OU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[LuisPocho]

11 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

spaintacula, have u looked at the charts and numbers... its pretty obvious that there is less diversity and more centralization with snorlax gone then with him around.  its simply math dude.

emmm no, even withouth the full chart...  how do you even reach that conclusion? there are more pokes with more than 7% usage than last month, that clearly shows now there is more variety

[Spaintakula]

6 minutes ago, LuisPocho said:

emmm no, even withouth the full chart...  how do you even reach that conclusion? there are more pokes with more than 7% usage than last month, that clearly shows now there is more variety

Yeah was gonna say that too. Pre snorlax ban usage below 10% was just drastically dropping afaik, post ban was more pokes wandering around that usage, so yeah

[gbwead]

   Usage with Snorlax                                                 Usage without Snorlax

                         

                         

8 pokemons over 25% usage                                                         5 pokemons over 25% usage

7 pokemons between 15% and 25% usage                                   8 pokemons between 15% and 25% usage

35 OU by usage pokemons (above the 4.36% cut-off point)        37 OU by usage pokemons (above the 4.36% cut-off point)

Based on the fact that, ever since the snorlax ban, there is less pokemons over 25% usage, more pokemons between 15%-25% usage and more arguably viable OU pokemons in the tier, I think it is fair to say that the Laxless meta is more open to creativity than the Lax meta. 

 

However, when it comes to comparing the level of centralisation of each metagame, it is difficult to claim anything with certainty giving the number of subjective variables to take into consideration. Prior to the Snorlax test ban, Snorlax was everyone's focus when teambuilding and playing. Following the Snorlax, Chansey and Venusaur, two pokemons heavily countered by Snorlax, have now become the main focus of centralisation imo. These 2 meta are centralised in very different ways, so it is not evident which is better regarding the level of centralisation.

 

Something that could perhaps be useful for this centralisation comparison would be a centralisation index. Economist use centralisation indexes, like the Herfindahl index, to evaluate how a market is defined by the big players of that market. Basically, this index is defined as the sum of the squares of the market shares of the firms of a specific market. The higher the result, the more centralised the market. If we consider each pokemon as a firm and the raw usage of these pokemons as the market share of firms, we could theorically come up with our own way to compare mathematically the level of centralisation of each meta by looking directly at the usage distribution.

 

For the month of September, I calced an index value of 304+. For the month of October, I calced an index value of 319+. For the month of November (when Lax was ban), I calced an index value of 315. In theory, the higher the index value, the more centralised the meta. This means that the Lax meta was more centralising than the Laxless meta, but not by much. Obviously, centralisation is not all about numbers, but I just though these index values could give some perspective to the people that make claims about how centralising one meta can be compared to another. 

 

Edited December 10, 2016 by gbwead

[OrangeManiac]

The current OU looks pretty diverse and I must say I personally find Laxless meta much more enjoyable in terms of competitive play but I must say there is one counter-argument that needs to be taken consideration. The fact all of the Pokemon that stopped Snorlax remained viable. I heard lots of people point out that "Milotic and Weezing are solely used to stop Snorlax" but the usage of these Pokemon either remained or even raised slightly. In general, though Lax had the edge of so many Pokemon in the metagame and looking at the current usage board it's pretty difficult to find anything bad about current OU... To me it looks like the best OU tier this game has had ever.

[gbwead]

2 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

 The fact all of the Pokemon that stopped Snorlax remained viable. I heard lots of people point out that "Milotic and Weezing are solely used to stop Snorlax" but the usage of these Pokemon either remained or even raised slightly. 

I don't think this is entirely true. I no longer see Milotic or Weezing carry Haze unlike before. Rhydon is no longer OU by usage. Dusclops lost 5% in usage.

[epicdavenport]

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

I don't think this is entirely true. I no longer see Milotic or Weezing carry Haze unlike before. Rhydon is no longer OU by usage. Dusclops lost 5% in usage.

please make Rhydon UU.

 

20 hours ago, Gunthug said:

why would we discuss salamence lol

I think he mean't tyranitar.

[Suneet]

Just a qyuestion, are there any plans to move Vaporeon down to UU?

[gbwead]

1 minute ago, Suneet said:

Just a qyuestion, are there any plans to move Vaporeon down to UU?

Vaporeon sits at 4.81% usage in OU which is above the 4.36% cut-off point. This mean that Vaporeon is OU by usage and can't be moved down to UU.

[Suneet]

1 minute ago, gbwead said:

Vaporeon sits at 4.81% usage in OU which is above the 4.36% cut-off point. This mean that Vaporeon is OU by usage and can't be moved down to UU.

Oh, ok. Thank you!

[Hotarubi]

Milotic is incredibly viable still and will remain so.

On 11/11/2016 at 9:32 PM, Hotarubi said:

MILOTIC

 

 

 

Bio:

Milotic is an aquatic, serpentine Pokémon with a primarily cream-colored body. It has red eyes with long, pinkish antennae above them. Additionally, there are long, hair-like fins above its eyes, which begin thin and thicken towards the tips. These eyebrows extend to almost half of Milotic's body length, and will be longer on the female than the male. On top of its relatively small head is a straight spike. Running down either side of its neck are three black dots, similar to gills. Its lower body is a patterning of blue and pink, diamond-shaped scales outlined with black. The tail consists of four large, blue fins with pink ovals in their centers. Each of the tail fins overlaps the next slightly, causing it to resemble a fan. While it has not been depicted, Milotic's scales are said to change color depending on the viewing angle.

 

Type: Water

 

Abilities:	Marvel Scale
Tier:	OU

Hp:	95
Attack:	60
Defense:	79
Sp. Atk:	100
Sp. Def:	125
Speed:	81

 

Overall this Pokemon is still viable and a strong way to wall off water attacks and even other special attacks depending on the nature.

It's move set and nature is subject to change from bold to calm if it wants to completely wall off special attackers  calm nature is also a viable thing.

Though it has its common checks, I have to say its more than just viable and I feel personally that it missed its chance to shine as a special wall due to the fact that Snorlax was already in it's place upon its implementation.

The implementation of this Pokemon made me very happy personally.

A much awaited arrival as prior to it being implemented the only way you could encounter it was the Hoenn elite 4  Champion Wallace.

 

Once again I don't see that its usage or purpose  was taken away from via Snorlax ban. 

It is still more than capable of walling and even damaging, or killing many Pokemon in your opponents possible arsenal.

it's move sets commonly include Recover which can habitually restore half hp and in general even stab super effective stab attacks won't OHKO 

this pokemon.

It can also run the move mirror coat in combination with its way better than average special defense not to mention it's got 540 points in total base stats & a wide range of other utility moves offering  a nice Surprise factor and the ability to be creative to its user.

 

Still viable, still beautiful <3 Milotic.

I'm guessing its safe to assume haunter will remain OU?

What about the entire zangoose thing etc?

And kangas?

Edited December 10, 2016 by Hotarubi

[KaynineXL]

4 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

The current OU looks pretty diverse and I must say I personally find Laxless meta much more enjoyable in terms of competitive play but I must say there is one counter-argument that needs to be taken consideration. The fact all of the Pokemon that stopped Snorlax remained viable. I heard lots of people point out that "Milotic and Weezing are solely used to stop Snorlax" but the usage of these Pokemon either remained or even raised slightly. In general, though Lax had the edge of so many Pokemon in the metagame and looking at the current usage board it's pretty difficult to find anything bad about current OU... To me it looks like the best OU tier this game has had ever.

Weezing was always a lover of the Chansey partnership in OU, even before Snorlax was unbanned, they were always partnered together so I'm not surprised at all. Milotic I'm a little surprised about but it's still probably the most solid Gyarados counter, so I can see why people use it still.

Edited December 10, 2016 by KaynineXL

[Spaintakula]

1 hour ago, KaynineXL said:

Weezing was always a lover of the Chansey partnership in OU, even before Snorlax was unbanned, they were always partnered together so I'm not surprised at all. Milotic I'm a little surprised about but it's still probably the most solid Gyarados counter, so I can see why people use it still.

Doesn't porygon do a better job at stopping gyara?

[xilias]

4 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

Doesn't porygon do a better job at stopping gyara?

porygon can get flinchhaxed and porygon doesn't get advantage from Twave gyaras(those are pretty rare but still).but porygon still does a decent job

[BlackJovi]

5 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

Doesn't porygon do a better job at stopping gyara?

Cb waterfall? No. 

[KaynineXL]

39 minutes ago, Spaintakula said:

Doesn't porygon do a better job at stopping gyara?

Depends how much investment you put into the pory's physical bulk, sometimes if you don't put enough it can be risky, like 1 flinch risky.

 

If you invest a fuck load of physical bulk, it means you probably need some support to defend against special attackers because although it can still handle jolts, it can no longer handle specs users specifically, like Starmie, Zam, and rain users. Pory doesn't do well against those with full sp def bulk, let alone with putting some in def.

 

Milotic takes advantage from para with its ability(if the gyara is cb body slam, or twave), and the water typing means the gyara can't really be flinch it to death.

Edited December 10, 2016 by KaynineXL

[Spaintakula]

1 hour ago, BlackJovi said:

Cb waterfall? No. 

Cb wfall is a 3ko, 4ko if fully invested.

But yeah kay, it isn't a all out general best counter to other mons, I said that considering it was only for countering gyara.

E: and not to mention that pory can cripple gyara back with twave

Edited December 10, 2016 by Spaintakula

[Erayne]

Milotic is great atm. The lack of good thunder/grass physical sweepers make it a great wall. I really know well what I'm talking about considering I reached around 40th place in leaderboard using a physical full offensive, and milotic was the only pokemon that if played well (ofc in synergy with other wall/s) could stop me. The same pokemon made me drop a lot in leaderboard and convinced me to completely change my team and my philosofy. I'm convinced that it's gonna be the second most used next month

[LuisPocho]

1 hour ago, Spaintakula said:

Cb wfall is a 3ko, 4ko if fully invested.

But yeah kay, it isn't a all out general best counter to other mons, I said that considering it was only for countering gyara.

E: and not to mention that pory can cripple gyara back with twave

I think pory is better because it also counters gyarados best friend jolteon...

[RysPicz]

Today was my first OU game ever since the salty suite with Tranz (I think) and I reached 4th round while switching my team around but keeping an aggressive and offensive playstyle. I pretty much enjoyed the battles I had and even the fact that I lost my round4 game because of a crit doesn't change that feeling.

All the teams I faced today were different though, resolving around different cores and strategies. I did not see the same Milo + Forret + Lax + Weez archetype all over again in every round. I saw Ursa being really useful and viable, same goes for Porygon and Gardevoir which I used myself and they were doing fairly well (especially the Porygod).

Surprisingly enough, the only poke which made my teambuilding quite restrictive was not Chansey or Heracross. The poke I thought about the most was Venusaur. I ditched my idea about using Sceptile and almost immeadietly regreted taking Loom into one of my teams (although I was lucky enough not to meet a Saur that time). I felt like any of my Swamperts or Feraligatrs would be a dead weight, same for Milotic. It's also the reason why I don't like running Chansey but that's less important, fuck Chansey ;v

 

Regardless, I'm definietly enjoying this OU meta more than I liked the previous one. Just a subjective opinion from person who was fighting to ban Snorlax and I totally feel right now like it was worth it.

[fredrichnietze]

1 hour ago, RysPicz said:

fuck Chansey ;v

[LifeStyle]

Tier update when

[RysPicz]

2 hours ago, LifeStyle said:

Tier update when

I'm actually wondering if it will happen this month- aside from usage stats. We barely had any tournaments to change the usage

[LifeStyle]

1 minute ago, RysPicz said:

I'm actually wondering if it will happen this month- aside from usage stats. We barely had any tournaments to change the usage

oh, I thought they also counted ranked matchmaking

[RysPicz]

2 minutes ago, LifeStyle said:

oh, I thought they also counted ranked matchmaking

RIP NU and UU usage though

 

E:
@SweeTforU

something's waiting for you

Edited January 8, 2017 by RysPicz

[LifeStyle]

Just now, RysPicz said:

RIP NU and UU usage though

true true