July-2023 Movement Discussion

[Queza]

22 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

I'm comparing a mon and other because both had the EXACT SAME ROLE and had the same good and bad points(good: high dmg output, s**** on most walls, bad: No speed without scarf, bad defenses, can't do a *** on offenses, etc...) and it's a good way to explain what can happen when the weakness got exploited.

My man you are so wrong in so many ways. Darm/Crawd (OU) has never been a problem from my understanding for OU meta could be wrong, i remember a cofa, sd chomp, conk powercreeping, hydrei needing movement etc while Gallade allowed even the worst of players to click buttons and have a default wincon just from existing. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Queza

[Frag]

13 hours ago, Munya said:

Currently still using old cutoff for this season, 4.36% to go either way.

 

Banned to Ubers from OU:

Gallade - Discussion thread/ban post.

 

To OU from UU:

Salamence - 5.26% OU Usage

 

Banned to BL1 from UU:

Shaymin - Discussion thread/ban post.

 

To UU from OU:

Seismitoad - 3.31% OU usage

Toxicroak - 2.91% OU usage

 

To UU from NU:

Gastrodon - 8.09% UU usage

Zoroark - 5.44% UU usage

Clefable - 4.87% UU usage

Tentacruel - 4.85% UU usage

 

To NU from UU:

Ditto - 3.91% UU usage

Druddigon - 2.08% UU usage

Gigalith - 1.65% UU usage

Gligar - 4.16% UU usage

Mismagius - 3.04% UU usage

Venusaur - 4.02% UU usage

Xatu - 3.83% UU usage

 

Will these changes be applied after or before the tt?

[Munya]

Late 29th/early 30th whenever I can get around to it and a tournament isn't happening.  When is TT?

[Makarovs]

23 minutes ago, Munya said:

Late 29th/early 30th whenever I can get around to it and a tournament isn't happening.  When is TT?

July 1, Delay it one/two days and you save Bear a lot of trouble.

[Melikos]

10 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Gallade gone, worst decision possible. Without doubt the argument to not ban was best. 

"Gallade Broke a lot Walls" - and? Crawdaunt under a Rain also do that, Darma can do that. They are perfectly fine on metagaming. 

Gallade lacks speed, 80 is very slow for OU standarts. It lacks a part of One/Two-Hit KOs without Life Orb, and lacks Speed that it really need without Scarf. Also the 4mss mentioned on discussion thread. How a mon that can't had the coverage it need due to lack of moves, and had the same problem with items, are remotely close to be bannable?

I agree with every word, realize that only wallers is laughing at your comment... They have no arguments.

[Godhelll]

12 minutes ago, Melikos said:

I agree with every word, realize that only wallers is laughing at your comment... They have no arguments.

Do people have no arguments for bringing Gallade to the ban? So what is this? The others, don't blow the answer

 

 

[KaynineXL]

3 hours ago, Munya said:

Late 29th/early 30th whenever I can get around to it and a tournament isn't happening.  When is TT?

 

2 hours ago, Makarovs said:

July 1, Delay it one/two days and you save Bear a lot of trouble.

It was said that the 8th July is the most probable date for TT in the TT discord.

[Onraider]

12 hours ago, TohnR said:

Any reason why it should ? I don't really see how Toxicroak/Seismitoard/Salamence/Shaymin changes affect PZ in any way, if anything these changes make PZ stronger in UU as the tier loses 2 top tier threats that were faster than it. Besides the recovery changes make PZ case even worse in UU

 

There's also Venusaur & Empoleon that got added (right ?)+ Leafeon is virtually buffed because of the Recovery PP Nerf (since it uses Wish).
Not saying that means Crawdaunt is fine but it's not at the same point it used to be. 

 

 

On another note, UU usage changes will be irrelevant in just a while as the whole meta changes without Mence/Shaymin.
Mons such as Gligar, Gigalith & Druddigon will surely bounce back up above the cutoff in the upcomming months.
I'm not entirely sure how you can deal with it but there'll surely be more instability in NU because of that. 

 

Last time if i rememeber correctlyit was moved to BL1 was because empo had moved up to OU. Been several months since empo moved back down plus with the addition of AV things like spiritomb can provide counterplay as well vs it. Can agree the roost nerf made things easier for pz but just interested to see how it would do in such an environment with things like AV there. Plus last few months pz could have easily been dropped but there was no talk abt it at all, and for some reason p2 which is much more problematic in general was dropped. At the very least some discussion about pz would be nice to just evaluate it regardless of whether its dropped or not

Edited June 26, 2023 by Onraider

[Ziiiiio]

Ban gallade is not the best solution imo, but however we did something.

 

Do we get gallade back when it nerfed(like SD chomp), or once we get more stuff in PVP? I think we need to encourage the diversity of gameplay and continue to address this issue, it might cause regen stall mirror match in many tours.

[Bearminator]

4 hours ago, KaynineXL said:

 

It was said that the 8th July is the most probable date for TT in the TT discord.

Can confirm we will not do 1st of July. The changes are sudden and maybe one more week will help.

[Munya]

1 hour ago, Ziiiiio said:

Ban gallade is not the best solution imo, but however we did something.

 

Do we get gallade back when it nerfed(like SD chomp), or once we get more stuff in PVP? I think we need to encourage the diversity of gameplay and continue to address this issue, it might cause regen stall mirror match in many tours.

If and when Gallade gets a nerf it will be trialed again yes.

[TohnR]

6 hours ago, Onraider said:

Last time if i rememeber correctlyit was moved to BL1 was because empo had moved up to OU. Been several months since empo moved back down plus with the addition of AV things like spiritomb can provide counterplay as well vs it. Can agree the roost nerf made things easier for pz but just interested to see how it would do in such an environment with things like AV there. Plus last few months pz could have easily been dropped but there was no talk abt it at all, and for some reason p2 which is much more problematic in general was dropped. At the very least some discussion about pz would be nice to just evaluate it regardless of whether its dropped or not

Fair enough

[ChronoRike]

22 hours ago, gbwead said:

Venomoth to NU plz. No reason for it to remain BL, especially with Gigalith in NU to counter it.

So u want to make Gigalith a mon u need to use 100%

 

[gbwead]

2 hours ago, ChronoRike said:

So u want to make Gigalith a mon u need to use 100%

 

Or you can use Magmortar, Ditto, Abomanow, Honchkrow, Mr. Mime, etc.

[DiosSlurpuff]

On 6/25/2023 at 1:48 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Gallade gone, worst decision possible. Without doubt the argument to not ban was best. 

"Gallade Broke a lot Walls" - and? Crawdaunt under a Rain also do that, Darma can do that. They are perfectly fine on metagaming. 

I don't really understand your argument, at least it's funny.
Compare Gallade to Craw/Darmanitan? lol. First, Crawdaunt cband requires rain to be able to stand out as a wallbreaker, without it Amoonguss count it, and even though you crunch it and take 68% of it with maximum roll damage, when it comes out it recovers 1/3 of its total ps, and your opponent He already knows you got locked in a crunch, so with some kind of steel or fighting type, they got you under control (Even this is circumstantial, sometimes you won't even be able to predic to Guss, in which case he's accompanied by, I don't know... Shao, I doubt that you use crunch there having an obligation of acua jet).
Darmanitan can be controlled by Jellicent, Gastrodon, Milotic, or any monster, depending on which move is blocked for choice scarf/cband.

 

Now try to tell me a real counter to Gallade that is not Sableye WoW (Which by the way is solved by accompanying Gallade of any Dark Type). 

 

Basically, I'm saying that Crawdaunt and Darmanitan can be almost as destructive as Gallade, the difference is that in the wrong hands they don't work as choice mons, instead, Gallade is crazy, any random can exploit it by spamming sacred/psychocut.

Edited June 26, 2023 by DiosSlurpuff

[ChronoRike]

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

Or you can use Magmortar, Ditto, Abomanow, Honchkrow, Mr. Mime, etc.

? Magmortar and Ditto i can take but honch and abomas?

 

 

 

[ChronoRike]

Just now, ChronoRike said:

? Magmortar and Ditto i can take but honch and abomas?

 

 

 

+1 252 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 390-458 (101.8 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 390-458 (101.8 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO 

+1 252 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 288-339 (84.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO also if u say av or something u can make him sleep then put pressure on the switch nothing more

 

[Lumiere]

7 minutes ago, ChronoRike said:

+1 252 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 390-458 (101.8 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 390-458 (101.8 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO 

+1 252 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 288-339 (84.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO also if u say av or something u can make him sleep then put pressure on the switch nothing more

 

Im pretty sure hes reffering to Soundproof Abomasnow... lmao

[ChronoRike]

6 minutes ago, Lumiere said:

Im pretty sure hes reffering to Soundproof Abomasnow... lmao

tf is that 

 

 

[gbwead]

34 minutes ago, ChronoRike said:

? Magmortar and Ditto i can take but honch and abomas?

 

 

 

I assume Assault Vest Insomnia Honchkrow is pretty safe against Venomoth.

As for Abomasnow, I remember 2 seasons ago, there was a UU player in the top 10 spamming Abomasnow Soundproof in ranked. I assume that if Abomasnow was playable in UU, it could potentially be viable in NU. Immunity to both Bug Buzz and Sleep Powder could force Venomoth to run moves it wouldn't run in normal conditions.

Edit:
Oh my bad, it wasn't 2 seasons ago, it was at in January of this year that Soundproof was the main ability on Abomasnow in UU. It's not a lot of usage, but it could be a possibility to explore imo.

Edited June 26, 2023 by gbwead

[Godhelll]

5 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I assume Assault Vest Insomnia Honchkrow is pretty safe against Venomoth.

As for Abomasnow, I remember 2 seasons ago, there was a UU player in the top 10 spamming Abomasnow Soundproof in ranked. I assume that if Abomasnow was playable in UU, it could potentially be viable in NU. Immunity to both Bug Buzz and Sleep Powder could force Venomoth to run moves it wouldn't run in normal conditions.

I like Venomoth, but still feel like the Pokemon is too strong for the tier. Unless playing rather specific things, the Pokemon is capable of dropping many teams on its own. It does not exclude that we can try to test him in the tier, but in my opinion it would be banned again anyways

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Godhelll

[caioxlive13]

18 hours ago, Melikos said:

I agree with every word, realize that only wallers is laughing at your comment... They have no arguments.

Gallade have syndrome on 4-moveslot and on itemslot. They are using gallade's ban as windown to ask changes like PP nerf to be reverted, or some HA that can help tanks like Slowbro Regen, and they're doing that because they know staff and devs will do whatever are on their hands to keep mons out of ubers.

[Godhelll]

2 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Gallade have syndrome on 4-moveslot and on itemslot. They are using gallade's ban as windown to ask changes like PP nerf to be reverted, or some HA that can help tanks like Slowbro Regen, and they're doing that because they know staff and devs will do whatever are on their hands to keep mons out of ubers.

But of course it's a conspiracy theory... Carry on my brother, keep exposing things to the light

[DiosSlurpuff]

35 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Gallade have syndrome on 4-moveslot and on itemslot. They are using gallade's ban as windown to ask changes like PP nerf to be reverted, or some HA that can help tanks like Slowbro Regen, and they're doing that because they know staff and devs will do whatever are on their hands to keep mons out of ubers.

You talk as if Slowbro regen is really broken, or as if he could do something against Night Slash or Leaf Blade Gallade

[drewq]

39 minutes ago, DiosSlurpuff said:

You talk as if Slowbro regen is really broken, or as if he could do something against Night Slash or Leaf Blade Gallade

We usually ignore this guy to avoid talking yourself in circles and filling up the thread with nonsense. Your efforts are noble yet fruitless, unfortunately.