31/29/0 IV SP DEF)

 

Not Naive change nothing

 

You NEVER get 47% (10 HP) dmg roll in any scenario. @Rachesecond time I show a random calc that is impossible. Can you confirm the damage formula in-game is wrong ?

Edited February 5 by Poufilou

[PKTxKharma]

Not the first time it does happend, I Ve seen this problem a lot 

Calc SD has a little diff with mmo

[caioxlive13]

3 hours ago, PKTxKharma said:

Not the first time it does happend, I Ve seen this problem a lot 

Calc SD has a little diff with mmo

A error on system is evident, but rounding error on dmg calc justify rolls above what it should happen, not rolls below.

[gbwead]

I renamed this thread and edited the opening post so everyone is welcomed to post their suspected bugs and errors.

Edited February 6 by gbwead