Azphiel Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 What is this ? This thread is being opened to discuss Crawdaunt and its dominant existence in the UnderUsed Tier (UU) during this month where it has been tested in the Tier. Characteristics : -Crawdaunt's great attack stat paired with its recently released hidden ability (Adaptability) allows it to be a devastating and centralizing wallbreaker in the UU meta. There are barely any Pokemon that are able to switch without risking to get 2 Hit KO'd or chasing it out of the field. On top of that, Crawdaunt has access to 2 good setup moves : Swords Dance and Dragon Dance. -Crawdaunt is however quite frail and slow; when it is invested in speed, it is still able to outspeed any defensive Pokemon (with an Adamant nature) except Golbat. Most offensive Pokemon outspeed Crawdaunt. To compensate, Crawdaunt has access to Aqua Jet, a priority move that benefits Adaptability, and a setup move that can raise its speed : Dragon Dance (Jolly Crawdaunt outspeeds the whole UU Tier at +1 speed, except Durant) Adaptability : This Pokemon's moves that match one of its types have a same-type attack bonus (STAB) of 2 instead of 1.5. As of now, Crawdaunt has 17.18% usage for 59.72% winrate. It forced most teams to use the most reliable checks, being Toxicroak (24.89% usage for 57.59% winrate) and Poliwrath (12.17% usage for 61.01% winrate). Rotom-Mow also rose in popularity partly because it is a great Pokemon to have in order to revengekill Crawdaunt. Calcs : Choice Band : Spoiler Toxicroak : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 101-119 (63.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 150-178 (94.3 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO Poliwrath : 252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 79-94 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Tangrowth : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 90-106 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO Vaporeon : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 138-164 (58.2 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Quagsire : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 114-136 (56.4 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Gastrodon : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 130-154 (59.6 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Golbat : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 106-126 (58.2 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Umbreon : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 120-142 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 144-170 (71.2 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Bronzong : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 94-112 (54 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Mandibuzz : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 124-148 (57.1 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Forretress : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 102-122 (56 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Rotom-Heat : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 136-164 (86.6 - 104.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO Flygon : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 86-102 (55.4 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Medicham : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham: 90-106 (66.6 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Machamp : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Machamp: 86-102 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage (Could be invested in bulk) Heracross : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 90-106 (58 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage Arcanine : -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 116-140 (70.3 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Sharpedo : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 72-85 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO Yanmega : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 80-96 (49.6 - 59.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO Sigilyph : 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 86-102 (58.5 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Swords Dance (+Life Orb) : Spoiler Flygon : +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 148-177 (95.4 - 114.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO Medicham : +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham: 156-185 (115.5 - 137%) -- guaranteed OHKO Machamp : +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Machamp: 146-174 (88.4 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (Could be invested in bulk) Heracross : +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 156-185 (100.6 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO Sharpedo : +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 123-146 (84.8 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Yanmega : +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 140-166 (86.9 - 103.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO Sigilyph : +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 148-177 (100.6 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO Dragon Dance (+Life Orb) : Spoiler Flygon : +1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 203-239 (130.9 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO +1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 101-122 (65.1 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Medicham : +1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham: 211-250 (156.2 - 185.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO +1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham: 107-127 (79.2 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Machamp : +1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Machamp: 101-120 (61.2 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage (Could be invested in bulk) Heracross : +1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 265-312 (170.9 - 201.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO +1 252 Atk Life Orb Crawdaunt Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 317-374 (204.5 - 241.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO +1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 107-127 (69 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage Sharpedo : +1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 169-199 (116.5 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO Yanmega : +1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 190-226 (118 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO Sigilyph : +1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 406-478 (276.1 - 325.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO Sets on Crawdaunt : Choice Band - Crabhammer; Crunch; Aqua Jet; Close Combat/Aerial Ace Life Orb/Mystic Water - Crabhammer; Crunch; Aqua Jet; Close Combat/Aerial Ace Life Orb/Mystic Water - Swords Dance; Crabhammer; Crunch; Aqua Jet Life Orb/Mystic Water - Dragon Dance; Crabhammer; Crunch; Aqua Jet/Close Combat/Aerial Ace Always Adamant nature, except for the Dragon Dance set (Jolly) Aerial Ace is an option as it allows Crawdaunt to hit super effectively a very common check : Toxicroak. Notable checks/counters : -Impish Poliwrath (The most reliable counter there is in the tier, this Pokemon rose from NU to become a defensive staple in UU. Its great bulk, Water Absorb ability and dark resist allows it to switch on Crawdaunt without much risks, but it could still be dangerous if there are hazards on the field). -Toxicroak (An offensive check that can afford tanking one hit thanks to Dry Skin and its fighting type, and can chase Crawdaunt out. It is the 2nd most used Pokemon in the tier when it was 16th last month). -Tangrowth (Its very strong defensive stats allow it to switch safely on any Crawdaunt attack as long as there are no hazards on the field or Crunch doesn't drop its defense stat). -Multiple Water Absorb Pokemons such as Vaporeon, Quagsire, Jellicent, Gastrodon (Storm Drain). These would not live 2 hits if they switch on a choice banded Crunch. -Mandibuzz (Provides a reliable dark resist that can also chip Crawdaunt with Rocky Helmet. It would dislike switching on a Crabhammer). -Rocky Helmet Druddigon, with its Rough Skin ability, can deal a lot of damage to Crawdaunt when it gets hit, while also tanking the Crabhammers nicely. Feel free to give your input on the subject. TohnR, Munya, epicdavenport and 7 others 8 1 1 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 It is good to mention that of the two most viable checks, Toxicroak and Poliwrath, one of them (Poliwrath) it's on a lot of UU teams because it has the most favorable Matchup against Feraligatr's most popular 3 sets, as well as being a check to Crawdaunt, but nothing else. I don't see too much poliwrath before those two enter on meta. Link to comment
TohnR Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 Good thread, should ban. Don't think there is much to add to the OP Zokuru 1 Link to comment
skyluxNG Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 (edited) I don't think there is too much to discuss when you actually see that KOs most of the possible counters. It does limit a lot the teambuilding due to its existence in the tier because you always need toxicroak or poliwrath to "handle it". (Should be ban) Edited November 27, 2022 by skyluxNG Link to comment
Zokuru Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Not ban. There's a lot of Water threats in the tier, and Crawdaunt is way less potent then Feraligatr and Blastoise which are both big threats to Offense AS WELL AS to stall. Both can sweep entiere teams by themself, while Crawdaunt is often gonna be offensively checked by a lot, and probably trade himself into something. Stall teams are also quite able to handle it due to low speed and unideal coverage and average to low damage on non STAB moves. The reason Crawdaunt is used a lot is that it's easier to put into a team and because people love to use new shit that hits hard, but it's nowhere near banworthy and it's even a welcomed addition to the tier. Fera and Blastoise are way more problematic and should be looked into instead. SweeTforU, HumongousNoodle, AwaXGoku and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment
TohnR Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 (edited) Blatant lie @Zokuru Feraligatr's most effective sets lose (or at least can lose) to every other water threat and as you mentionned there are plenty in the metagame Blastoise on the special side is a completely different type of mon checked by different stuff than what Crawdaunt/Sharpedo/Feraligatr are, so sort of can't compare the 2 of them Blastoise on the physical side is not problematic in any way Would you be so kind as to name mons that can offensively check Crawdaunt that can't offensively check Feraligatr since you're claiming it's easier to offensively check Crawdaunt as far as I understand ? I see potentially Rotom Mow that would fear DDance + Icepunch from Feral but doesn't fear setup from Crawdaunt as much, but that's about it. I would actually claim that more mons are able to offensively check Feraligatr due to its much weaker Aqua Jet, should refer to Azphiel's +2 jet calcs for that aspect Edited November 29, 2022 by TohnR AwaXGoku 1 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Tbh I wouldn't compare Craw to Gatr and Stoise. Craw does not need setup to be really threatening and it's most prominent and dangerous set is CB, Gatr and Stoise need to set up to become serious threats and both are getting shut down by Vaporeon/ Unaware Quag unless some mad rng zap cannon/ natural gift. I dunno honestly about Craw in UU because it seems more dangerous in OU actually, but I've been away from comp for too long to give a more experience-based argument (currently this is all based on matches I have spectated) Link to comment
Umbramol Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Crawdaunt should be banned. I've given my thoughts about why on other threads, plus the ones that have spoken in this thread covered most of the reasons why it should be. Link to comment
Azphiel Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 It seems now inevitable that Salamence will drop given its current usage. Perhaps it could help against Crawdaunt? Bold mence switches on it nicely If Salamence gets banned from UU, I would prefer Crawdaunt being banned too. Never has the tier been centralized that much around one mon until very recently. Porygon Z doesn't even seem close to me in terms of centralization. Link to comment
Umbramol Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 26 minutes ago, Azphiel said: It seems now inevitable that Salamence will drop given its current usage. Perhaps it could help against Crawdaunt? Bold mence switches on it nicely If Salamence gets banned from UU, I would prefer Crawdaunt being banned too. Never has the tier been centralized that much around one mon until very recently. Porygon Z doesn't even seem close to me in terms of centralization. I totally agree with the second part. I think crawdaunt is way more centralizing. About the first part you might be right but also could be wrong, because I also see the two mons complementing each other offensively so therefore one might make the other even more dangerous. Sadly we do have to test it out ourselves to be more sure about that. Personally I would discuss each pokemon separately but you raise a valid point to be honest. It's a difficult discussion and decision to take HumongousNoodle, Azphiel, DoubleJ and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Bertolfoso Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 hi Gruul and Huargensy 2 Link to comment
Munya Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 Do you have anything you wish to add to the discussion? Link to comment
Bertolfoso Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 Yeah. Discussion ended 1 month ago speculating how Crawdaunt would be with Salamence in the tier. Seeing as it's really really unlikely that it ever comes back (if Mence was balanced, anyways) and that people agreed that Crawdaunt is very centralizing (forcing you to run Toxicroak/Poliwrath), I think it would be fair to end this suspect test as soon as possible (I do realize there were holidays so it isn't a full month, but the point still stands). Link to comment
Munya Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 They were largely undecided during the test prior to Salamence, and asked for the test to continue this month now that salamence is gone. Link to comment
Bertolfoso Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 Huh, the only TC I saw expressing their opinion was Azphiel who seemed quite convinced on what to do. I was unaware of others' opinion, hence me "bumping" the thread Link to comment
Munya Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Crawdaunt will be staying for the forseeable future, vote to ban it failed to pass 2-4. Quinn010, Shadow, Bertolfoso and 2 others 2 1 1 1 Link to comment
LeJovi Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Munya said: Crawdaunt will be staying for the forseeable future, vote to ban it failed to pass 2-4. L move, Craw is centralizing as f*ck Umbramol, Quinn010, Bertolfoso and 2 others 5 Link to comment
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