Official Tournament Prizes

[Darkshade]

 You should just be sure these shinies are atleast worth 5-10. Meanwhile you can keep the non tradeable non comp shinies for art events etc

 

 

But why make the non-tradable shiny be 25/25/25/25/25/31. Seeing as you can't trade it anyway and can basically breed a better non-shiny version. And tbh 5-10 million shinies really don't fuck over the economy, because you know. It is already fucked.

 

 

That's an incredibly large amount of money to be won in the space of a single night.

It would take a substantial amount time to earn this money if you were to grind it as any other player would.

 

Last Month we ran 16 events, about 2 of those were non-standard (If I were to include Ubers also.)

 

Let's be kind and remove the non-standard events from equation.

That leaves us with 14.

 

If we gave away a tradeable prize worth 5 million at each of these events, we'd have given out 70 million in a month.

If we gave away a tradeable prize worth 7.5 million at each of these events (the middle of your proposed range), we'd have given out 105 million in a month.

If we gave away a tradeable prize worth 10 million at each of these events, we'd have given out 140 million in a month.

 

That's simply too much being brought into the economy in such a short time period.

[ThinkNice]

That's an incredibly large amount of money to be won in the space of a single night.

It would take a substantial amount time to earn this money if you were to grind it as any other player would.

 

Last Month we ran 16 events, about 2 of those were non-standard (If I were to include Ubers also.)

 

Let's be kind and remove the non-standard events from equation.

That leaves us with 14.

 

If we gave away a tradeable prize worth 5 million at each of these events, we'd have given out 70 million in a month.

If we gave away a tradeable prize worth 7.5 million at each of these events (the middle of your proposed range), we'd have given out 105 million in a month.

If we gave away a tradeable prize worth 10 million at each of these events, we'd have given out 140 million in a month.

 

That's simply too much, as it is to give away that much per-person at a standard tournament.

That's a lot being brought into the economy and on a per-event-basis it is a lot of money to be giving a singular player.

Did you not read what I said at all.

[Noad]

Okay so below I have put together a list of shinies that I consider not to break the economy:

Caterpie evos

Weedle evos

Pidgey evos

Rattata evos

Spearow evos

Nidoran (F) evos

Zubat evos

Oddish evos

Paras evos

Venonat evos

Diglett evos

Meowth evos

Psyduck evos

Mankey evos

Machop evos

Bellsprout evos

Tentacool evos

Geodude evos

Slowpoke evos

Doduo evos

Seel evos

Gastly evos

Krabby evos

Rhyhorn evos

Tangela

Goldeen evos

Furret

Hoppip evos

Marill and Azumarill

Wooper evos

Slugma evos

Donphan

Poochyena evos

Zigzagoon evos

Wingull evos

Whismur evos

Spinda 

 

All around the 3-4 million range and what I consider to be a fair compromise. I think the above list are shinys that could be tradeable without breaking the market, which the new system aims to prevent.

I'm not saying these should be given out every time and a balance should be made between gift competitive shinies and the tradeable shinies listed above. I do feel that there is room for improvement on the gift comp shiny front (egg moves, 31 iv stat not just being in speed, Hidden Power ect) and something that should be considered. Cash prizes are something we can suggest to Squirtle as I know it is something that he did not rule out in the previous discussion. However I am afraid that giving out shinies of great value (5+ million) is no longer an option in light of the recent changes. 

[Quakkz]

Okay so below I have put together a list of shinies that I consider not to break the economy:

Caterpie evos

Weedle evos

Pidgey evos

Rattata evos

Spearow evos

Nidoran (F&M) evos

Zubat evos

Oddish evos

Paras evos

Venonat evos

Diglett evos

Meowth evos

Psyduck evos

Mankey evos

Machop evos

Bellsprout evos

Tentacool evos

Geodude evos

Slowpoke evos

Doduo evos

Seel evos

Gastly evos

Onix evos

Krabby evos

Rhyhorn evos

Tangela

Goldeen evos

Furret

Hoppip evos

Marill and Azumarill

Wooper evos

Slugma evos

Donphan

Poochyena evos

Zigzagoon evos

Wingull evos

Whismur evos

Carvahna evos

Spinda 

 

All around the 3-4 million range and what I consider to be a fair compromise. I'm not saying these should be given out every time and a balance should be made between gift competitive shinies and the tradeable shinies listed above. I do feel that there is room for improvement on the gift comp shiny front (egg moves, 31 iv stat not just being in speed, Hidden Power ect) and something that should be considered. Cash prizes are something we can suggest to Squirtle as I know it is something that he did not rule out in the previous discussion. However I am afraid that giving out shinies of great value (5+ million) is no longer an option in light of the recent changes. 

carvanha and hoppip are more than 5+, so is nidoran M

 

 

Dont you already have the solution? The flaw of the last system was that there was a constant influx of tradeable shinies for every tournament. Now you have non trade comp shinies that do not add any value or inflation to the market and you can throw tradeable shinies in there like twice a month. You should just be sure these shinies are atleast worth 5-10. Meanwhile you can keep the non tradeable non comp shinies for art events etc

i think if u host tourneys with those prizes twice a month those will be overpopulated, while the other tourneys probably get less attention

Edited June 17, 2015 by Quakkz

[ThinkNice]

Okay so below I have put together a list of shinies that I consider not to break the economy:

Venonat evos

Onix evos

Furret

Marill and Azumarill

Wooper evos

Donphan

Carvahna evos

this is a more accurate list for the 3-4mil range, all the others were 2 or less

[Noad]

Personally I feel like 2-4 million in prize value is fair as a prize for a tournament, it is certainly an improvement of the system that doesn't seem to be particularly popular with players and I can see where some of the more legitimate complaints are coming from. 

[KaynineXL]

this is a more accurate list for the 3-4mil range, all the others were 2 or less

Venonat is not 3-4 lol. I have 2 of those a few months ago, I advertised to sell it for 1.5m for like 2 days straight.. ended up auctioning it for 1.2m They're undesired trash tbh.

 

 

EDIT:

Personally I feel like 2-4 million in prize value is fair as a prize for a tournament, it is certainly an improvement of the system that doesn't seem to be particularly popular with players and I can see where some of the more legitimate complaints are coming from. 

 

I'm not sure I have seen any tradable shinies valued at 2-4 since the change.. And if I have.. Very very little.

 

I think it would be better if you're gonna make Comp non-tradable shinies at least higher the IVs, or give 2x31s.. Like 25/31/25/25/25/31 Adamant for example.. 25 is too low for an attacking stat.

Also, make tradeable prizes range 4-8m ish and do them like once a month as a prize...

Edited June 17, 2015 by KaynineXL

[ThinkNice]

Personally I feel like 2-4 million in prize value is fair as a prize for a tournament, it is certainly an improvement of the system that doesn't seem to be particularly popular with players and I can see where some of the more legitimate complaints are coming from. 

If you have an influx of 10mil a month from official events that really isn't harmful (which is what I proposed with shinies around the 5 mark and giving them out twice a month. Actually it's beneficial for the economy as the economy right now is staler than OU. Comp players actually give out the money they get from officials. Like stated in this thread what is happening right now is that shiny traders are stagnating the economy because they never give something out. Meanwhile the comp players that would give money out can't do it because they don't fucking get anything to give out. While making comps to sustain their position in comp play drains all the money they have anyway.

[Quakkz]

Venonat is not 3-4 lol. I have 2 of those a few months ago, I advertised to sell it for 1.5m for like 2 days straight.. ended up auctioning it for 1.2m They're undesired trash tbh.

well that was in the time when shinies went for half prize right after the update. it gotten easier to sell them for cash since then.

 

3-4 is way too high tho still, more like 1.8-2. but this isnt VD :D

Edited June 17, 2015 by Quakkz

[Noad]

Okay this isn't Value Discussion, we don't need to discuss values here. It is a list I threw together in 5 minutes and I am by my own admission not a shiny trader, so there are going to be inaccuracies~

 

 

 

 

I think it would be better if you're gonna make Comp non-tradable shinies at least higher the IVs, or give 2x31s.. Like 25/31/25/25/25/31 Adamant for example.. 25 is too low for an attacking stat.

Also, make tradeable prizes range 4-8m ish and do them like once a month as a prize...

 

I would rather distribute that 8 million range within 2-3 players than just one (so 2-3 tournaments), I would prefer as many players as possible to benefit from any changes rather than just one a month. 

[KaynineXL]

Okay this isn't Value Discussion, we don't need to discuss values here. It is a list I threw together in 5 minutes and I am by my own admission not a shiny trader, so there are going to be inaccuracies~

 

 

 

I would rather distribute that 8 million range within 2-3 players than just one (so 2-3 tournaments), I would prefer as many players as possible to benefit from any changes rather than just one a month. 

 

I think a lot of people would disagree, I think most comp players would rather have bigger prize pools less often rather than smaller more frequently.

 

Don't get me wrong, you work hard and you're one of the most committed to hosting tournys, everyone feels the prizes are lame and you're getting flack for it. Which is wrong.

[Noad]

I think a lot of people would disagree, I think most comp players would rather have bigger prize pools less often rather than smaller more frequently.

 

Sure but if we had a theoretical limit of 8 million in tradeable shinies in a month, to me it makes more sense to split that into 2-3 tournaments with 3-4 million prizes than have only one person benefit from it. 3 million is still a lot of money that could tide someone over breeding wise for a little while. Granted battle points are expensive to buy currently but there would also still be tournaments where you can win them and also the next update should make them easier to obtain.

I just don't like the idea of 1 person benefiting from this per month while every other tournament winner is left with our current system that people don't seem to get on with. 

[DoctorPBC]

Ok compromise time

I completely agree with Raidnn, Think and Frags here. The prizes are too shitty for the time and investment comp players make towards it.... It's not like I'm ever winning these things so consider the amount of comps, money and time I've invested to making this happen (approximately 6-10 hours per comp if I'm going from scratch, around 300k per in bracers, everstones and ability pills) then multiply that by 20 so I have different Pokemon to work with.

I'm sorry but doing all that work for a fucking shiny gift koffing or trade able zubat isn't doing it for me.

Personally for me I have played 1 tournament in the last month and probably won't play another for a while, the prizes aren't exciting enough to warrant it.

I'm ok with shitty prizes, gift shiny comps are cool kinda but they do need better options for IVs/hidden powers, but having every tournament as one of these really sucks... Why not have 1 or 2 tournaments a month with a 20+ trade able value prize instead and the occasional one with like a shiny grow lithe or something?

All I'm asking for is better rewards for players who do actually play the game and grind their way to making these tournaments happen.

Edited June 17, 2015 by DoctorPBC

[Gilan]

Why are shiny pokemon even the prize for tournament events?

[Kizhaz]

It actually surprises me how many people are against comp shiny's, iirc when the idea was first pitched to the community in Squirtle's thread everyone loved it. I haven't ever won a tourney as most people know so I've never partaken in trading around shiny pokemon for cash meaning this change in prizes didn't affect me directly if at all, but from what I've seen current prizes in the officials currently open have been pretty decent pokemon. I don't think the IV's are too low at all, in most cases it's the difference between 3 points in a stat, big whoop, something still does need to be done about those pokemon that need a hidden power or moving the 31 around ofc.

 

I understand prizes used to be worth a lot of money whereas now they are effectively worth max 500k due to being essentially an untradable comp, however what we have to remember we are also not having to waste however many hours or days to make that comp anymore. We changed say 2mil yen prizes to 500k + no grind. From the looks of it I may be alone in the community as I say all this but if I won a tourney I would love a shiny comp in some cases even a secret base item.

 

While I'm at it, why is it some people only play a tournament for the prize, hell I play a tournament just to have some fun with some friends and possibly have a taste at glory, this is a game after all, I'm just looking for entertainment not the cash or different coloured pixels within

Edited June 17, 2015 by Kizhaz

[KaynineXL]

Sure but if we had a theoretical limit of 8 million in tradeable shinies in a month, to me it makes more sense to split that into 2-3 tournaments with 3-4 million prizes than have only one person benefit from it. 3 million is still a lot of money that could tide someone over breeding wise for a little while. Granted battle points are expensive to buy currently but there would also still be tournaments where you can win them and also the next update should make them easier to obtain.

I just don't like the idea of 1 person benefiting from this per month while every other tournament winner is left with our current system that people don't seem to get on with. 

 

I see your point, but if I'm being totally honest.. I really haven't seen any tournys with tradable shinies worth 3m+

and defiantly not 2-3 tradable shinies worth 3m+ a month.

 

I'v gone through all the compiled old tournys and checked the prizes...

 

This is what I'v found from the 1st of May.....

Tangala(Not even Tourny prize) 700k? - This hasn't even happened yet...

Psyduck 1.4m?

Rattata & Pidgey(doubles, so 1 each person) 600k + 900k?

Geodude 1.2m?

Crobat 600k?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong on this by the way.

 

If this is true, this just isn't good enough..

Edited June 17, 2015 by KaynineXL

[Tyrone]

I see your point, but if I'm being totally honest.. I really haven't seen any tournys with tradable shinies worth 3m+

and defiantly not 2-3 tradable shinies worth 3m+ a month.

 

I'v gone through all the compiled old tournys and checked the prizes...

 

This is what I'v found from the 1st of May.....

Tangala(Not even Tourny prize) 700k?

Psyduck 1.4m?

Rattata & Pidgey(doubles, so 1 each person) 600k + 900k?

Geodude 1.2m?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong on this by the way.

 

If this is true, this just isn't good enough..

She never said that there were tournaments with 3m+ value in shinies. She said she'd prefer to have 2 or 3 events with a shiny of value 3m rather than one event with a shiny of value 8m.

 

I wouldn't mind increasing the values of tournament prizes, but within a limit. I believe twice/three times a month a price of 3-4m wouldn't break the economy.

Note that this is my personal vision and may not be shared with other staff members.

[Gunthug]

 

 I do feel that there is room for improvement on the gift comp shiny front (egg moves, 31 iv stat not just being in speed, Hidden Power ect) and something that should be considered. 

This is something that pisses me off to no end - staff who point out a problem that they are more than capable of fixing, but don't actually fix it. This isn't a practice bar exam essay - you don't get bonus points for issue spotting. Noad, if you acknowledge that these are problems with gift shinies (which, lets be honest, they're MASSIVE problems that almost nullify the whole point of comp gift shinies), then your next tournament should fix these problems. I don't care if you have to go through squirtle - what the hell does squirtle know about competitive play and gift shinies? Tell him what the problem is, and what the solution WILL be. If you're telling me that you don't have the power to customize a hidden power for your next gift shiny winner, I simply don't believe you.

 

Enough sitting around talking about the problems with the new system - do something about it

[KaynineXL]

She never said that there were tournaments with 3m+ value in shinies. She said she'd prefer to have 2 or 3 events with a shiny of value 3m rather than one event with a shiny of value 8m.

 

I wouldn't mind increasing the values of tournament prizes, but within a limit. I believe twice/three times a month a price of 3-4m wouldn't break the economy.

Note that this is my personal vision and may not be shared with other staff members.

 

But either way, from what I showed you.. Those prizes are simply too small..

 

2-3 events a month of tradable shinies worth 3-4 would be great... but we just never get them... It seems you and noad think it's fine, so why don't get them?

 

Or is it out of your control?

[Noad]

This is something that pisses me off to no end - staff who point out a problem that they are more than capable of fixing, but don't actually fix it. This isn't a practice bar exam essay - you don't get bonus points for issue spotting. Noad, if you acknowledge that these are problems with gift shinies (which, lets be honest, they're MASSIVE problems that almost nullify the whole point of comp gift shinies), then your next tournament should fix these problems. I don't care if you have to go through squirtle - what the hell does squirtle know about competitive play and gift shinies? Tell him what the problem is, and what the solution WILL be. If you're telling me that you don't have the power to customize a hidden power for your next gift shiny winner, I simply don't believe you.

 

Enough sitting around talking about the problems with the new system - do something about it

 

It's not up to me or something I can fix personally, sure I can and have suggested some changes/improvements but ultimately the final say on the prize system is not down to myself or any other lower staff member. All changes to prizes need to go through Squirtle and have his approval, so no I cannot just add it onto my next tournament without there being a discussion in staff, the reason why I am actively involving myself in this discussion so I can take these points back. 

[OldKeith]

Excellence should be rewarded. There is no reason to NOT reward a player that wins an official, because winning 5 matches, occasionally 6 in a row is a lot of hard work, preparation and thought. Players who do not win that official have all the time to prepare a better team. Sure, they have to grind instead, but that is just natural. An alt run can give you enough resources to breed a 5x31 or 6x31 comp. Gift non-comp shinies are the worst prizes possible, they are just trophies that eat a valuable pc slot and, as suggested before, should only be awarded for art/media contests.

 

What I would like to see in terms of official prizes:

 

1. Improvement in Gift Competitive Shinies

These are cool. No doubt everyone loves them. But are the ones that we get now comp? Not at all. There is too much difference between competitiveness here, as only some sweepers can trully benefit from the 31 IV in speed, while the vast majority of other comps suffer from the absence of egg moves and a useful hidden power. My suggestion here is to upgrade the shiny comp the following way:

Have 2 IVs at your disposal that can be 30 or 31

Have 4 IVs at your disposal that can be 24 or 25

Get any Egg Move.

This way they will be trully comps and people would use them. Do you give too much to a comp player this way? No, the shiny has no value, just sentimental, and the price of a 5x31 comp barely surpasses 1 million in value, as shown in my breeding cost guide.

 

2. Removal of Gift Non-Comp Shinies

Just useless, give them to non-comp players instead. There are plenty of kids who enjoy bragging about their shinies in this game.

 

3. Cash prizes.

Just do it. Rather that forcing players to spam trade chat to sell their crappy shiny prizes, just give them cash straight away. Spoil the winners and motivate the losers to work harder for a well-deserved prize. There are many talented players in the community, I am sure each of them will win the cash, in turns, so the prize will be evenly distributed, eventually.

 

4. Keep the battle point prizes (or upgrade them)

 

5. Other prizes such as items or decorations are nice as an optional alternative.

[Gunthug]

It's not up to me or something I can fix personally, sure I can and have suggested some changes/improvements but ultimately the final say on the prize system is not down to myself or any other lower staff member. All changes to prizes need to go through Squirtle and have his approval, so no I cannot just add it onto my next tournament without there being a discussion in staff, the reason why I am actively involving myself in this discussion so I can take these points back. 

I hear what you're saying, I just can't imagine it'd be very hard to get squirtle's approval on this. It's a very short conversation:

 

"Squirtle, those competitive gift shiny prizes? They're currently in need of two important changes, and I'd like to implement these changes for my next tournament. The IVs should be tweakable to permit a certain hidden power, and they need access to important egg moves.

 

Without these features, they won't truly be competitive, and it's astounding that we missed these problems when the idea was originally put into action."

 

If he's unwilling to listen to a high ranking staff member assertively pointing out an easily fixable problem, then this game is in bigger trouble than I thought.

[Darkshade]

Comp players actually give out the money they get from officials. Like stated in this thread what is happening right now is that shiny traders are stagnating the economy because they never give something out. Meanwhile the comp players that would give money out can't do it because they don't fucking get anything to give out. While making comps to sustain their position in comp play drains all the money they have anyway.

 

And you don't think that this is a good indication that money being given out is too much?

That players were able to receive their winnings, spend it on things they require and still have some left over to give away?

 

That's not beneficial to the economy in any way at all, it may be beneficial to the players involved however.

 

I'd like to point out that the creation of competitives is not something exclusive to Official Events, but is something that is a requirement to participate in many other areas of the game such as some of the facilities in the upcoming Battle Frontier.

 

I can understand the primary reason many do this right now is due to Official Events, but whilst winning an Official is something that should be rewarded let's not pretend that the competitives don't see the light of day again and will not be used in other areas.

 

I think that rewarding players for winning/participating is a good idea, but covering the costs of the competitives made and then giving some extra is far too much when the competitives themselves are worth creating in the first place.

 

Did you not read what I said at all.

 

My aim was not to respond to your post individually but to respond to the general request to increase the amount being given out/change the current gifts over to tradeables.

That's why I included TheChampionMike's post in the quotes also.

 

It actually surprises me how many people are against comp shiny's, iirc when the idea was first pitched to the community in Squirtle's thread everyone loved it. I haven't ever won a tourney as most people know so I've never partaken in trading around shiny pokemon for cash meaning this change in prizes didn't affect me directly if at all, but from what I've seen current prizes in the officials currently open have been pretty decent pokemon. I don't think the IV's are too low at all, in most cases it's the difference between 3 points in a stat, big whoop, something still does need to be done about those pokemon that need a hidden power or moving the 31 around ofc.

 

I understand prizes used to be worth a lot of money whereas now they are effectively worth max 500k due to being essentially an untradable comp, however what we have to remember we are also not having to waste however many hours or days to make that comp anymore. We changed say 2mil yen prizes to 500k + no grind. From the looks of it I may be alone in the community as I say all this but if I won a tourney I would love a shiny comp in some cases even a secret base item.

 

While I'm at it, why is it some people only play a tournament for the prize, hell I play a tournament just to have some fun with some friends and possibly have a taste at glory, this is a game after all, I'm just looking for entertainment not the cash or different coloured pixels within

 

This post was a nice one to read and I'm glad you're enjoying shiny competitives, is there anything you'd like to see changed/improved upon with the current prize system.

[PandaJJ]

I love it when people have opposed opinions, and both are wrong. I guess I like the stubbornness of refusing to compromise.

On one side I understand the decision of not giving away massive amounts of money (valuable shinies,) on the other side I understand the disappointment of getting an untradeable shiny "comp." I think the solution lies here:

 

Professional players earn trophies, ok all good, buuuuuut money too

 

Gift shinies are nice trophies, but that's really all they are. In addition to this, the winner should also recieve something of actual value, like pokeyen or battle points. This way you can adjust how much to give away, and players will actually be rewarded for winning. Additionally you can keep your untradable shiny as a trophy to show off how good you are.

[Gilvy]

Cash money prize (up to 2m seems reasonable)