[NU Discussion] Electrode

[Azphiel]

 

In April 2022, Electrode was quick-banned to NUBL for the following reasons : 

 

Quick-banned to NUBL from NU;

Electrode: Banned for Uber Support characteristics. This has been discussed in the April 2022-Movement Discussion Thread : 

With its amazing 150 base speed, Electrode can Taunt anything and is pretty much guaranteed to succeed in setting up Reflect or Light Screen to allow friendly sweepers to set up. Sweepers were then easily able to set up, and due to the offensive nature of the NU Tier, it was assessed that the defensive tools would be powerless against screens.

 

The Tier Council is now reconsidering this decision as there were considerable changes in the NU Tier since then, most notably with the addition of Hidden Abilities.

 

At the time of the ban, the most frightening sweepers were mainly Feraligatr, Gallade and Drapion (these were mentionned in the thread). Feraligatr has been moved to UU since then, and we now have new tools to deal with these threats, such as Unaware Quagsire, Prankster Sableye, Intimidate Qwilfish and Unaware Clefable for special threats.

Furthermore, Azumarill is dropping this month and would for sure benefit from the screens, but it could be handled by most of those I just mentioned (Note that Qwilfish could use Haze and naturally outspeeds Adamant Azumarill, Mantine could use Haze with 100 EVs in speed to outspeed Adamant Azumarill, or the use of Pokemons such as Ferroseed could be explored).

Moreover, Electrode has a very limited movepool and is usually guaranteed to use 3 moves : Taunt, Light Screen and Reflect, the biggest question mark being whether the last move is Teleport/Volt Switch/Explosion. This makes Electrode very predictable.

There are also plenty of ways to pressure Electrode : the ideal one would be the use of Oblivious Piloswine (although it now has access to Thick Fat, Oblivious is still arguably viable.)

 

We believe these changes may warrant a suspect test to reintroduce Electrode that may benefit NU overall.

 

 

Feel free to discuss.

[SweeTforU]

As you mentioned, with all the new abilities that we now have (unaware and prankster mainly), it became quite hard for set up users to be effective in the current metagame, which means screens got a big nerf... So I think unbanning trode shouldn't be a problem right now and would even benefit the meta in some way.

[caioxlive13]

I think electrode will be the main mon on Hyper offense teams with screens. But... who could be the setup spammers that would benefit from him?

Those are the NU mons:
 
And this are the top-UT mons, and could have small niches on NU: Emboar ,Manectric ,Claydol ,Audino ,Alomomola ,Ferroseed ,Scyther ,Dodrio ,Sawk ,Swelllow ,Camerupt ,Aggron ,Garbodor ,Torterra ,Aerodactyl ,Archeops ,Galvantula ,Omastar, Klinklang, Stunfisk, Sandslash, Rotom-frost, Eelektross and Pikachu

I will comment about NU and Untiered mons because Untiered mons can be useful or have niches as a sweepers on HO Screeens teams, and potentially rise. I will not ignore that because this can "force" UT mons to rise to NU by usage, and become relevant enough.

Beetween NU mons, most part can't realistically benefit of screens. 
- Quagsire, Slowking, Lanturn, Steelix, Piloswine, Mantine, Miltank, Sableye, Altaria, Bronzor(On doubt about skuntank), and Druddigon are commonly played with Defensive sets.
- Ludicolo are 100% irrelevant because can't do anything without rain.
- Wobbufet is a trapper and can't really attack
- Charizard i don't see one until now but  doubt someone use it with setup. Same case to hitmons and Houndoom. 
- Blaziken , CInccino, Honckrow and both rotom forms prefer more choice items than setup moves.

On Untiered mons apply same logic:
- Aero and Archeops are suicide leads, and can't benefit of screens.
- Sandslash is more a anti-lead, don't benefit too much of screens
- Garbodor and Ferroseed only set hazard
- Audino, Alomomola and Stunfisk are played with defensive sets.
- Pikachu and Swellow don't use setup moves, prefer more their Orbs(Light for Pikachu, Flame for Swellow)
- Dodrio even with screens are fragile.

Those i can see with screens, beetween NU mons:
- Clefable with their Unaware Crit-me-not set
- Gallade with Bulk Up subs set
- Ninjask with Swords Dance
- Azumarill with Belly drum
- Samurott with Swords Dance + Aqua Jet 

Also on Untiered mons we have:
- Sawk with Bulk Up.
- Klinglang with their Shift Gear and generic set.
- Omastar with Shell Smash.
- Aggron with Rock Polish.
 

Edited December 31, 2022 by caioxlive13

[TohnR]

If anything Electrode is worse than Wobbuffet as a setup support, so I don't see a reason why it would be banned and not Wobbuffet. 
That was also the case in Under Used, the slight difference is that teambuilding Electrode teams that work might be easier than with Wobbu, so it was overall more popular.
Maybe also because people don't want to look like they're using cheap tactics ? who knows ...

More importantly what Sweet said about having both physical (Quags) and specially defensive (Clefable) Unawares in the tier kinda invalidates setup spam, and you also have more options with Prankster Encore & Infiltrator. There might be an issue to be looked into with some setup sweepers (I'm looking at Azumarill) tho but the problem definitely wouldn't be Electrode

Edited December 31, 2022 by TohnR

[xStarr]

no discussion needed, let it be in NU.

[caioxlive13]

7 hours ago, xStarr said:

no discussion needed, let it be in NU.

My opinion, based on list that i've maked is let drop. We have tools to deal with setupers, and none of those that i've mentioned will be broken with screens(if they would, people would of course use Meganium but they not use it even on Untiered.)

And, if for some reason Electrode remains banned from NU, when SV movepool update happens i will be one of the first players to ask Sableye's ban.

Edited January 1, 2023 by caioxlive13

[gbwead]

3 hours ago, xStarr said:

no discussion needed, let it be in NU.

Based on the quoting you for no apparent reason precedent, I would like to quote you @xStarr in order to wish @caioxlive13 an Happy New Year with Electrode in NU.

Edited January 1, 2023 by gbwead

[caioxlive13]

4 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Based on the quoting you for no apparent precedent, I would like to quote you @xStarr in order to wish @caioxlive13 an Happy New Year with Electrode in NU.

Agreeing with xStarr's argument and giving a justification for it before any random tries to negate our argument because it doesn't have a valid justification.
And seems you're against Electrode drop. Tell to us why.

Edited January 1, 2023 by caioxlive13

[gbwead]

2 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Agreeing with xStarr's argument and giving a justification for it before any random tries to negate our argument because it doesn't have a valid justification.
And seems you're against Electrode drop. Tell to us why.

Yes, very true. Based on what you just said, I would like to also wish an Happy New Year to my good friend @DoubleJ.

[DoubleJ]

42 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Yes, very true. Based on what you just said, I would like to also wish an Happy New Year to my good friend @DoubleJ.

That was very nice of you. Considering that I am now a Mbappe fan and thus a fan of France, I want to wish my good friend @gbwead a happy New Year as well.

[CaptnBaklava]

I wish. 

[Matthzinxl]

And also leave the ball in NU

[DoubleJ]

@Munya hey there mun mun, please close this thread, thank you = )