Imperial
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Posts posted by Imperial
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5 hours ago, VadimEmpoleon said:
Gallade
Now that new answers to Gallade are confirmed to be released in the upcoming updates I believe that the best thing to do is keep as it is until the new answers to Gallade are released just like Rache said.
Dugtrio and Arena Trap
When it comes to Dugtrio, I believe Dugtrio does not fit the Uber Support characteristic but is uncompetitive so Arena Trap+Dugtrio should be complex banned. I'd rather ban Arena Trap as a whole because even if Trapinch and Diglett are not very interesting mons if they get to be used with this ability they will still rely on the uncompetitive aspect of this ability which can't be consistently prevented like Pursuit or Magnet Pull. I know some will disagree with an Arena Trap ban so probably the best thing to do is the complex ban on Dugtrio because I don't think anyone would care much about Trapinch or Diglett having it. Not going to give many arguments now on why I think this way because there isn't a discussion going on for it right now. If the ban happened I totally disagree with doing any other thing that is not the Arena Trap+Dugtrio complex ban because removing moves or reducing stats seems like a more obtrusive way to me. It should also be removed from BL if AT+Dugtrio complex ban happens.
Opening a discussion for it right now seems like the best option imo. I believe there is nothing in the Tier Policies against it. It would be a good idea to add a Tier Policy that sets a period of time in which a ban can't be voted again to happen after being rejected unless important changes happen within the tier (this case) to prevent situations like this.
Shaymin
It should be retested in UU, Mandibuzz always countered it. Stalling Seed Flare was also always a good way of dealing with it. And of course Entei, Salamence, Raikou, Ninetales are now in the tier and can annoy Shaymin.
Yanmega
Like I said in the NU Discussion Thread I think the best thing is doing a suspect test for 1 month.
Rhyperior
I think this mon also deserves a suspect test, it was banned long ago and all I can see in this mon is a better Rhydon, slightly better stats and better ability.
Recovery moves PP nerf
While I understand that for consistency they have 8 PP, this affects the metagame in a bad way, this increases the viability of Regenerator mons and Wish mons which were already very viable when recovery moves had 16 PP but reduces the viability of other defensive mons, it also affects the viability of some setup sweepers like Reuniclus or Sigilyph. This change adds nothing positive. A similar case are the gems which still have their 50% boost instead of the 30% and this is a good thing because they become useless with a 30% boost. Returning the recovery moves to 16 PP is just a single change and would affect positively every tier, I believe this is a very good reason to do it.
Acupressure
This move should be included in the evasion Clause along with Minimize and Double Team.
Vaporeon
¿?
Crawdaunt
¿?
I agree with several of your points but I do disagree about Rhyperior - I remember this in NU and feel that this will still be capable of being too strong for the tier.
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5 hours ago, Imperial said:
With a very impressive base speed stat of 95, it outspeeds many of the offensive threats we have in the tier (Rotom/Rotom-F, Blaziken, Qwilfish, Braviary, Stoutland, Moltres, Kangaskhan) and speed ties with Houndoom, Sawsbuck & Drapion which is a risky 50/50. The only non-scarfers that would be faster (not including scarfers and Sharpedo with speed boost), would be Scyther, Cinccino, Charizard, Typhlosion, Galvantula, Manectric, Alakazam and potentially a few more).
It has two amazing abilities, the first one being Tinted Lens, with its already impressive 116 base special attack, we've seen how good of a wallbreaker it is in UU with Choice Specs, admittedly the only reason it dropped to NU in the first place is because of the weather MUs, Entei/Raikou and Salamence we've been consistently seeing in teams. NU, being a much more fragile tier, has several mons that will struggle to switch into this.
The special walls in the tier are the following:
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Lanturn, Altaria, Audino, Cryogonal, Gigalith, Bronzor, Lickilicky, Golbat, Mantine, Milotic, Slowking
- (apologies if I missed a few)
The most common moveset for this set would be - Bug Buzz, Air Slash, Giga Drain, Psychic (U-turn is also a very good option to pivot out and gain that momentum). However, I'll be using Bug Buzz as it's the strongest move for it considering its STAB:
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 93-109 (40 - 46.9%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 76-90 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 85-102 (40.4 - 48.5%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cryogonal: 63-75 (35.5 - 42.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 64-76 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Bronzor: 58-69 (35.3 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (once Bronzor rests it's a sitting duck)
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 79-94 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 30-36 (16.4 - 19.7%) -- 8.7% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 82-98 (45 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 60-72 (34.8 - 41.8%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 67-79 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 146-174 (72.2 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
*Bear in mind that Yanmega can also run other moves which are more effective, for example Giga Drain on Milotic and Psychic for Golbat, although it requires more prediction from the user.
As you can see, although Yanmega has a massive drawback of having a x4 weakness to rocks, the majority of its safest checks are also vulnerable to switching in safely due to their weakness to rocks. The majority of these walls are also passive (e.g. Audino/Bronzor), meaning it's difficult to chip this down without getting rocks on the Yanmega's players field. The best check would be Gigalith, but it has no self-recovery unless you want to play a niche rest set. We've suspect tested and banned Venomoth with a similar ability and sweeping potential, and we also banned Medicham for its huge wallbreaking power for the tier.
We also have AV Eelektross, Dusknoir, Druddigon & Magmortar as potential checks but as you can see they can't safely switch in:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 76-90 (50.6 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 85-102 (44.2 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dusknoir: 56-66 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Assault Vest Druddigon: 72-85 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Now let's focus on its other ability, Speed Boost. Unlike Sharpedo, Yanmega has a very high base speed where using Protect isn't mandatory compared to Sharpedo in case its outsped by faster threats like max speed Rotom, etc. Once set up, Yanmega can pretty much clean the majority of offensive Pokemon except for scarf Cincinno, Houndoom (which is rare) and potentially a few others.
(Small correction, Yanmega has the same base speed as Sharpedo but the majority of Sharpedo don't run a speed boosting nature meaning it's slower as in the examples above)
The set for this ability would be - Air Slash, Giga Drain, Bug Buzz, Psychic (swapping Giga Drain for U-Turn/Protect if needed).
This is a Pokemon where players can just brainlessly spam Bug Buzz as long as they lead correctly, pressuring several/majority of the Pokemon in a fragile tier where even Pokemon which were originally great in OU/UU (e.g. Milotic and Gigalith) can feel pressured against it.
THAT'S NOT ALL...
If we want to be really niche, Yanmega although having an average attack stat, can boost itself with Swords Dance (I know barely anyone will use this set but I thought it would be worth mentioning as it could catch people out especially with Speed Boost).
It can also tank some hits on the physical side:
252+ Atk Piloswine Ice Shard vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 72-86 (44.4 - 53%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
*Piloswine attempting to revenge kill with Ice Shard
252+ Atk Absol Sucker Punch vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 85-102 (52.4 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
*Does not kill if crit is not activated and rocks aren't set up against Yanmega
Drawbacks
It has a x4 weakness to rocks and its typing is not the best (weak to fire, electric, rock), however, its very impressive base speed/special attack, ability and decent movepool is enough to make up for its weaknesses as the majority of the tier does not want to switch into this.
Yanmega should be suspect tested at the very minimum.
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Lanturn, Altaria, Audino, Cryogonal, Gigalith, Bronzor, Lickilicky, Golbat, Mantine, Milotic, Slowking
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3 minutes ago, Rache said:
Returning it to 1.5x was the result of a 5-1 tier council vote in late November, unrelated to the legendary birds. To my understanding it was largely the belief that the initial ban/nerf was too hasty mixed with a dislike for 1.4x on principle.
We'll be introducing some more answers to Gallade with the raid update. Although we'd (devs) prefer to keep it in the tier until then to avoid the disruptive process of removing then reintroducing it soon after, the tier council is still allowed to ban it if they believe that it's too broken to wait. You're welcome to make a case for a ban in the OU discussion request thread.
Please not regen...
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1 hour ago, Munya said:
1. Make an argument for why it should forgo testing.
With a very impressive base speed stat of 95, it outspeeds many of the offensive threats we have in the tier (Rotom/Rotom-F, Blaziken, Qwilfish, Braviary, Stoutland, Moltres, Kangaskhan) and speed ties with Houndoom, Sawsbuck & Drapion which is a risky 50/50. The only non-scarfers that would be faster (not including scarfers and Sharpedo with speed boost), would be Scyther, Cinccino, Charizard, Typhlosion, Galvantula, Manectric, Alakazam and potentially a few more).
It has two amazing abilities, the first one being Tinted Lens, with its already impressive 116 base special attack, we've seen how good of a wallbreaker it is in UU with Choice Specs, admittedly the only reason it dropped to NU in the first place is because of the weather MUs, Entei/Raikou and Salamence we've been consistently seeing in teams. NU, being a much more fragile tier, has several mons that will struggle to switch into this.
The special walls in the tier are the following:
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Lanturn, Altaria, Audino, Cryogonal, Gigalith, Bronzor, Lickilicky, Golbat, Mantine, Milotic, Slowking
- (apologies if I missed a few)
The most common moveset for this set would be - Bug Buzz, Air Slash, Giga Drain, Psychic (U-turn is also a very good option to pivot out and gain that momentum). However, I'll be using Bug Buzz as it's the strongest move for it considering its STAB:
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 93-109 (40 - 46.9%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 76-90 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 85-102 (40.4 - 48.5%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cryogonal: 63-75 (35.5 - 42.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 64-76 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Bronzor: 58-69 (35.3 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (once Bronzor rests it's a sitting duck)
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 79-94 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 30-36 (16.4 - 19.7%) -- 8.7% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 82-98 (45 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 60-72 (34.8 - 41.8%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 67-79 (33.1 - 39.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 146-174 (72.2 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
*Bear in mind that Yanmega can also run other moves which are more effective, for example Giga Drain on Milotic and Psychic for Golbat, although it requires more prediction from the user.
As you can see, although Yanmega has a massive drawback of having a x4 weakness to rocks, the majority of its safest checks are also vulnerable to switching in safely due to their weakness to rocks. The majority of these walls are also passive (e.g. Audino/Bronzor), meaning it's difficult to chip this down without getting rocks on the Yanmega's players field. The best check would be Gigalith, but it has no self-recovery unless you want to play a niche rest set. We've suspect tested and banned Venomoth with a similar ability and sweeping potential, and we also banned Medicham for its huge wallbreaking power for the tier.
We also have AV Eelektross, Dusknoir, Druddigon & Magmortar as potential checks but as you can see they can't safely switch in:
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar: 76-90 (50.6 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 85-102 (44.2 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dusknoir: 56-66 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Assault Vest Druddigon: 72-85 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Now let's focus on its other ability, Speed Boost. Unlike Sharpedo, Yanmega has a very high base speed where using Protect isn't mandatory compared to Sharpedo in case its outsped by faster threats like max speed Rotom, etc. Once set up, Yanmega can pretty much clean the majority of offensive Pokemon except for scarf Cincinno, Houndoom (which is rare) and potentially a few others.
(Small correction, Yanmega has the same base speed as Sharpedo but the majority of Sharpedo don't run a speed boosting nature meaning it's slower as in the examples above)
The set for this ability would be - Air Slash, Giga Drain, Bug Buzz, Psychic (swapping Giga Drain for U-Turn/Protect if needed).
This is a Pokemon where players can just brainlessly spam Bug Buzz as long as they lead correctly, pressuring several/majority of the Pokemon in a fragile tier where even Pokemon which were originally great in OU/UU (e.g. Milotic and Gigalith) can feel pressured against it.
THAT'S NOT ALL...
If we want to be really niche, Yanmega although having an average attack stat, can boost itself with Swords Dance (I know barely anyone will use this set but I thought it would be worth mentioning as it could catch people out especially with Speed Boost).
It can also tank some hits on the physical side:
252+ Atk Piloswine Ice Shard vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 72-86 (44.4 - 53%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
*Piloswine attempting to revenge kill with Ice Shard
252+ Atk Absol Sucker Punch vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 85-102 (52.4 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
*Does not kill if crit is not activated and rocks aren't set up against Yanmega
Drawbacks
It has a x4 weakness to rocks and its typing is not the best (weak to fire, electric, rock), however, its very impressive base speed/special attack, ability and decent movepool is enough to make up for its weaknesses as the majority of the tier does not want to switch into this.
Yanmega should be suspect tested at the very minimum.
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Lanturn, Altaria, Audino, Cryogonal, Gigalith, Bronzor, Lickilicky, Golbat, Mantine, Milotic, Slowking
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I've seen some really good suggestions raised here and on Discord and I know a few people are already planning out some great ideas for a future PSL.
I think the main thing people should focus on is bringing back the identify that PSL had - high-quality players, high-quality matches, memorable teams, drama, with hopefully a return of many older players.
Keep up the comments everyone, all input is appreciated.
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1 hour ago, Quinn010 said:
in my opinion the current problem with psl is that it change way to much for a tournament that is once a year. This is like my 4th psl? and every psl is different where the host decide how he will roll with it wich is in my opinion a wierd approach.
I Believe that something PSL is missing what it really stand for. I have seen different opions about the tournament. Some people want less teams to make it more elite and some people want more teams to let more people in. we also have gimmicks every psl to make ''fun'? wich kinda defeats the point of a elite tournament? but also sub rules to make sure we get the best competition? We as a community need to make a choice do we want a competitive event or more a entertaining event because right now we have a mix wich clearly is a bit messed up.
From when I joined the game i always saw PSL as the biggest pokemmo tournament where the best players compete and i hoped i could say its stil is. Right now the chips system is a fun idea but I dont see the point of it. The first time i saw this idea I thought myself what is the idea behind this change? was this something we really needed ? Does it really add something to the tournament? And to awnser that i don't think it does. The week my team used the chip i have seen a 6-0 doubles match where a doubles player played agaisnt someone inexperienced not really what i would have liked to see in a tournament where the best players compete and are aiming to show qaulity matches. I assume the idea was to make it harder for the manager to plan or something in those lines but i believe drafting the right players for the right slots and making sure they win is already hard enough for a manager adding these gimmicks just defeat the purpose of PSL and dont create any "hype'' no one cares about the chip system.
Then we also have manager choices wich i think it is a cool idea but on paper doesn't work at all you usually throw someone in that slot hoping he can secure the win and if they lose its not a big problem because its just the opposing manager choice you usually see inexperienced players take this slot or players that dont even want to play the tier but are forced to play it. Having reguluar 6/8 slots is enough i managed myself and altough I didnt win it I know that planning a good manager choice plan is not the only succes to win and doesn't add anything competitive to it. For managing purpose it only lose a competitive spirit and for playing purpose again it doens't add any 'hype' no one says oh wow PoseidonWrath vs QuinnW in the manager choice slot because no one simply care about it.
So my proposal is: To make PSL The same tournament every year with a council For example Gbwead, Imperial and others that want to join make this 1 player per team to avoid other players brining influence and maybe add X amount of psls needed to be played to really let experienced players vote when needed (realistically this council wont have much power they only approve suggestions posted in the feedback and suggestion thread) make a thread like this every end of the season where we recieve feedback and can changes things if needed. And remove Manager choice and other gimmicks wich are supposed to make it fun when the real fun is in players playing in the tier they like to play so that we keep psl more simple just in a competitve format.
2 add my 2 cents to the format from playoffs i have played many tournaments on smogon where top 4 out of 8 advance but they make use of 1 point a tie 2 points for a win and with the many tours i played and many teams i played that didnt make playoffs we usually had a chance till week 6/7 so thats something to consider. Altough I think that psl really improve if we keep it more simple and aim for more qaulity and dont change the event every year so i dont really care that much how playoffs work just make sure we don't get a psl that take months .I think you made some really great points. The first is we should probably start focusing on quality over quantity. I also like the idea of having a council, ideally with previous hosts from PSL and other major tournaments who have experience in how things should be run.
The point system is also a good idea and likely avoids teams getting eliminated too early in the competition.
39 minutes ago, Luke said:I agree with the reintroduction of showdown tiers but it should be 6 slots a week. Not more, I swear I watch some games and the quality and standard is fantastic, then I watch others and it's like I'm watching randoms at verm play. I used to be anti smogon tiers but I have to say the high level, hype and amount of viewers the DPP games got every time (60-80) without fail really solidified the need to have this as the format because clearly there is a large interest to watch such games.
I'd advise this being the format:
OUUU
NU
LC
Dubs
Showdown Tier (voted on by community)
or
OU
OU
UUNU
LC
Dubs
(If democracy votes against a showdown tier)
Fuck manager choice, it adds a lot of random-ness and I think it makes it harder for new managers to run their team well.. I also think Quinn makes a great point that we need to stop messing around with the PSL format. I will be honest, I considered managing this season but after seeing all these weird rules, gimmicks and things that can go wrong I decided not to. I imagine others felt the same way considering we are missing a ton of players in this PSL who usually play.
I also think solidifying the 8 teams to have a specific mascot is a good idea as it brings upon pre established teams and a sort of history for each, the names can be changed but the mascot must remain. Something like this. I also think retains should be considered and managers should always be able to self buy but with a weighted system dependent on a few factors; for example enchanteur can not self buy himself for 10c it would be weighted based upon his overall performance, previous sale price and previous records for something like 23c (example)
Edit: also add SEVERE punishments for coaching / ghosting. No slap on the wrists, don't permit it. MMO culture is soo heavy on coaching I really dislike it and I think we can do something about it in PSL & similar events for sure.
Edit edit: ALSO HOSTS SHOULD GET PAID!!!!! Not some tiny weeny sum im talking 20m for a season.
TLDR:
6 Slots a week, stop changing the PSL format. Bring back showdown tiers. Really punish coaching, pay hosts.Some suggestions I really love which I will include and credit in the main thread which are:
- Reducing the number of slots to hopefully only focus on higher quality matches
- I think getting rid of Manager Choice could be a good idea and I've seen some others suggest this - I think we could replace this with Showdown tiers
- I really like the idea of having pre-established teams and a specific mascot, maybe this could potentially be decided by the previous winners of PSL with some input from certain members of the PSL community
- I also agree about the coaching rule, although this will be really difficult to monitor especially with Discord servers etc.
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1 hour ago, LeJovi said:
I agree with everything but the PSL format.
I believe we could make it a smaller, more exclusive event where we can see top quality in every match. We all know there are players who get drafted just because... not really because they have the level to compete in PSL. And we see evidence of that every season.
I think 6 teams, 8 tiers (or less, not sure about Manager Choices either) would be fine, making the event move faster, be more exclusive, and not get boring at times like we all know it does. This would assure that only the best of the best play this event (or at least who managers believe are the best).
If you're a new player you have plenty of chances to get noticed by managers before the event starts, like scrim sessions, winning tournaments, etc. Maybe it would even motivate newer players to get better faster.
In this case, we could have midseason, since probably some players will go undrafted and maybe a manager can see value in taking someone from the pool to help his team or make it stronger, still unsure about it tho because it's very hard to make it work for everyone + still be fair.
I do believe whichever seed is higher during regular season should get some sort of advantage come playoffs time, maybe then we could introduce MC or something else.
Lineups are a huge problem, and imo they can be fixed easily with a Discord Bot, it would only take a bit of time/programming to accomplish this and it would remove a huge headache for everyone.
I also like what you said about managers having some sort of activity throughout the season, it would encourage them to stay in touch and not just send lineups and go AFK the rest of the time.
I do agree about having consistent high-quality matches, admittedly the player pool hasn't been the best this year compared to previous editions and the same with the matches, but I understand that there's a huge amount of pressure in these type of competitions especially when you have to play the deciding match for your team.
About the new players, I'm a bit mindful about this as there's a lot of players new and old who may not have the time or resources to enter multiple tournaments, so a potential alternative could be that each manager opens up a tryout server where potential players battle the manager to try and prove they deserve to get picked.
Midseason will need careful consideration and obviously it's almost impossible to control who from outside the competition will be helping teams behind the scenes, etc.
The line up issue I hope would be easier to resolve with the implementation of a co-host & council which also considers other factors such as timezones but otherwise a bot would be the most sufficient solution.
I appreciate the comment about managers - I feel it makes things more interesting instead of them picking particular players to play, it also makes sure that they're active and in-touch with the current meta as well.
1 hour ago, skyluxNG said:Awesome idea but I don't see working for something like lc which you have no ladder or no tours whatsoever. If you would like to include some of the tours made by the lcpl community is fine I just would say the level is pretty mid overall unless you see already established players. Same thing goes to showdown tiers imo, you don't know who is good or bad unless you follow closely smogon people which most likely be the same players that has been there for years (possibly adding good PokeMMO players that could adapt fast to these tiers without problem). It reduces the chances of new people to come in and show what they are made of giving us the same matches probably all the time if the same players sign up and get picked.
I feel that managers being forced to implement tryout servers would help resolve this issue. If they are not available to play matches then they could nominate a few players to help battle and decide on their behalf, but this will need careful consideration as to how best implement this.
48 minutes ago, gbwead said:I'm not a big fan of the player sign up template that was used:
Imo, Time Zone, Discord and Donation are not really useful.
I would go for something like this instead:
I like the idea of the new template and I've seen Smogon league tournaments implement this sort of idea as well. I think it would be good for people to take the fluff seriously and convince managers to pick them, how would be a different story.
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Hello,
I appreciate that it's the middle of the regular season of PSL XVI as I write this but I thought it would be a good idea to gather feedback from the community regarding this PSL edition and also look at suggestions for the next one (whoever would be keen to host it).
I'll share my views:
Pros
- I thought it was nice to have a variety of managers involved, including giving a debut to managers like NecasInTrouble and Wallarro - it shows that the competitive community is willing to continue giving new people a chance to showcase their managerial skills in the biggest unofficial tournament
- Drama was identified and dealt with pretty quickly (e.g. the Brumoso incident), although it could have potentially been dealt with more smoothly (e.g. Not suspending Necas)
- New players were able to debut in their first PSL season (e.g. LiveLaughHate amongst others)
- The chips were a nice incentive and had that surprise factor against opposing teams
Cons
- I believe that Doc doing most of the stuff on his own wasn't a good idea considering his commitments - these sort of events always need help as it's incredibly time-consuming
- Although the chips were a good incentive, I believe that this alongside the point above caused line-ups to be submitted and weekly line-ups to be posted slightly late
- The fact that players could leave a team that was eliminated during the regular season and join a team to increase their chances at winning seems a bit unfair - I believe you should stick with your team until the very end unless a midseason draft occurs, as it's the player and manager's responsibility to motivate the team. Although both managers had to agree to the trade, I feel players should stick with that team regardless
- Some of the draft picks weren't the best compared to previous seasons
- PSL is starting to lose its identity as the years go on. It used to be known as the competition for only the most elite and top players in the game but admittedly the quality has been decreasing over time. Although there are still some great quality matches, the overall quality has definitely reduced.
To be updated as the season progresses.
Now onto my suggestions for a future PSL...
Timeline
- General Thread to be posted at the beginning of October (enough time to collect donations and build hype)
- Manager/Player registrations to be posted on the second week of November (Manager sign-ups open for one week, player sign-ups open for two weeks)
- Auction to take place on the last Saturday/Sunday of November
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Regular season to take place from the first week of December, with one of the following formats:
- Seven week round-robin, each team will play each other once. A team will receive 3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie and 0 points for a loss. 6 teams would qualify for the playoffs.
- Two groups consisting of four teams each (the teams will be chosen at random) - each team will play each other twice, lasting for six weeks. A team will receive 3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie and 0 points for a loss. The top two teams from each group would qualify for the playoffs (4 in total), or the top three from each group qualifying (6 in total) but the teams finishing top automatically receiving a bye until the semifinals.
- Playoffs would take place from January and conclude in February (around CNY event time)
Manager selection
- There would be a variety of managers picked varying from those who have gained multiple tournament wins, competed in PSL or those who haven't managed before but may have the skills required to take on the role
Player selection
One of the following options:
- All players who signed up regardless of quality will be considered for the draft
- Implement a certain criteria for players to be drafted to ensure consistent high-quality matches - credit to @LeJovi for the suggestion
Tiers
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Reintroduce showdown tiers, with a vote between:
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SV OU, SM OU, ORAS OU, DPP OU, ADV OU, VGC
- If this is not possible then potentially a separate tournament where MMO players would exclusively participate in showdown tiers to prove their skills (e.g. A Smogon based PSL purely aimed at MMO players)
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SV OU, SM OU, ORAS OU, DPP OU, ADV OU, VGC
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Regular Season
- 8 Tiers - OU, OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, MC, MC
- 10 Tiers - OU, OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, MC, MC, Showdown tier, Showdown tier
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6 Tiers - OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, Showdown Tier - Credit to @Luke
- There is a consideration to get rid of Manager Choice for future PSL's as there are no great benefits and it risks inexperienced players being slotted in that spot instead of being able to showcase their full potential.
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Playoff Season
- Same as above, but in the event of a tie managers will battle in the following tiers (OU, MC, MC)
General
- Chips would be abandoned
- Introduce a co-host and PSL Council to ensure that the event runs smoothly throughout, line ups/deadlines are handled quicker and to help if any incidents/drama occurs
- Disable trades during the season as teams that are already eliminated (e.g. RDL's team) can put other teams at an advantage/disadvantage, since in theory, RDL's team may not need to try anymore compared to previous weeks
- Allow a midseason draft from week 5/6 onwards to give undrafted players or players who missed the original deadline to join if they want. Managers would be given a certain number of credits unrelated to the original draft to bid on these players.
- Managers to potentially battle each other to decide potential tiebreakers during playoffs (assuming they are not allowed to play again).
- Having pre-established teams with a consistent mascot for each PSL - Credit to @Luke
- Removing Manager Choices as a tier and replacing this with Showdown tiers or removing these altogether - Credit to @Luke @Quinn010
- Make sure that coaching, if caught, is severely punished to try and deter players from attempting to do so.
Betting
- Betting threads to be reintroduced in the Unofficial Tournaments section for PSL, due to a number of people not realising about the Club section and engagement being lower than previous years
Additional
- Try and bring back Kyu OT Pokemon or other staff prizes as an extra incentive for MvPs and media recorders - Credit to @Axelgor for the idea
This just came to my head right now so wanted to share, but I'd like to emphasise that this does not mean I'm planning to host the next PSL, more that I thought it would be good to get feedback and ideas in as soon as possible so that we can avoid any delays like this year.
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Week 5
Inazuma Eleeveen () vs () Cinderace Flame Knights
OU: Pablobacas vs Zokuru
OU: syxkl vs miloticc
UU: PoseidonWrath vs Umbralol
NU: iHavsik vs Chronorike
Dubs: Edstorm vs iKillua
LC: Gasyflour vs Darkquiler
MC 1: CarolML vs Sweetforu (UU)
MC 2: YJos vs Chuckunso (OU)
Chattering Chatot () vs () Straw Hat Crew
OU: ArtOfKilling vs Sannuo
OU: Chintsuru vs Bobilu
UU: Nestymore vs lovenimeiyitian
NU: Wolfangt vs DrTylerGrey
Dubs: Gabuchox vs Godxebec
LC: Smadagos vs Skylux
MC 1: iLatios vs Fefeco (NU)
MC 2: ChristianAcre vs Elvesss (OU)
Throwing Tyrantrum () vs () Surging Urshifus
OU: qqqianx vs ForFour
OU: ZioMOJI vs dshadd
UU: TohnR vs tykd
NU: xLunethx vs woxiangsinile
Dubs: Mislandier vs lovesinile
LC: TheDH vs Asmodeusro
MC 1: Mkns vs xiabanwanwan (OU)*
MC 2: DoubleJ vs ZirealCiri (OU)*
Vodka Juniors () vs () Nickitis in Paras
OU: Juanchoqui vs LiveLaughHate
OU: JorgeFirebolt vs Azphiel
UU: Forfiter vs Flacusaurio
NU: JasonSparrowX vs drewq
Dubs: Joalza vs Razachu
LC: WarwitoX vs QuinnW
MC 1: Lachidrago vs Sargeste(NU)
MC 2: UT vs Akarukokuyo (DUBS)
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Week 5
#ElvesssIsABot #Week6When #Umbralol #BadHost #RipRDL #WeddingBeforeWeek5 #illegaltrading #MidSeasonWhen
If you recorded a PSL duel, please post it on the media channel on the discord
Notes:
- LC players are encouraged to join the Little Cup Club and take notice of the tier clauses and banlist. Screenshots of teams to @TheDH on the discord for usage tracking please
If you have any questions, ask your manager or check the general thread.
Inazuma Eleeveen (4) vs (3) Cinderace Flame Knights
OU: Pablobacas vs Zokuru
OU:
syxklSebat vs miloticcUU: PoseidonWrath vs Umbralol
NU: iHavsik vs Chronorike
Dubs: Edstorm vs iKillua
LC: Gasyflour vs Darkquiler
MC 1: CarolML vs Sweetforu (UU)
MC 2: YJos vs Chuckunso (OU)
*Inazuma Eleeveen used chip 1 - See your opposing managers lineup prior to the week being announced, if both opposing managers use this both of the chips are wiped out and void
Chattering Chatot (5) vs (3) Straw Hat Crew
OU: ArtOfKilling vs Sannuo
OU: Chintsuru vs Bobilu
UU: Nestymore vs lovenimeiyitian
NU: Wolfangt vs DrTylerGrey
Dubs: Gabuchox vs Godxebec
LC: Smadagos vs Skylux
MC 1: iLatios vs Fefeco (NU)
MC 2: ChristianAcre vs Elvesss (OU)
*Straw Hat Crew used chip 1 - See your opposing managers lineup prior to the week being announced, if both opposing managers use this both of the chips are wiped out and void
Throwing Tyrantrum (4) vs (4) Surging Urshifus
OU: qqqianx vs ForFour
OU: ZioMOJI vs dshadd
UU: TohnR vs tykd
NU: xLunethx vs woxiangsinile
Dubs: Mislandier vs xigbaar
lovesinileLC: TheDH vs Asmodeusro
MC 1: Mkns vs xiabanwanwan (OU)*
MC 2: DoubleJ vs ZirealCiri (OU)*
*Surging Urshifus have activated Chip 3 - both Manager picks go to them
Vodka Juniors (3) vs (5) Nickitis in Paras
OU: Juanchoqui vs LiveLaughHate
OU: JorgeFirebolt vs Azphiel
UU: Forfiter vs Flacusaurio
NU:
JasonSparrowXBadButWin vs drewqDubs: Joalza vs Razachu
LC: WarwitoX vs QuinnW
MC 1: Lachidrago vs Sargeste (NU)
MC 2:
UTClayClover vs Akarukokuyo (DUBS)Due to Week 5 being posted late, the deadline for matches to be played will be Monday 22 April, 11.59pm UTC
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17 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:
This is still open? Well, let's see how this suspect ends. I wonder when people will realize that Entei is just a Weaker Arcanine...
Yea, you didn't read my opinion wrong. What entei Has is just Sacred Fire and a bit of extra stats, but on Everything else, Arcanine is far superior. It has a better coverage, mostly remarkable Close Combat and Wild Charge, and two abilitys that are better. Not saying pressure is bad, but comparing it with Intimidate/Flash Fire is compare a Storm with an tornado.
"Entei is just a weaker Arcanine"... I'm sorry, I don't ever remember people complaining about Arcanine or it ever getting suspect tested.
And you wondered on another thread why people just ignore what you say, just play the tier and stop coming up with nonsense.
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6 hours ago, DeusBruno said:
I thought about raikou and entei alongside snorlax but that would give the winners an hard time choosing 😕
Even for Seasonals there are limitations, in my opinion these were the best options I had at the moment or close to it, and respecting your opinion, I think they are cool.I didn't mean to that extent, I meant how OU have had stuff like Shiny Volcarona and Dubs had Shiny Metagross for their seasonals, maybe we could potentially have a similar rare shiny like Eevee(?), Spiritomb, Rotom, etc - but Snorlax and Flygon especially are pretty cool shiny's and I understand that admins have the final say.
I'm sorry I didn't mean to come across as harsh, I'm grateful that there is a seasonal tournament and that you are hosting it.
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9 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:
Man, that happens always with me, i can write an essay of 85 lines, they will search and quote only what they found to blame me, even if it's just one of the 85 lines. If they don't found anything then they won't answer. (Did you see the argument about Wish TP i did on April Movement thread? Since there was NOTHING they founded to blame me they just straight shut up.) About the moves i legit forgot about QD but there didn't change the situation. Bug is literally the Opposite of Ice, is good defensively but bad offensively(Ice is good Offensively and Terrible Defensively) , just have like 5 good moves to any offense and that's it.
I think the issue is that you've built a negative reputation for yourself where you only want to be heard, ignoring whatever comments and feedback other people have directly responded to you in the past, derailing threads and continuously quoting people (even when requested to stop), so you can't really complain when people do the same to you and automatically disregard points you make.
The main tier I've seen you play is OU and sometimes NU, yet you make points on subjects related to UU. It's probably best to do your research, look at statistics in game and actively get involved in those tiers instead of just playing hypothetical scenarios. Theorycrafting can only get you so far...
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Week 4
Straw Hat Crew () vs () Nickitis in Paras
OU: Sannuo vs Azphiel
OU: Dlunaj vs LiveLaughHate
UU: Zanderson vs Flacusaurio
NU: Drtylergrey vs DrewQ
Dubs: Jhowteon vs Akarukokuyo
LC: Skylux vs QuinnW
MC 1: Elvesssss vs Sargeste (OU)
MC 2: GodXebec vs Konishiwa (NU)
Throwing Tyrantrum () vs () Cinderace Flame Knights
OU: ZioMOJI vs Zokuru
OU: qqqianx vs miloticc
UU: TohnR vs Umbramol
NU: xLunethx vs Sweetforu
Dubs: Mislandier vs iKilluactivitywin
LC: Cristi vs Darkquiler
MC 1: Incineroar vs Chuckunso (DUBS) ***
MC 2: DoublrJ vs Hellskream (OU) ***
Surging Urshifus () vs () Chattering Chatot
OU: ZireaelCiri vs Artofkilling
OU: Kxiv vs Yaser
UU: tykd vs NestyMore
NU: Woxiangsinile vs xJossue
Dubs: Lovesinile vs Gabuchox
LC: Asmodeusro vs Smadagos
MC 1: Forfour vs TheDH *** (LC)
MC 2: Xiabanwanwan vs Wolfangt (NU)
Vodka Juniors () vs () Inazuma Eleeveen
OU: WarwitoX vs Pablobacas
OU: ChristianArce vs Poseidonwrath
UU: Forfiter vs CarolML
NU: Tawlaa vs IHavsik
Dubs: UT vs Edstorm
LC: Nagahex vs Gasyflour
MC 1: Lachidrago vs Shellicent (UU)
MC 2: Joalza vs Yjos (DUBS)
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2 hours ago, SakuyaZ said:
Please release fariy type at the same time 🙂
As much as fairy types are cool, I honestly don't see a reason for MMO to implement this unless they ever decide to introduce gen 6 mons & moves alongside adjusting the steel weakness/resistance chart. Right now the main fairy types we would get would be...
- Clefairy/Clefable
- Azumarill
- Gardevoir
- Togekiss
- Granbull
- Wigglytuff
- Ninetales
- Mr Mime
- Mawile
- Whimsicott
- (and maybe a few more?)
From a PvP perspective, the main meta influencing Pokemon would be Clefable (will likely see a significant increase in usage for OU to deal with dragons), Togekiss, Azumarill and potentially Whimsicott for doubles. I don't really see many mons that would benefit from a PvE perspective.
I feel there aren't really any benefits for adding Fairy types right now, and Orange perfectly explained the issue with Knock Off (e.g. In the newer gens CB Crawdaunt with Knock Off is insane, for example).
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Team: Moo
Team Tag: [Moo]
Team Players: Cow, Moo, Cowe
Team Captain: Cow
- Razachu, Matthzinxl, PoseidonWrath and 3 others
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1
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2
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54 minutes ago, PinkWings said:
IGN: PinkWings
PVP experience: played on and off for yearsPreferred Tiers: Dubs
The pro is back
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6 hours ago, TohnR said:
Honest question why host so many tours at 3pm UTC ?
Not just talking about you but staff in general...
It's not typically a good time for EU/America as they are working hours and also not a good time for China because starting at 11pm is really late (likely ending at 2am+).Altho I see plenty of signups today (maybe 100+ ?) so that must mean this time is suitable for many.
Someone enlighten me on the reason ?
+1
I feel that the majority of tours that are held at this time during a weekday should be non-shiny tours with the occasional shiny.
Personally I think it should be...
Weekdays: Between 5pm-12am UTC
Saturday/Sunday: Combination between 1-4pm and 5pm-12am UTC
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Welcome back chicken, we missed you
- YourAngst, Doctor and JurassicMick
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WEEK 2
Inazuma Eleeveen vs Chattering Chatot
OU: Syxkl vs Chintsuru
OU: Pablobacas vs Artofkilling
UU: Poseidonwrath vs Nestymore
NU: Uor vs Wolfangt
Dubs: Yjos vs Gabuchox
LC: Gasyflour vs TheDH
MC 1: CarolML vs YaseerAL
MC 2: IHavsil vs xJossue
Throwing Tyrantrum vs Vodka Juniors
OU: Qqqianx vs Christianarce
OU: ZioMoji vs Juanchoqui
UU: Mkns vs JasonSparrowX
NU: Facursa vs Tawlaa
Dubs: Mislandier vs UT
LC: Cristi vs Navetas
MC 1: Ilatios vs Forfiter (NU)
MC 2: Incineroar vs Joalza (Dubs)
Nickitis in Paras vs Cinderace Flame Knights
OU: Azphiel vs Iloveubro
OU: Aerun vs Whated
UU: Flacusaurio vs Umbramol
NU: DrewQ vs Sweetforu
Dubs: AkaruKoyuko vs Killua
LC: QuinnW vs Quiler
MC 1: Razachu vs Hellskream (Dubs)
MC 2: BeRoyy (TehKharma) vs Hitmonleefigths (Dubs) ***
Surging Urshifus vs Straw Hat Crew
OU: ZirealCiri vs Elvesss
OU: Kxiv vs Sannuo
UU: Tykd vs LoveNiMeiYiTian
NU: Woxiangsinile vs DrTylerGrey
Dubs: lovesinile vs GodXebec
LC: forfour vs Skylux
MC 1: siyuex vs Jhowteon (Dubs)
MC 2: dshadd vs BMTirpitz** (Dubs)
[Team Tag tournament] Time to retire 50M Prizepool! (Sunday, 28th April)
in Unofficial Events
Posted
Don't ask me to join your team again, thanks xo