[OU Unofficial Discussion] Dragonite

[KeldeoCrowned]

Hello, I have an issue with dragonite and would like to share this with another people.
First of all, let me introduce myself:

Introduction

My nickname is KeldeoCrowned, I'm a player from smogon: ( https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/keldeocrowned.556298/ )
got some achievments as Portuguese Premier League III champion as sub of Medicham Kicks: , Portuguese Premier League IV champion as Dazzling Diancies captain: ( https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ptpl-iv-finals-won-by-dazzling-diancies.3711151/ )
Nominated as captain of Team Brazil in National Dex World Cup: ( https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ndwc-iii-administrative-decisions.3719750/post-9587120 )
Nominated as sub in Retro Cup of pokemon: ( https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/retro-cup-of-pokémon-2023-rosters.3722147/post-9675368 )
And recently, nominated as Smogon Tiering Contribuitor as people can see in my profile
Started to play PokeMMO OU 4 days ago, it's a cool metagame, played a bit less than 50 games until now and got decent results (I'll link my score below)
, however, there's a thing in this metagame that is so threatning for most of the teams and limits teambuilding so much, the name of this thing is Dragonite, here is why in my opnion, the council should do something with him:

Analysis

The main reason why I think this is because Dragonite looks like a nerfed ORAS/SM Mega Rayquaza in PokeMMO, let me explain:
The most popular Dragonite set in the mid-high OU ladder (650+) is the All Out Attacker (Draco Meteor, Superpower, Extreme Speed, Flamethrower) That looks like SM AG's M-Rayquaza most popular set: (Draco Meteor, Extreme Speed, Dragon Ascent and V-Create) And both are REALLY hard to stop defensively, due their versatility and how strong their sets are, being hard to revenge kill due Extreme Speed and in Dragonite case a good natural bulk (91/95/100) and Multiscale in non Life Orb sets
as I said before,it's so hard to stop Dragonite, and it's because the nonexistance of Fairies on PokeMMO, that does 
Draco Meteor a spooky move, there's no pokémon on current meta that switches into Dragonite safely, bulky steel types as Scizor, Skarmory, Metagross and Ferrothorn fear Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Chansey, Blissey, Tyranitar and Porygon 2 fear Superpower
Draco Meteor nukes most of the metagame, even bulkier mons as Amoonguss, Defensive Gliscor and AV Mienshao dislikes 
getting hitted by it, Extreme Speed is a big threat in late games versus offensive archetypes, does high damage vs 
possible revenge killers as Starmie and Weavile, The most next of a defensive check are Bulky Water types + Ice Beam as
Milotic, Gastrodon and Swampert, that aren't solid switches, because need to be extremely healthy to take 2 hits and it's pretty hard in Swampert's case due his lack of recovery, Honorable Mention to SpD Heatproof Bronzong, in cases where Dragonite doesn't have ground coverage and Levitate Bronzong where the Dragonite lack fire coverage
AOA Dragonite isn't his only set, DD Offensive Nite (Dragon Dance, Extreme Speed, Dragon Claw, Fire Punch) Is another popular set, isn't a wallbreaker as AOA, but it's even harder to revenge kill and his variations are more common, physical
Dragonite can surprise his possible checks with Superpower/Earthquakes breaking player gameplan, there are some variations of Nature and EVSpread of Dragon Dance Dragonite, like Bulky Nite with max HP and roost, and even mixed DD Dragonite, His versatility is not limited to sets and evspread, items as Dragon Gem, Lum Berry, Life Orb, Choice Band, Yache Berry, Leftovers, Rocky Helmet, Expert Belt and White Herb are all viable items that work with different sets, Lum Berry is the main item of physical DD Nite, helps Dragonite to handle with Will'o'Wisp users as Rotom-Wash, Cofagrigus and Weezing that are common physical nite checks, Yache Berry helps it to surprise his revenge killers as Mamoswine, Weavile and Starmie, giving him the oportunity to OHKO they back 
Analysis Conclusion
 The main point of this text is: Dragonite's insane versatility adds a big surprise factor in the game, even knowing what set he is running, it's hard to deal unless if you have a dedicated healthy check as Gastrodon or Bronzong, the most common form to stop AOA Dragonite defensively in Balance/Bulky Offense is predicting his next 
move and switching to your resisting, letting he die to residual damage of Life Orb, this adds so many 50/50s to the game that isn't a cool thing to a competitive game, some of that cases happenned on smogon before, some example of them are Volcarona and Magearna in SV OU, (Magearna in SS and SV), that got banned by their versatility and lack of consistent checks
Obviously,MMO Dragonite isn't strong as them, but is strong enough to centralize PokeMMO metagame, is like a dragon in a world of lizards

Calcs

Spoiler

AOA Dragonite (Mild, Draco Meteor, Flamethrower, Extreme Speed, Superpower, 252 Spe 252 SpA)
252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 177-211 (102.9 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 133-159 (60.1 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Life Orb Dragonite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 265-315 (73.2 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 244 SpD Gliscor: 126-149 (69.6 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (This Gliscor EVSpread is slower than dragonite, so, he dies to another Draco Meteor 100% of the times if Poison Heal isn't activated)

252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Metagross: 120-143 (64.1 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 94-110 (59.8 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Here, even dropping the SpA, Superpower does more than 50%, so Dragonite kills it with Draco Meteor+Superpower)

252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 133-156 (78.2 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 103-122 (49.7 - 58.9%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Same case as Rotom, however , Swampert is a bit stronger, so, 1 Layer of spikes Support gives a better chance to kill it)
0 Atk Life Orb Dragonite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert: 82-97 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 199-235 (107.5 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 152 SpD Mandibuzz: 121-142 (56 - 65.7%) -- (Dragonite here depends of stealth rock support to kills mandibuzz) 

DDDragonite (Lum Berry) (Dragon Dance Dragon Claw Fire Punch Extreme Speed)

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 108-128 (74.4 - 88.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after rocks

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 276-326 (149.1 - 176.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Rotom-Wash: 81-96 (51.5 - 61.1%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 132-156 (97.7 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 103-123 (49.7 - 59.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

DDDragonite 2 (Lum Berry) (Dragon Dance Dragon Rush Fire Punch Extreme Speed)

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Cofagrigus: 84-100 (50.9 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 165-195 (98.8 - 116.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 129-153 (62.3 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

^ All calcs above were made in Level 50

Credits

Writen by @KeldeoCrowned
Special thanks to @Volpi For his support

Do you have a different opinion? Let's discuss a bit, let a message here 

[gbwead]

Have you considered answers like Bold Umbreon, Bold P2 or Careful Hippowdon? The set you are describing existed prior to multiscale and the mons I listed were the typical answers.

[KeldeoCrowned]

14 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Have you considered answers like Bold Umbreon, Bold P2 or Careful Hippowdon? The set you are describing existed prior to multiscale and the mons I listed were the typical answers.

252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Umbreon: 107-126 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Life Orb Dragonite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 101-122 (50 - 60.3%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(it dies if switch into)
yea, as i said before, there are some common checks as Gastrodon, but they need to be extremely healthy to handle with nite, a minimum of cheap damage
do they lose in 1v1 252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 118-140 (54.8 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Life Orb Dragonite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 66-78 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery 
P2 Loses if Stealth Rock is up 252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 94-110 (49.2 - 57.5%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Life Orb Dragonite Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 78-94 (40.8 - 49.2%), Porygon is a decent check if rocks aren't up, tracing multiscale is cool
 

[DoubleJ]

Hey @KeldeoCrowned unfortunately this post resembles an official Tier Council thread, so I might recommend changing the title to avoid having it closed. 

 

Mixed Dragonite is incredible and really has very few counters. It takes good Hazard play and double switches to really take advantage, but that's hard to do. Consider things that resist Espeed and are faster, such as Icy Wind Gengar or Scarf Metagross. A solid Lure is great too. 

[KeldeoCrowned]

2 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Hey @KeldeoCrowned unfortunately this post resembles an official Tier Council thread, so I might recommend changing the title to avoid having it closed. 

 

Mixed Dragonite is incredible and really has very few counters. It takes good Hazard play and double switches to really take advantage, but that's hard to do. Consider things that resist Espeed and are faster, such as Icy Wind Gengar or Scarf Metagross. A solid Lure is great too. 

My main point here isn't how hard is to revenge kill AOA Dragonite, it isn't too hard (Not as DDDnite) But lack of switches
252+ SpA Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 127-151 (94 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO 
252 SpA Gengar Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 64-76 (38.5 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Multiscale)
252+ SpA Dragonite Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 104-124 (67 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 92-110 (55.4 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Multiscale)
These things are just ok revenge killers , there are some better options for this, as Starmie and Mamoswine
My point is the unpredictability of his sets and how threatning he can be, to be honest, i don't think that Dragonite should be
banned or something like this, a moveset restriction how did they do to Garchomp/Hydreigon would be nice in my opnion
 

[pachima]

Dragonite is the one Pokemon in the game that has virtually no counters, and makes me wonder why some other stuff were banned for that same reason. 

But I digress. First, more importantly than whether a Pokemon has or has not counters/checks or whatever bland word people in this game (Not you, Keldeo) like to use without context, we need to evaluate how consistent that Pokémon sees itself in such position:

1- Dragonite has a mediocre speed and severe weakness to rocks. (Speed can be mitigated with a Dragon Dance set, but that would lose all wallbreaking capabilitites).

2- While Draagonite has a few key resistances and an amazing defensive ability, which could allow it to come in safely into the field, in practice, it doesn't. First, because, as stated above, rocks are very very common and render the ability useless most of the time. Second because Dragonite cannot come safely against any of the top 10 Pokémon without either losing or risking a common coverage move that takes it down. In other words, Dragonite cannot shift momentum offensively against the most common Pokemon, thus minimizing the potential effect of having no counters by itself. In sum, you can say Dragonite is most of the time unable to see itself in a position where having no counters is relevant enough.

 

Because of these 2 things, I don't think Dragonite needs any decision or any complex ban. It is indeed a very powerful wallbreaker (Actually it might be the best one), but its a Pokemon within a tier that has enough tools to deal with it even before it touches the field. It is one of those Pokemon you should be pressuring away before it can be sent into the field.

 

As for your last point. "Obviously,MMO Dragonite isn't strong as them, but is strong enough to centralize PokeMMO metagame, is like a dragon in a world of lizards" :  It could be, but it isn't. While Dragonite is a very common Pokemon, its most used nature is Adamant (68.45%), and worse than that, Life orb only sees 12.86% usage. You may argue people are using it wrong, and I agree, but that's an entire different conversation altogether. The point is that a wallbreaking Dragonite isn't common enough to centralize the metagame. Maybe it could be if people realized how powerful it is and used more, but right now it isn't. 

 

Nevertheless, good to see new people joining this game competitively. That's a good winrate, so keep up the good job 😉

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by pachima

[caioxlive13]

5 hours ago, pachima said:

its most used nature is Adamant (68.45%), and worse than that, Life orb only sees 12.86% usage.

They use adamant but the best nature is 100% Jolly. Sure, you lose 10% of dmg. However, you win tiespeeds against 80 base speed, such as previously non-scarfed gallades(Now they got a ban for no reason), and in a common scenario where both had a Nite on field for N reasons(U-turn that killed opposing mon, your lead fainted itself but this killed the opponent mon too), if you are jolly you attack first and you're going for winning the 1v1. 

I'm a Nite user and the most hardest task is manage to enter with it. I need to worry about status, hazards, rocky helmet chip, multi-hit attacks, weather because rain kingdra is impossible to a nite pass, and sandstorm broke my multiscale, some mons like conk can kill it even with Multiscale active(On this case with Ice Punch and guts active), i also need to worry about scarfs. If i manage to setup twice i win, but i rarely get able to do so, because once multiscale is broken, one attack and i'm busted. Maximum i do most of the time is lose my nite but take some mon down with it.

In resume, Dragonite IMO is not broken for OU, in fact he is broken only for the non-official 1v1 metagaming, that he is banned already.
 

16 hours ago, KeldeoCrowned said:

Hello, I have an issue with dragonite and would like to share this with another people.
First of all, let me introduce myself:

Introduction

My nickname is KeldeoCrowned, I'm a player from smogon: ( https://www.smogon.com/forums/members/keldeocrowned.556298/ )
got some achievments as Portuguese Premier League III champion as sub of Medicham Kicks: , Portuguese Premier League IV champion as Dazzling Diancies captain: ( https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ptpl-iv-finals-won-by-dazzling-diancies.3711151/ )
Nominated as captain of Team Brazil in National Dex World Cup: ( https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ndwc-iii-administrative-decisions.3719750/post-9587120 )
Nominated as sub in Retro Cup of pokemon: ( https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/retro-cup-of-pokémon-2023-rosters.3722147/post-9675368 )
And recently, nominated as Smogon Tiering Contribuitor as people can see in my profile
Started to play PokeMMO OU 4 days ago, it's a cool metagame, played a bit less than 50 games until now and got decent results (I'll link my score below)
 

Also, welcome to the game. If you wanna compete in a tournament, world cup start soon, Captain Registration start on following week. Brazil compete on tour but... Last smogon player they bring to the team(aka LpZ IV) gets benched almost all tour and lost the only match that played. You can play for Rest of Latam instead.

Edited July 15, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Huargensy]

Hi keldeo

[KeldeoCrowned]

6 hours ago, pachima said:

Dragonite is the one Pokemon in the game that has virtually no counters, and makes me wonder why some other stuff were banned for that same reason. 

But I digress. First, more importantly than whether a Pokemon has or has not counters/checks or whatever bland word people in this game (Not you, Keldeo) like to use without context, we need to evaluate how consistent that Pokémon sees itself in such position:

1- Dragonite has a mediocre speed and severe weakness to rocks. (Speed can be mitigated with a Dragon Dance set, but that would lose all wallbreaking capabilitites).

2- While Draagonite has a few key resistances and an amazing defensive ability, which could allow it to come in safely into the field, in practice, it doesn't. First, because, as stated above, rocks are very very common and render the ability useless most of the time. Second because Dragonite cannot come safely against any of the top 10 Pokémon without either losing or risking a common coverage move that takes it down. In other words, Dragonite cannot shift momentum offensively against the most common Pokemon, thus minimizing the potential effect of having no counters by itself. In sum, you can say Dragonite is most of the time unable to see itself in a position where having no counters is relevant enough.

 

Because of these 2 things, I don't think Dragonite needs any decision or any complex ban. It is indeed a very powerful wallbreaker (Actually it might be the best one), but its a Pokemon within a tier that has enough tools to deal with it even before it touches the field. It is one of those Pokemon you should be pressuring away before it can be sent into the field.

 

As for your last point. "Obviously,MMO Dragonite isn't strong as them, but is strong enough to centralize PokeMMO metagame, is like a dragon in a world of lizards" :  It could be, but it isn't. While Dragonite is a very common Pokemon, its most used nature is Adamant (68.45%), and worse than that, Life orb only sees 12.86% usage. You may argue people are using it wrong, and I agree, but that's an entire different conversation altogether. The point is that a wallbreaking Dragonite isn't common enough to centralize the metagame. Maybe it could be if people realized how powerful it is and used more, but right now it isn't. 

 

Nevertheless, good to see new people joining this game competitively. That's a good winrate, so keep up the good job 😉

 

Hello, yea, maybe you're right after all, my issue as I said were the 50/50s if it gets in the field with the support of teleport or slow pivot in a good position, however, it's BW after all, even with the fairies non existance 

rocks are a bigger problem than in modern metas, I said that the most common set is AOA because all #100 battles I saw, people were using this or stall , so in my mind I thought that this was the most popular set

Even don't getting momentum, AOA DGem nite is creepier to Balance/BO and obviously, rain than vs offensive teams 

 

Thank you for your answer, sorry my mediocre english, as you probably know, I'm Brazilian, and all I learned was playing games 

15 minutes ago, Huargensy said:

Hello brother alex

 

[pachima]

3 minutes ago, KeldeoCrowned said:

Hello, yea, maybe you're right after all, my issue as I said were the 50/50s if it gets in the field with the support of teleport or slow pivot in a good position, however, it's BW after all, even with the fairies non existance 

rocks are a bigger problem than in modern metas, I said that the most common set is AOA because all #100 battles I saw, people were using this or stall , so in my mind I thought that this was the most popular set

Even don't getting momentum, AOA DGem nite is creepier to Balance/BO and obviously, rain than vs offensive teams 

 

Thank you for your answer, sorry my mediocre english, as you probably know, I'm Brazilian, and all I learned was playing games 

 

Your english is perfectly fine. 

Also I agree. Rocks are a bigger factor here when compared to more modern metas. 

When it comes to finding out which sets are more or less common, you can always check the statistics tab under the PVP menu. It shows you the most common abilities-items-natures and partners for any given Pokemon. 

 

But yeah, wallbreaker Dragonite is really really powerful if it is given a free turn. So powerful that I find it is usually a good idea to just manipulate the field in order to prevent it from coming in multiple times. 

 

Enjoy the game my man!

[KeldeoCrowned]

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

They use adamant but the best nature is 100% Jolly. Sure, you lose 10% of dmg. However, you win tiespeeds against 80 base speed, such as previously non-scarfed gallades(Now they got a ban for no reason), and in a common scenario where both had a Nite on field for N reasons(U-turn that killed opposing mon, your lead fainted itself but this killed the opponent mon too), if you are jolly you attack first and you're going for winning the 1v1. 

I'm a Nite user and the most hardest task is manage to enter with it. I need to worry about status, hazards, rocky helmet chip, multi-hit attacks, weather because rain kingdra is impossible to a nite pass, and sandstorm broke my multiscale, some mons like conk can kill it even with Multiscale active(On this case with Ice Punch and guts active), i also need to worry about scarfs. If i manage to setup twice i win, but i rarely get able to do so, because once multiscale is broken, one attack and i'm busted. Maximum i do most of the time is lose my nite but take some mon down with it.

In resume, Dragonite IMO is not broken for OU, in fact he is broken only for the non-official 1v1 metagaming, that he is banned already.
 

Also, welcome to the game. If you wanna compete in a tournament, world cup start soon, Captain Registration start on following week. Brazil compete on tour but... Last smogon player they bring to the team(aka LpZ IV) gets benched almost all tour and lost the only match that played. You can play for Rest of Latam instead.

Yo, thanks for your answer, btw, in my opinion, Jolly nite is better vs offense in general, if you run lures to his softchecks as something to lure tyranitar / metagross / rotom-w (common mons in offense) and weaken them, dragonite just need to get momentum to dd, 

Oh, thank you, I know lpz IV (he is playing RCoP as titular in ADV OU and got a great record) he is great, probably he was in the bench because lack of time or something like this (just my opinion,I don't know how much he played MMO metagame) 

[caioxlive13]

34 minutes ago, KeldeoCrowned said:

Yo, thanks for your answer, btw, in my opinion, Jolly nite is better vs offense in general, if you run lures to his softchecks as something to lure tyranitar / metagross / rotom-w (common mons in offense) and weaken them, dragonite just need to get momentum to dd, 

Metagross here is not something i'm finding too much on offense, usually when i see it, it are a Lead(explain a lot, because Excadrill that now has mold breaker and Garchomp, are more popular options.), so when nite enter is most likely to it be dead. Also, nite ends great because the metagaming follow gen changes, and since the Gen 9 pp nerf took place, defensive teams taked a huge hit on their viability. Stall is very difficult to play, balanced or it has some regen or is automatically bad compared to others, on this scenario offensive teams dominate metagaming. Many of their defensive threats have vanished, only regen ones(When i say regens, i'm counting mons with Regenerator and Poison Heal ability) and ones that doesn't use recovery affected by change, like Wish and Pain Split, stayed on meta. (Also i don't know if this makes it more broken but on MMO we had Gems avaliable without any nerf(Using gen 5 mechanics), and on BW metagaming iirc, gems are banned, so it can be used on some offensive set? Idk.)

 

 

34 minutes ago, KeldeoCrowned said:

Oh, thank you, I know lpz IV (he is playing RCoP as titular in ADV OU and got a great record) he is great, probably he was in the bench because lack of time or something like this (just my opinion,I don't know how much he played MMO metagame) 

Maybe.. Well, if wanna play on world cup, you can go on unofficial section and go to World Cup main thread(Chill, it's pinned on first page.) and enter on World Cup discord. If earned interess on playing for latam, my nickname on discord is "Miles 'Tails' Prower", you can search for "SpartaFS" too and talk with him.

Edited July 15, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Quinn010]

2 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

They use adamant but the best nature is 100% Jolly. Sure, you lose 10% of dmg. However, you win tiespeeds against 80 base speed, such as previously non-scarfed gallades(Now they got a ban for no reason), and in a common scenario where both had a Nite on field for N reasons(U-turn that killed opposing mon, your lead fainted itself but this killed the opponent mon too), if you are jolly you attack first and you're going for winning the 1v1. 

I'm a Nite user and the most hardest task is manage to enter with it. I need to worry about status, hazards, rocky helmet chip, multi-hit attacks, weather because rain kingdra is impossible to a nite pass, and sandstorm broke my multiscale, some mons like conk can kill it even with Multiscale active(On this case with Ice Punch and guts active), i also need to worry about scarfs. If i manage to setup twice i win, but i rarely get able to do so, because once multiscale is broken, one attack and i'm busted. Maximum i do most of the time is lose my nite but take some mon down with it.

In resume, Dragonite IMO is not broken for OU, in fact he is broken only for the non-official 1v1 metagaming, that he is banned already.
 

Also, welcome to the game. If you wanna compete in a tournament, world cup start soon, Captain Registration start on following week. Brazil compete on tour but... Last smogon player they bring to the team(aka LpZ IV) gets benched almost all tour and lost the only match that played. You can play for Rest of Latam instead.

deadass true ldffddfggdfgdf lpz should stick to bwpu 

[Munya]

Unfortunately after discussing and thinking about it some, we cannot keep this thread.  If a pokemon is to be discussed at least within the framework of the existing tiers it needs to be done so within the appropriate tier thread, here for this pokemon and if deemed a problem, an official thread specifically for a pokemon will be opened.  Unless you are seeking assistance in which case I would direct you to the competitive assistance section, located here