Team Tournament January 2017 (Saturday 28th January)

[Torinnnnn]

11 minutes ago, SweeTforU said:

TT king

We had to let you win something TT related

[gbwead]

19 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

Something like popularity is so easy to prove. It's not exactly world view. The moment I see enough people voicing up that "I like UU and NU over Doubles" I am happy to concede that as a fact that majority of the players prefer NU or UU over Doubles. You can tag me to every single one of these posts to make sure that I'm able to see them. Or host a poll if you feel that not everyone with their opinion has voiced up in these forums. At this point I've seen you, forfie and Finn to voice up against Doubles in this thread, and in total in any thread where Doubles have been mentioned. Meanwhile the number of people that are voicing up for importance of Doubles is significantly bigger. I am not here commenting that "I personally feel that Doubles is more popular", I'm here to say that the current data is kinda against your claims. 

 

But like I said, I'm happy to be proven wrong. Any given time.

Alright, look at the first posts in this thread for instance, some people were quite happy to see there was no Doubles in this TT. Let's not forget that unpopularity is not only about people that dislike the tier, it is also about people that don't care about the tier and they are the ones that are the least likely to voice their opinion.

 

19 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

You cannot rank the formats by how much RNG affect them, especially when the RNG doesn't come from the format itself but the Pokemon in it. There's nothing inherently more RNG based in Doubles than Singles, there's just a Pokemon that has a high RNG factor is viable in Doubles metagame, which is Aerodactyl but this is due to other reasons than RNG being powerful in Doubles. You could argue that NU tournaments should be hosted more than OU tournaments because Aerodactyl exists in OU but not in lower tiers and the lower tiers do not have a such a flinch hax fisher Pokemon. And this wouldn't make more sense because a tier/format is much more than just RNG aspect.

Doubles tier mechanics apply to all pokemons in the tier, not only Aerodactyl. All moves can crit. A lot of them can miss and/or have secondary effect. Depending on the moves selected, each pokemon has a chance to benefit or suffer from RNG and, since we have 4 pokemons on the field instead of 2, the rng impact factor is far greater than in Singles. In Doubles, players have the possibility to deal enormous amount of dmg to each other with the right predictions. However, a crit/flinch/freeze can prevent a pokemon from attacking or synergizing with the other pokemon on its side which mean it will be on the receiving end of detrimental dmg without the ability to fight back because of RNG. In singles the chance of benefiting or suffering from RNG is not as great and the impact of that RNG will not be as important since the dmg output of a Single turn is not as important. 

 

19 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

What comes to "tiering policies reducing RNG based elements", it's used in very special cases like Evasion and SwaggerPlay. Comparing that to the important of formats makes no sense.

My point is that RNG does matter in determining the competitiveness of a tier and we don't have to accept a high degree of RNG just because that's the way pokemon games have been designed. Tiering is to me about removing what's wrong to create a decent competitive environment for palyers. I do not believe the Doubles tier in PokeMMO is competitively decent which is why having less Doubles in TT makes sense to me.

 

 

[RysPicz]

Beerminator drinks and knows things, read his post guys pls its worth it

 

Typing on phone so prob shitty typos

[OrangeManiac]

4 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Alright, look at the first posts in this thread for instance, some people were quite happy to see there was no Doubles in this TT. Let's not forget that unpopularity is not only about people that dislike the tier, it is also about people that don't care about the tier and they are the ones that are the least likely to voice their opinion.

I literally still see just your and forfi's post regarding this lmao

 

And honestly what difference is there between "disliking Doubles" and "not caring" for Doubles. Both are against Doubles being represented in official calendar instead of other things.

[Noad]

When you see 106 posts and you think "Did I balls up the date for registrations?" 

 

[OrangeManiac]

Just now, Noad said:

When you see 106 posts and you think "Did I balls up the date for registrations?" 

Please change the title to "Official Doubles Discussion thread (also has signups for TT)".

[gbwead]

19 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

I literally still see just your and forfi's post regarding this lmao

 

And honestly what difference is there between "disliking Doubles" and "not caring" for Doubles. Both are against Doubles being represented in official calendar instead of other things.

The difference is the people in the first category are more likely to voice their opinion about Doubles than the other category. Asking for more Doubles always mean less of something else. This is not always very clear and I think people would react more if they realised what more doubles concretly meant. Doubles is the tier with the least amount of official tournaments after LC and I hope it stays that way. I just hoped it could be the same way with TT.

Edited January 4, 2017 by gbwead

[FinnTheMember]

Lets Do Little Discussion

Topic = "Why i cant play Doubles"

Keywords = Team + Tournament

Infos =

Team; A groups of people under same tag.

Tournament; The event which sides challenge each other.

Currently TT format; 3 tiers every month, 2 tiers must win for next round. Single Eliminate.

Used Tiers at past; OU, UU, NU, Doubles.

 

Problem= TT events doing with 3 tiers application. But using 4 tiers. And we have 5 tiers now.

so problem is , Doubles stealing place of NU or UU every month. So NU or UU players dont want this.

 

Recommended solutions =

1. 5 Tiers TT; OU, UU, NU, Doubles, LC.
2. Remove Doubles Tier.

Result; If someone wants to play Doubles or LC, we must accept that because these tiers already confirmed official tiers. And if TT doing for choosing strongest team about competitive area, of course they will be at disadvantage if their one of favourite player cant play. Thats not suitable to TT's logic. So now we cant remove Doubles and

 

we cant do 4 tiers TT , right?  Still this is another question. If there is a way with 4 tiers which everybody can accept at ties. Please share this info with us. Otherwise the only way is 5 Tiers TT. Thanks for listen. I wrote every detail coz maybe someone can find an interesting solution..

 

Spoiler

SUGGESTION , as PSL, Teams Super League

 

Step 1: 16 Teams make registration.

Step 2: Groups be created with every 4 teams.

Step 3: The teams in groups play with other teams , Round Robin Format. (Round Robin= Every team plays with other 3 teams. The team with highest point is winner)

Step 4: Winners= only 4 champions from each groups comes to next week.

Step 5: Round Robin or Single Eliminate Championship between 4 champion teams.

 

Time Intervals (A month has 4 weeks)

Step 1 and 2 = First Week.

Step 3 = Second Week.

Step 4 and 5 = Third Week.

 

Others; 

1. Group champions players (final week) can win 250k each.
2. Champion team players can win 500k each. (1m better tho...)
3. Extra rule = In groups, teams can decide special rules between them at First Week (Step 1-2). Example: Lets dont play doubles. If other 3 teams accept too, its okay. But at championship , they must play 5 tiers for choosing best.

Advantages instead of TT

1. Im sure people can donate money to this event instead of current TT.
2. At current TT, if your team lose at first round , you are dead. TT is not fun for first rounded teams. And winners always alone at end of event. Thats sad. With round robin format; your team can play again if you lose too. And thats good for make practice !! And this must be fun for everyone !
3. Less Noise and Complexity. Coz everybody will play with everyone. They will know who are they next opponent and will find them. Staff can announce that before event with this style. Example; Group A battles at slateport beach. Group B battles in front of viridian. And ofc championship at Silp Co. 

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by FinnTheMember

[OrangeManiac]

1 minute ago, gbwead said:

The difference is the people in the first category are more likely to voice their opinion about Doubles than the other category. Asking for more Doubles always mean less of something else. This is not always very clear and I think people would react more if they realised what more doubles concretly meant. Doubles is the tier with the least amount of official tournaments after LC and I hope it stays that way. I just hoped it could be the same way with TT.

Ooh you mean this post. I honestly thought this post was meant to be a joke, because everyone knows you hate Doubles. It's like a meme at this point that whenever Doubles is mentioned there's gb hating it and I thought you were just making fun of that. Like, the fact you even had to voice out that you don't like seeing Doubles seemed like a joke because everyone knows you don't. Besides Finn and Forfi one or two of the likers actually liked my content as well but I don't know the way others reacted to that post but fair enough, I'll take that as a face value that they actually do not like Doubles unless they claim otherwise.

 

Also who would ask for more Doubles tournament while not liking to play Doubles over something else? If they liked something else instead it would make sense if they vouched for more officials of their tier of liking. Also I've never seen such a push for a status quo like this ever, you acknowledge that Doubles is the least played format and you still need to talk down upon Doubles like that. Like it almost feels like it isn't others starting to say "We want Doubles" and you saying "Nah, I want other things more" like it was before. Now it seems to be that you start by calling out Doubles as something bad and people commenting about your negativity towards a format.

[KingBowser]

I would like a catching event for the 3rd tier to represent all the community.

[gbwead]

7 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

Also I've never seen such a push for a status quo like this ever, you acknowledge that Doubles is the least played format and you still need to talk down upon Doubles like that. Like it almost feels like it isn't others starting to say "We want Doubles" and you saying "Nah, I want other things more" like it was before. Now it seems to be that you start by calling out Doubles as something bad and people commenting about your negativity towards a format.

Like I said already, I was intially pushing for LC in TT. 

 

Edit:

8 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

Also who would ask for more Doubles tournament while not liking to play Doubles over something else? If they liked something else instead it would make sense if they vouched for more officials of their tier of liking.

I think we might have misunderstood each other here. I was talking about people pushing for more Doubles and people that prefer other tiers not disagreeing because they don't realise what more doubles implies. 

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by gbwead

[OrangeManiac]

9 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I was talking about people pushing for more Doubles and people that prefer other tiers not disagreeing because they don't realise what more doubles implies. 

But why aren't those people preferring other tier(s) just saying they want their preferred tier to be represented? The tournament hosts would see "oh, these people like NU and these people like Doubles and these people like LC - well, we need to come up with something to balance things up!". You or anyone who "dislikes Doubles" would reach the same goal for vouching for those other tier options instead of talking down Doubles. And now, doing it like this it just honestly sparks arguments because people who like Doubles feel obliged to respond to the Doubles criticism because they feel their preferred tournament format is disrespected and undervalued and saying nothing would imply that their format of liking has no value to them either. You don't see Doubles players starting to talk down UU or NU when someone asks for a UU or NU tournament when one hasn't been there for a while just because it could take a slot from Doubles tournament. They just ask for Doubles tournaments.

[Suneet]

Summarising the last few pages: fuck off gb, doubles is a tier

[Rendiz]

Honestly this whole popularity argument really dumb, partly due to the subjective nature of the word. Are there more players who play NU and UU compared to doubles? Yes, I don't believe the difference is anywhere near what gb is making it out to be. But of the players who play the tier are the NU and UU players more passionate about the tier? In this instance I would disagree. Both can be viewed as popularity and it's distorting the argument and taking it on a worthless tangent.

 

On the second point that gb makes about doubles being less competitive, I would have to strongly disagree and it's for the same reason as why people who play doubles are more passionate about it than most UU and NU players are and that is because its a completely different format. As orange previously mentioned all the singles tiers are essentially the same with slight differences, whereas doubles is completely different format which intrinsically requires different thought processes and skill sets. In a Team Tournament which is fundamentally trying to showcase the best PokeMMO has to offer showing off player skill and tier diversity would it not therefor be beneficial to include a different and completely unique format with its only entirely different meta and skill sets?

[Bilburt]

Doubles > all

[Gunthug]

I'd like to briefly make the outrageous claim that RNG would have one less TT win if it wasn't for doubles. Schuchty tore Fred apart back in the RNG v COPE TT finals from I don't remember when (wanna say February 2015), leading to a narrow 2-1 win. Without doubles COPE definitely somehow sweeps 3-0, you cannot dispute that. So you should love doubles for that reason, @gbwead

 

Case closed 

[XPLOZ]

Nerds 

[Coge]

27 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

I'd like to briefly make the outrageous claim that RNG would have one less TT win if it wasn't for doubles. Schuchty tore Fred apart back in the RNG v COPE TT finals from I don't remember when (wanna say February 2015), leading to a narrow 2-1 win. Without doubles COPE definitely somehow sweeps 3-0, you cannot dispute that. So you should love doubles for that reason, @gbwead

 

Case closed 

How would a 2-1 win turn into 3-0 just because of one result?

[DiDi]

3 minutes ago, Coge said:

How would a 2-1 win turn into 3-0 just because of one result?

he's lying


proof:

 

32 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

 Schuchty tore Fred apart

lmao, schuchty winning 

[Coge]

Just now, DiDi said:

he's lying


proof:

 

lmao, schuchty winning 

tru

[DoubleJ]

The funny thing here, is that at the end of the day all of this bickering and whining is going to do absolutely nothing for either party. Doubles will still be a part of the TT, Doubles will continue to get shafted by not having proper representation in Official Tournaments, and Gb will still be salty. It has been fun though. 

[LuisPocho]

at this moment I´m wondering whats the difference beetween "popular" and "unpopular"...

can we have Triple Battles? 

[Laz]

So much beef for what, 750k for first place, please.

TT have such a poor prize to even argue which tiers should we play.

On another note, it is okay to switch tiers every month, even though I dislike Doubles and I prefere NU, but you gotta give other teams a chance for a rotation, the con I see is UU always being there, now that's some bias ^^

[DoubleJ]

4 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said:

So much beef for what, 750k for first place, please.

TT have such a poor prize to even argue which tiers should we play.

On another note, it is okay to switch tiers every month, even though I dislike Doubles and I prefere NU, but you gotta give other teams a chance for a rotation, the con I see is UU always being there, now that's some bias ^^

It's not the prize we play for, but the glory. 

[xStarr]

Smh should be UU out of this one..

Need to look back at dem other TTs

Edited January 4, 2017 by xStarr
So true = Page King ez