Public Statement (Important)

[Desu]

8 minutes ago, TheKrimsonKang said:

I'm sorry but this is absolutely absurd lol, you admit your software is scanning people phones without permission, picking up apps that have nothing to do with pokemmo and then banning them for it, if I want to run and ad blocker or auto clicker for another game that allows it, that's my right and to suggest for players to remove apps that have nothing to do with the game as a solution is disturbing. YOUR SOFTWARE IS BROKEN, YOU HAVE ADMITTED IT SO FIX IT INSTEAD OF BLAMING PLAYERS OR EXPECTING THEM TO BEND OVER BACKWARDS AND REMOVE UNRELATED OR LEGAL APPLICATIONS THAT THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO USE. 

Applications which intentionally send automated click events to PokeMMO are not compatible with PokeMMO. Applications which are coded incorrectly and accidentally send automated click events to PokeMMO are also not compatible with PokeMMO.

 

You may chose to disable these applications while you play PokeMMO or simply not play PokeMMO.

[TheKrimsonKang]

Which one of those do ad blockers do? Neither..... 

[Pokedex]

3 minutes ago, TheKrimsonKang said:

Which one of those do ad blockers do? Neither..... 

Careful homie, that's Desu

[TheKrimsonKang]

21 minutes ago, Quakkz said:

no one is forcing you to play and its their right to not let you play their game - its in the ToS everybody agreed to when they signed up.

 

 

This is the argument of somebody that knows they are in the wrong, "if you don't like us invading your privacy without permission or getting falsely banned for things we shouldn't even be able to know are on your phone because they don't interact with the game then kick rocks" whatever man, it seem you will just defend the devs even when they are clearly in the wrong so there's no point trying to reason.  I love this game and I respect the devs and will vehemently defend them when they are in the right but in this situation they clearly are wrong and this refusal to just admit mistakes were made at the risk of alienating a huge chunk of the playerbase is just childish and silly. Also it ISN'T the tos everybody agreed to, in desu's own words it's a new anti cheat program, the tos says nothing about having apps that dont interact with the game. Are we just openly lying now,? 

Edited October 23, 2023 by TheKrimsonKang

[LucasLyn5]

17 minutes ago, TheKrimsonKang said:

This is the argument of somebody that knows they are in the wrong, "if you don't like us invading your privacy without permission or getting falsely banned for things we shouldn't even be able to know are on your phone because they don't interact with the game then kick rocks" whatever man, it seem you will just defend the devs even when they are clearly in the wrong so there's no point trying to reason.  I love this game and I respect the devs and will vehemently defend them when they are in the right but in this situation they clearly are wrong and this refusal to just admit mistakes were made at the risk of alienating a huge chunk of the playerbase is just childish and silly. Also it ISN'T the tos everybody agreed to, in desu's own words it's a new anti cheat program, the tos says nothing about having apps that dont interact with the game. Are we just openly lying now,? 

The gist of it is that, some apps like auto clickers, stay open in the background constantly, and inadvertently "hook" (not the correct term, but you get the idea) into PokeMMO as a side effect, because it just aggresively "hooks" into any and all apps it can.

That "hook" is what PokeMMO is detecting.

Now, then they mention "incorrectly coded apps" doing this, it refers to said apps "hooking" into everything, instead of only doing it on a select app it was designed to.

A properly made auto clicker should be fully possible to have installed, while not getting banned, as long as it doesn't "hook" into PokeMMO as described.

 

TL;DR: PokeMMO detects apps that are "hooking" into it. This is a side effect of unrelated apps that are ultimately not made optimally/properly.

[MasterAND]

My thoughts on all of this:

 

1) This thread was just for a player to apologize and feel better. I don't see anything wrong with that. And if he never cheated, we should be happy that he can continue playing with us.

 

2) This all ends up being "the word" of the mods against "the word" of the banned players. The developers of this game have arranged their methods to prevent players from cheating, and we can only believe or not that they do their best to correct wrong bans (considering also that it's in their interests to have as many non-cheating players as possible playing their game).

 

3) If I ever create a game, and I say that whoever wants to play it has to do the handstand (even though it has nothing to do with my game), you can believe that you will have to do the handstand to play it. It's up to the owners of the game to create rules that do not discourage people from playing it, because otherwise no one would do it (as no one is forced to). And with this I'm not saying that you don't have the right to say that you disagree with the rules created.

 

4) This will so much appear in a patrouski video.

 

My advice: have fun playing, avoid getting banned and try not to get nervous about all of this. Life is more than that.

[TheKrimsonKang]

2 hours ago, LucasLyn5 said:

The gist of it is that, some apps like auto clickers, stay open in the background constantly, and inadvertently "hook" (not the correct term, but you get the idea) into PokeMMO as a side effect, because it just aggresively "hooks" into any and all apps it can.

That "hook" is what PokeMMO is detecting.

Now, then they mention "incorrectly coded apps" doing this, it refers to said apps "hooking" into everything, instead of only doing it on a select app it was designed to.

A properly made auto clicker should be fully possible to have installed, while not getting banned, as long as it doesn't "hook" into PokeMMO as described.

 

TL;DR: PokeMMO detects apps that are "hooking" into it. This is a side effect of unrelated apps that are ultimately not made optimally/properly.

I'm not sure I buy this explanation at all, no disrespect. Devs have specifically mentioned ad blockers and having parental safety controls as things that can trigger this, in addition the "game mode"   that my phone automatically goes into when I start a game up which is pre built into my phone, also sets off the system. Am I to believe Motorola and other well respected tech companies have  incorrectly coded their software to to appear as a clicker rather than that the devs of a small indie rom hack messed up?  That's a hard sell man. What seems more likely is that this may be a half truth, that is to say that the new update was incorrectly coded and now the game is "Hooking" as you say into apps improperly or attaching itself to things it should not be attaching to. 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by TheKrimsonKang

[CanadaSorry]

Note to self: hooking gets you banned.

[drewq]

4 hours ago, TheKrimsonKang said:

No, they actually don't man. They have no right to probe my phone for apps that don't interact with pokemmo end of story. That's like saying "anyone who has any other pokemon games on their phone is gonna get banned because we only want you playing pokemmo" is that also their right? How about we ban anybody who has Spotify on their phone because they don't pay the artists enough? It's completely unrelated to the game, it's one thing to check what apps are interacting with pokemmo but from what the devs have openly admitted they are overstepping and banning players for using ad blockers and controllers and who knows what else because they won't even tell us. It really boggles my mind how somebody can co-sign something like this, and they did it without even notifying the players as far as I am concerned that's an invasion of my privacy. I haven't been banned and I don't use any of these apps anyway but it's still not ok.

This is literally how every good anti-cheat functions in a variety of multiplayer games. 

[TheKrimsonKang]

20 minutes ago, drewq said:

This is literally how every good anti-cheat functions in a variety of multiplayer games. 

Bruh what great input you have put into this discussion, is it LITERALLY how every good anti cheat function operates? By flagging unrelated legal applications that aren't malicious? Here I was thinking most games just checked what apps have been connected to the game. I'm so glad we have these great anti cheat functions that are set off by things like having a parental lock or  using an add blocker to watch YouTube and then turning it off when you are playing the game. Surely we as players have no rights to use vpns to watch Netflix when we are no longer logged into the game or turn on safe mode so our kids don't see messed up shit. I'm also sure most good anti cheat software  accidentally reads the built in gaming functions on peoples phone as auto clicking applications. I'm glad to know all this my friend. 

[Foohy]

Nothing makes an intrusive anti-cheat ok. They have been proven time and time again to not work properly and only serve to compromise people's privacy (looking at you BattleEye)

This is even more concerning since this game is developed by a third party not affiliated with The Pokemon Company in any way. You guys did make a great game, but some people are not comfortable with giving intrusive access to their phones to a bootleg pokemon developer.

 

Is this anticheat also on the PC version of the game?

[DoNutzWarrior]

8 minutes ago, Foohy said:

Nothing makes an intrusive anti-cheat ok. They have been proven time and time again to not work properly and only serve to compromise people's privacy (looking at you BattleEye)

This is even more concerning since this game is developed by a third party not affiliated with The Pokemon Company in any way. You guys did make a great game, but some people are not comfortable with giving intrusive access to their phones to a bootleg pokemon developer.

 

Is this anticheat also on the PC version of the game?

Yup, I 100% with you. In Italy this can be sued, idk about other countries (I'm not interested in this matter cos I don't use software) 

[Doctor]

3 hours ago, drewq said:

This is literally how every good anti-cheat functions in a variety of multiplayer games. 

This is also illegal in the European Union, if I remember correctly, and it's why games like WoW have cheaters in PvP and stuff, because legally they can't scan your computer. But this is from what I've heard others say, I don't know the specifics, so feel free to laugh at me if I'm terribly wrong.

 

7 hours ago, Desu said:

Applications which intentionally send automated click events to PokeMMO are not compatible with PokeMMO. Applications which are coded incorrectly and accidentally send automated click events to PokeMMO are also not compatible with PokeMMO.

 

You may chose to disable these applications while you play PokeMMO or simply not play PokeMMO.

To be honest, Desu, it's kind of bold to say that every other app is "coded incorrectly" rather than acknowledging the system is not perfect and might need changes. Those apps existed before this automated system and of course their devs didn't take into account our Pokémon fan game so idk what "coded incorrectly" actually means in this scenario.

 

7 hours ago, Quakkz said:

no one is forcing you to play and its their right to not let you play their game - its in the ToS everybody agreed to when they signed up.

 

 

You can sign an illegal contract and that doesn't make it legal by any means, same way you can accept an illegal clause in a ToS agreement and that doesn't mean it automatically becomes legal. Not saying that there's anything illegal here, don't get me wrong, like I stated above this is WAY beyond my own understanding of EU's laws, just saying that argument doesn't really work.

 

IDK, like I said in previous messages here, I'm sure the new system wiped a lot of bots and that's great. I also understand that for devs to be able to change and fix something, it needs to be implemented, flawed as it might be, and then work with the community's feedback. The problem here is the same as always, though, when the community speaks up they're labeled as crybabies and told "if you don't like it don't play". Sure, a lot of people will complain about literally everything no matter what people do, but shutting down legit discussions because in the past other people cried about other stuff doesn't lead anywhere and kills any criticism. In this very thread I suggested the system might be flawed, and could be misfiring at apps that couldn't be used to cheat on PokeMMO in any way, and I was told I was being unfair.

 

Seems like we're running in circles now, though. It's confirmed that the bans have no real meaning for our accounts/punishment history since the staff team is actively working on responding to all submitted tickets, and devs are using the info provided by said players to further improve the system. It's also confirmed that the tool does indeed misfire in the presence of numerous apps that devs can't possibly know about since Android's app offer is basically endless. And it's also confirmed they're working on further improving a system that, while apparently is already working marvels, has still room for improvement. I don't know if there's anything else to discuss, we can get into the privacy argument but that's been like that for PC PokeMMO for years and all it does is check you don't have 3rd party programs installed/interfering with the game. And like Drew mentioned above, it's how most games run their anti-cheat software. I doubt Desu or Kyu care about what other games we all play and that kind of stuff, and while I get how that could be upsetting for some, let's be honest, it's probably the less intrusive information gathering method we engage with in our everyday life, with Google and such being a thing.

 

tl;dr bring little cup back and stop fighting, I hate when people fight and it's not for my undying love and affection

[Johnwaynee]

9 hours ago, Desu said:

Applications which intentionally send automated click events to PokeMMO are not compatible with PokeMMO. Applications which are coded incorrectly and accidentally send automated click events to PokeMMO are also not compatible with PokeMMO.

 

You may chose to disable these applications while you play PokeMMO or simply not play PokeMMO.

Let's say i'd use some tools for hotkey-streaming (to multibox in world of warcraft), wether a tailored tool or simple AHK scripts, i'd assume (when opening pokemmo next to it) it's a no go for the current situation?

[AstralFish]

lmao me late to the party, seeing all of this and realise i also have auto-clicker on phone not used since 2 years

[SmithContreras55]

Before the update I played calmly and reloaded RP by contributing $$$ to the game.

 

Now I can only play on my laptop and not on my cell phone or tablet, because the game bans me. I already uninstalled and reinstalled on my Android cell phone. But... I get the message that I can be banned, I complained and they mentioned that I use clips that I don't know what, I don't even use mods and they tell me that my software is bad, I just think, Should I buy an iPhone to play quietly? or what solution to give? The worst thing is that my Samsung galaxy S23 order is already in and I feel bad for not buying an iPhone.

 

I just wish they would give us a solution for those of us who play on Android, I play calmly, I contribute real money, but I feel like the game doesn't care about this. It's the feeling I get from the game, I don't know if others do too.

 

I'm sorry, my english is bad. I hope my message is understood 😅.

[ProfessorBlue]

Imagine just blaming other softwares code being incorrect when you can't make a better detector lmao

[Gabrielreason]

Puedo preguntar, recibí un baneo de tres días que decía por manipulación del cliente y no tengo nada de eso. ¿Puede que una aplicación como play juegos o el Gametime que es del teléfono me interfiera en el Pokémmo?

Edited October 24, 2023 by Gabrielreason
Mal escritura

[lluuiiggii]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:14 PM, Desu said:

Applications which intentionally send automated click events to PokeMMO are not compatible with PokeMMO. Applications which are coded incorrectly and accidentally send automated click events to PokeMMO are also not compatible with PokeMMO.

 

You may chose to disable these applications while you play PokeMMO or simply not play PokeMMO.

Are there plans to make changes which will allow these poorly programmed, but nonetheless harmless applications to work alongside PokeMMO? Is the team at least looking into the feasibility of such a change? If such a change is impossible (due to some limitation of the Android OS, I work in software and I get it, sometimes things like this happen on these platforms) or even undesirable would you guys be willing to announce as much? Perhaps even include a list of "false positive" apps which future users can be made aware of and potentially avoid. If not, why?

 

I want to try and be constructive here, because emotions are really running high about this anti-cheat.

Edited October 25, 2023 by lluuiiggii

[Barrelztitor]

What the hell is going on here 

[SumertimeGladnes]

[Pip3ta]

I have been playing this game for a couple of years and never had bann issues untill now.

I have no autoclicker, ad blocker or nothing like that in my andoroid phone. Yes, I did double check. I was really disapointed when I see people or even devs questioning this. The only way than we can prove you this is like going to a dev's house and showing them my installed apps (?) Like probably we are not all of us lying.

I am guessing now that the problem is probably related to some android system thing and not to other apps, but of course I could be wrong. The bann is not inmediate, it happens after some minutes, so it is strage to me that it does not recognize instantly any strange app from the start.

At this point, based on the devs reponses and this long post, I really just want to know if this is a recognized issue, if there is a solution being searched for, or we just have to asume that there will be no fix, we are just lying to ourselves and everyone and we should just stop playing becuase we are cheaters, wich I can't prove im not.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Pip3ta
Bad typing