[NU Discussion] Medicham

[DoubleJ]

  

 

What is this?

 

This is a discussion thread for the community to share their opinion of Medicham's presence in the PokeMMO NeverUsed tier. Comments and opinions will be reviewed by the Tier Council as they assess whether they should proceed with a standard ban, or even a quick ban, to remove Medicham.

 

What to know?

 

Medicham is really, really strong and NeverUsed has very few walls that can reliably check it. It's unique typing is both an asset offensively (Psychic+Fighting physical offense is incredible) and defensively (weaknesses to only Ghost and Flying). It succeeds most effectively as a wallbreaker, but can also sweep with Bulk Up or Choice Scarf if the conditions are right. The absence of a Dark/Ghost-type in NU is also a very real problem, meaning the entire tier not named Slowbro/Slowking is susceptible to one (or both) of its two STABs. It can cover the entire meta with its access to the elemental punches and it is only really held back by its frailty and minimal speed. And as you can see in the calcs below, with simple prediction it can easily 2HKO every wall in NU with the help of Stealth Rocks.

 

Noteworthy sets?

 

4-Attack Wall Breaker (Life Orb)

- Close Combat/High Jump Kick

- Zen Headbutt/Psycho Cut

- Ice Punch

- Thunderpunch/Bullet Punch

 

TrickScarf (Choice Scarf)

- Close Combat/High Jump Kick

- Zen Headbutt/Psycho Cut

- Ice Punch

- Trick

 

Bulk Up Sweeper (Leftovers)

- Bulk Up

- Drain Punch

- Zen Headbutt/Psycho Cut/Ice Punch

- Bullet Punch

 

Noteworthy calcs?

 

Spoiler

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 91-109 (45 - 53.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 130-156 (75.5 - 90.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Gligar Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham: 68-84 (50.3 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom: 136-161 (86.6 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

8 SpA Rotom Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham: 49-58 (36.2 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 133-156 (65.8 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham: 63-75 (46.6 - 55.5%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO

 

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 109-133 (69.4 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 82-97 (52.2 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 87-105 (53 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 117-140 (68 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 133-159 (73 - 87.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Eviolite Golbat: 174-211 (95.6 - 115.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 94-112 (46.5 - 55.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 74-87 (43 - 50.5%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

Please discuss.

[RysPicz]

SweeTForU likes it

[Onraider]

Medi prolly doesnt even need to run jolly on life orb sets cos the speedtier doesnt matter as much with chicken and venusaur leaving so ada prolly should be considered more in those calcs

[Shadow]

5 minutes ago, Onraider said:

Medi prolly doesnt even need to run jolly on life orb sets cos the speedtier doesnt matter as much with chicken and venusaur leaving so ada prolly should be considered more in those calcs

It has more value as a wallbreaker than speedcontrol w/scarf or jolly imo

[DoubleJ]

Adamant, Jolly.... Quiet or Naive... it doesn't matter... is Medicham broken?!

[Mnemosyne]

I think the calcs that you have shown already say enough right?

[AwaXGoku]

So it's the first time medicham dropping, on paper it looks strong and it might be broken but i think it deserves at least a try since we already got times when we tought something was broken and finally it was fine.
Medicham can be revenge killed easily and his priority move arent that great and you lose coverage to get priority.
Medicham can go throught defensive core but it need to press the right move at the right time and with a life orb medicham can weak himself really fast.

With this suspect test we will be able to see if it's broken like everyone is saying and in this case we will have the opportunity to vote for a ban or a quick ban but i think banning it without even testing it is , in my opinion, a mistake.

[NiceRNGbro]

Please test it.

[DoubleJ]

A Quick Ban vote has been initiated. As a reminder, there needs to be a unanimous vote to quick ban a Pokemon per TC Policy. If there is not a unanimous vote, then this Pokemon will be added to the tier and we will reassess for a standard ban which requires at least 1 week evaluation and a 2/3 majority vote to pass.

[TohnR]

New policy of opening threads and warning of what's going on is great. Thank you JJ

[DoubleJ]

5 minutes ago, TohnR said:

New policy of opening threads and warning of what's going on is great. Thank you JJ

It's an old policy, we are just historically bad at staying organized as community volunteers. I'll try to keep up with policy requirements when these big changes hit. 

[DoubleJ]

The quick ban vote for Medicham has failed, as there was not a unanimous decision to ban it. Medicham will be introduced to NU with the upcoming tier changes and will be watched closely by the TC. We will announce when a vote opens for a standard ban and the results of that when finalized. 

[Imperial]

It's still early days but already within the first few days, Medicham has become the highest used mon in NU (the new Blaziken) with over 60% win rate (this was significantly higher before). From what I've seen, the most dangerous set is the Life Orb one with Close Combat/Drain Punch, Psycho Cut, Thunder Punch and Ice Punch. It's not only extremely difficult to predict the moveset it's going to use, but also whether it's running Life Orb or Choice Scarf.

 

I saw someone say that with Life Orb you're vulnerable to continuous recoil damage + additional chip from Rocky Helmet, but both players are forced to overpredict like a game of chess to ensure it's correct. Not only that but Medicham can comfortably regain that damage back from Drain Punch. There's also the Bulk Up set which I've personally not seen much, but can also be a dangerous sleeper.

 

Of course we should encourage creativity to adapt to changes, but I've seen players running Wobbuffet and Dusknoir, even fully defensive Mismagius, stuff that would barely be viable in the general meta.

 

Gallade was a similar wallbreaker with great offensive pressure, but it had to use Swords Dance to utilise its full potential against stall teams, whereas Medicham already has a great ability with Huge Power.

 

I feel that Medicham forces you to restrict teambuilding heavily, especially when you also have to consider Blastoise (another Pokemon I've seen cleaning games but that's another issue) and potentially Milotic. 

 

I'll spectate more ladder and tournament games especially the shiny officials where more experienced players play to make a final judgement, but as it stands there's no doubt that Medicham is too strong for NU and should never have dropped down in the first place (we can blame the weather meta in UU for that), and therefore I think Medicham should be quickbanned.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Imperial

[Mnemosyne]

Medicham needs to go

[Onraider]

What's the current status of TC about medi, has been 10 days into the month with about 3-4 in game tours having taken place so far

[Axelgor]

The earliest time the TC can make a decision on Medicham is after the 14th of October, hence we will wait till after the next NU official 

[Axelgor]

After careful consideration, we have decided to ban Medicham to BL2 under the offensive characteristic. @Munya You may now close this thread.