PSL XVI Feedback and suggestions for next PSL

[Imperial]

Hello,

 

I appreciate that it's the middle of the regular season of PSL XVI as I write this but I thought it would be a good idea to gather feedback from the community regarding this PSL edition and also look at suggestions for the next one (whoever would be keen to host it).

 

I'll share my views:

 

Pros

• I thought it was nice to have a variety of managers involved, including giving a debut to managers like NecasInTrouble and Wallarro - it shows that the competitive community is willing to continue giving new people a chance to showcase their managerial skills in the biggest unofficial tournament
• Drama was identified and dealt with pretty quickly (e.g. the Brumoso incident), although it could have potentially been dealt with more smoothly (e.g. Not suspending Necas)
• New players were able to debut in their first PSL season (e.g. LiveLaughHate amongst others)
• The chips were a nice incentive and had that surprise factor against opposing teams

 

Cons

• I believe that Doc doing most of the stuff on his own wasn't a good idea considering his commitments - these sort of events always need help as it's incredibly time-consuming
• Although the chips were a good incentive, I believe that this alongside the point above caused line-ups to be submitted and weekly line-ups to be posted slightly late
• The fact that players could leave a team that was eliminated during the regular season and join a team to increase their chances at winning seems a bit unfair - I believe you should stick with your team until the very end unless a midseason draft occurs, as it's the player and manager's responsibility to motivate the team. Although both managers had to agree to the trade, I feel players should stick with that team regardless
• Some of the draft picks weren't the best compared to previous seasons
• PSL is starting to lose its identity as the years go on. It used to be known as the competition for only the most elite and top players in the game but admittedly the quality has been decreasing over time. Although there are still some great quality matches, the overall quality has definitely reduced.

 

To be updated as the season progresses.

 

Now onto my suggestions for a future PSL...

 

Timeline

• General Thread to be posted at the beginning of October (enough time to collect donations and build hype)
• Manager/Player registrations to be posted on the second week of November (Manager sign-ups open for one week, player sign-ups open for two weeks)
• Auction to take place on the last Saturday/Sunday of November
• Regular season to take place from the first week of December, with one of the following formats:
  • Seven week round-robin, each team will play each other once. A team will receive 3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie and 0 points for a loss. 6 teams would qualify for the playoffs.
  • Two groups consisting of four teams each (the teams will be chosen at random) - each team will play each other twice, lasting for six weeks. A team will receive 3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie and 0 points for a loss. The top two teams from each group would qualify for the playoffs (4 in total), or the top three from each group qualifying (6 in total) but the teams finishing top automatically receiving a bye until the semifinals.
• Playoffs would take place from January and conclude in February (around CNY event time)

 

Manager selection

• There would be a variety of managers picked varying from those who have gained multiple tournament wins, competed in PSL or those who haven't managed before but may have the skills required to take on the role

 

Player selection

One of the following options:

• All players who signed up regardless of quality will be considered for the draft
• Implement a certain criteria for players to be drafted to ensure consistent high-quality matches - credit to @LeJovi for the suggestion

 

Tiers

• Reintroduce showdown tiers, with a vote between:
  • SV OU, SM OU, ORAS OU, DPP OU, ADV OU, VGC
    • If this is not possible then potentially a separate tournament where MMO players would exclusively participate in showdown tiers to prove their skills (e.g. A Smogon based PSL purely aimed at MMO players)
• Regular Season
  • 8 Tiers - OU, OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, MC, MC
  • 10 Tiers - OU, OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, MC, MC, Showdown tier, Showdown tier
  • 6 Tiers - OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, Showdown Tier - Credit to @Luke
    • There is a consideration to get rid of Manager Choice for future PSL's as there are no great benefits and it risks inexperienced players being slotted in that spot instead of being able to showcase their full potential.
• Playoff Season
  • Same as above, but in the event of a tie managers will battle in the following tiers (OU, MC, MC)

 

General

• Chips would be abandoned
• Introduce a co-host and PSL Council to ensure that the event runs smoothly throughout, line ups/deadlines are handled quicker and to help if any incidents/drama occurs
• Disable trades during the season as teams that are already eliminated (e.g. RDL's team) can put other teams at an advantage/disadvantage, since in theory, RDL's team may not need to try anymore compared to previous weeks
• Allow a midseason draft from week 5/6 onwards to give undrafted players or players who missed the original deadline to join if they want. Managers would be given a certain number of credits unrelated to the original draft to bid on these players.
• Managers to potentially battle each other to decide potential tiebreakers during playoffs (assuming they are not allowed to play again).
• Having pre-established teams with a consistent mascot for each PSL - Credit to @Luke
• Removing Manager Choices as a tier and replacing this with Showdown tiers or removing these altogether - Credit to @Luke @Quinn010
• Make sure that coaching, if caught, is severely punished to try and deter players from attempting to do so.

 

Betting

• Betting threads to be reintroduced in the Unofficial Tournaments section for PSL, due to a number of people not realising about the Club section and engagement being lower than previous years

 

Additional

• Try and bring back Kyu OT Pokemon or other staff prizes as an extra incentive for MvPs and media recorders - Credit to @Axelgor for the idea

 

This just came to my head right now so wanted to share, but I'd like to emphasise that this does not mean I'm planning to host the next PSL, more that I thought it would be good to get feedback and ideas in as soon as possible so that we can avoid any delays like this year.

Edited April 16 by Imperial

[LeJovi]

I agree with everything but the PSL format. 

 

I believe we could make it a smaller, more exclusive event where we can see top quality in every match. We all know there are players who get drafted just because... not really because they have the level to compete in PSL. And we see evidence of that every season. 

 

I think 6 teams, 8 tiers (or less, not sure about Manager Choices either) would be fine, making the event move faster, be more exclusive, and not get boring at times like we all know it does. This would assure that only the best of the best play this event (or at least who managers believe are the best). 

If you're a new player you have plenty of chances to get noticed by managers before the event starts, like scrim sessions, winning tournaments, etc. Maybe it would even motivate newer players to get better faster. 

In this case, we could have midseason, since probably some players will go undrafted and maybe a manager can see value in taking someone from the pool to help his team or make it stronger, still unsure about it tho because it's very hard to make it work for everyone + still be fair. 

 

I do believe whichever seed is higher during regular season should get some sort of advantage come playoffs time, maybe then we could introduce MC or something else. 

 

Lineups are a huge problem, and imo they can be fixed easily with a Discord Bot, it would only take a bit of time/programming to accomplish this and it would remove a huge headache for everyone. 

 

I also like what you said about managers having some sort of activity throughout the season, it would encourage them to stay in touch and not just send lineups and go AFK the rest of the time. 

 

 

[gbwead]

What bothers me the most is when a team has no shot of going to playoffs, but still has to play 1, 2 or 3 weeks left. That's fundamentally fucked imo. No one wants to play when they are already out. Eliminated managers usually bench their best players to give a chance to their noobs to make a name for themselves. I don't blame them, but it's unfair to all the previous opponents that had to fight try hard players that are afterwards replaced with meh players.

We had different systems to make sure this does not happen:

• 6 out of 8 teams going to playoffs
• All teams make playoffs (advantages/disadvantages based of regular season standings)
• etc.
   

This year Doc decided to have only 4 teams going to playoffs, but created the underdog fund as an incentive for eliminated teams to keep trying. It's not a bad idea, we'll see how it goes. Anyhow, it's important for the host to choose a format that makes it unlikely for a team to be eliminated prior to the end of the regular season.
 

Edited April 16 by gbwead

[skyluxNG]

59 minutes ago, Imperial said:

Player selection

• TBC - Would we like to include a certain criteria for players to be drafted (e.g. Number of tournament wins and other accomplishments) to ensure high quality matches - credit to @LeJovi for the suggestion, or would we like to keep it inclusive for everyone?

Awesome idea but I don't see working for something like lc which you have no ladder or no tours whatsoever. If you would like to include some of the tours made by the lcpl community is fine I just would say the level is pretty mid overall unless you see already established players. Same thing goes to showdown tiers imo, you don't know who is good or bad unless you follow closely smogon people which most likely be the same players that has been there for years (possibly adding good PokeMMO players that could adapt fast to these tiers without problem). It reduces the chances of new people to come in and show what they are made of giving us the same matches probably all the time if the same players sign up and get picked.

[LeJovi]

8 minutes ago, skyluxNG said:

Awesome idea but I don't see working for something like lc which you have no ladder or no tours whatsoever. If you would like to include some of the tours made by the lcpl community is fine I just would say the level is pretty mid overall unless you see already established players. Same thing goes to showdown tiers imo, you don't know who is good or bad unless you follow closely smogon people which most likely be the same players that has been there for years (possibly adding good PokeMMO players that could adapt fast to these tiers without problem). It reduces the chances of new people to come in and show what they are made of giving us the same matches probably all the time if the same players sign up and get picked.

Yeah, I see what you're saying, but that's a manager's job, to know who's good/bad and to investigate so that the manager can pick the best available option based on his/her criteria. At least IMO. 

[TohnR]

I don't think there's any good criteria of eligibility really.
When I got bought for the first time I had nothing but some ladder ranking and CCs to my name, still don't have much and yet I'll be picked and play every season. I have faced the wide majority of elite players this game has to offer in my tier and went neutral or positive through each of the 3 seasons I have participated in (4th ongoing, we'll see).
 

If you want only the best to enter, just make sure managers are "forced" to tryhard in some way, for instance involving their own money.
If every manager has to pay say 20m to signup (if picked), and then you share the "manager prize pool" between managers from 1st to last at the end of regular season, they will be forced to try in the auction, and try every week until the very end. 

Edited April 16 by TohnR

[LeJovi]

20 minutes ago, gbwead said:

What bothers me the most is when a team has no shot of going to playoffs, but still has to play 1, 2 or 3 weeks left. That's fundamentally fucked imo. No one wants to play when they are already out. Eliminated managers usually bench their best players to give a chance to their noobs to make a name for themselves. I don't blame them, but it's unfair to all the previous opponents that had to fight try hard players that are afterwards replaced with meh players.

We had different systems to make sure this does not happen:

• 6 out of 8 teams going to playoffs
• All teams make playoffs (advantages/disadvantages based of regular season standings)
• etc.
   

This year Doc decided to have only 4 teams going to playoffs, but created the underdog fund as an incentive for eliminated teams to keep trying. It's not a bad idea, we'll see how it goes. Anyhow, it's important for the host to choose a format that makes it unlikely for a team to be eliminated prior to the end of the regular season.
 

We could introduce something like the NBA has done with the play-in tournament. This NBA season is arguably one of the best yet because it has been mostly competitive until the very last game of the season. 

It gives more chances for lower seeds to compete throughout the season and stay in the fight. 

This would give teams a better chance while also giving the top teams a clear advantage. 
So basically the 9 & 10 seeds have to win twice for a chance to get to playoffs.
While the 7 & 8 seeds can access directly. But the loser still has another shot of making it. 

 

Obviously this would need to be adapted to PSL format cuz of timing, but it's a nice idea imo. Maybe reduced tiers or something.  

[LeJovi]

4 minutes ago, TohnR said:

I don't think there's any good criteria of eligibility really.
When I got bought for the first time I had nothing but some ladder ranking and CCs to my name, still don't have much and yet I'll be picked and play every season. I have faced the wide majority of elite players this game has to offer in my tier and went neutral or positive through each of the 3 seasons I have participated in (4th ongoing, we'll see).
 

If you want only the best to enter, just make sure managers are "forced" to tryhard in some way, for instance involving their own money.
If every manager has to pay say 20m to signup (if picked), and then you share the "manager prize pool" between managers from 1st to last at the end of regular season, they will be forced to try in the auction, and try every week until the very end. 

I agree, in the end someone decided to give you a chance even without tournaments or whatever and you proved your worth. So this doesn't necesarilly makes "new players" not eligible.  

E: please merge my posts

Edited April 16 by LeJovi

[gbwead]

I'm not a big fan of the player sign up template that was used:

Quote

 

IGN:

Time Zone (UTC Format):

Discord:

Preferred Tiers:

Fluff:

Donation:

 

Imo, Time Zone, Discord and Donation are not really useful.

I would go for something like this instead:

Quote

IGN: Current IGN + Previous IGN

Alts: Alts that participated in previous PSL seasons or won official tournaments must be listed.

Tiers: The player can't be forced by their manager to play in a tier they didn't sign up for. (Bold means preffered tiers)

Availability: If a player will not be available all weeks, they can let managers know. The price of the player will likely be lower, but it also mean the player will not be allowed to play more than the availability disclosed.

Fluff: W.e the player wants to add.

 

[Imperial]

1 hour ago, LeJovi said:

I agree with everything but the PSL format. 

 

I believe we could make it a smaller, more exclusive event where we can see top quality in every match. We all know there are players who get drafted just because... not really because they have the level to compete in PSL. And we see evidence of that every season. 

 

I think 6 teams, 8 tiers (or less, not sure about Manager Choices either) would be fine, making the event move faster, be more exclusive, and not get boring at times like we all know it does. This would assure that only the best of the best play this event (or at least who managers believe are the best). 

If you're a new player you have plenty of chances to get noticed by managers before the event starts, like scrim sessions, winning tournaments, etc. Maybe it would even motivate newer players to get better faster. 

In this case, we could have midseason, since probably some players will go undrafted and maybe a manager can see value in taking someone from the pool to help his team or make it stronger, still unsure about it tho because it's very hard to make it work for everyone + still be fair. 

 

I do believe whichever seed is higher during regular season should get some sort of advantage come playoffs time, maybe then we could introduce MC or something else. 

 

Lineups are a huge problem, and imo they can be fixed easily with a Discord Bot, it would only take a bit of time/programming to accomplish this and it would remove a huge headache for everyone. 

 

I also like what you said about managers having some sort of activity throughout the season, it would encourage them to stay in touch and not just send lineups and go AFK the rest of the time. 

 

 

I do agree about having consistent high-quality matches, admittedly the player pool hasn't been the best this year compared to previous editions and the same with the matches, but I understand that there's a huge amount of pressure in these type of competitions especially when you have to play the deciding match for your team.

 

About the new players, I'm a bit mindful about this as there's a lot of players new and old who may not have the time or resources to enter multiple tournaments, so a potential alternative could be that each manager opens up a tryout server where potential players battle the manager to try and prove they deserve to get picked.

 

Midseason will need careful consideration and obviously it's almost impossible to control who from outside the competition will be helping teams behind the scenes, etc. 

 

The line up issue I hope would be easier to resolve with the implementation of a co-host & council which also considers other factors such as timezones but otherwise a bot would be the most sufficient solution.

 

I appreciate the comment about managers - I feel it makes things more interesting instead of them picking particular players to play, it also makes sure that they're active and in-touch with the current meta as well.

 

1 hour ago, skyluxNG said:

Awesome idea but I don't see working for something like lc which you have no ladder or no tours whatsoever. If you would like to include some of the tours made by the lcpl community is fine I just would say the level is pretty mid overall unless you see already established players. Same thing goes to showdown tiers imo, you don't know who is good or bad unless you follow closely smogon people which most likely be the same players that has been there for years (possibly adding good PokeMMO players that could adapt fast to these tiers without problem). It reduces the chances of new people to come in and show what they are made of giving us the same matches probably all the time if the same players sign up and get picked.

I feel that managers being forced to implement tryout servers would help resolve this issue. If they are not available to play matches then they could nominate a few players to help battle and decide on their behalf, but this will need careful consideration as to how best implement this.

 

48 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I'm not a big fan of the player sign up template that was used:

Imo, Time Zone, Discord and Donation are not really useful.

I would go for something like this instead:

 

I like the idea of the new template and I've seen Smogon league tournaments implement this sort of idea as well. I think it would be good for people to take the fluff seriously and convince managers to pick them, how would be a different story.

[Quinn010]

in my opinion the current problem with psl is that it change way to much for a tournament that is once a year. This is like my 4th psl? and every psl is different where the host decide how he will roll with it wich is in my opinion a wierd approach. 

I Believe that something PSL is missing what it really stand for. I have seen different opions about the tournament. Some people want less teams to make it more elite and some people want more teams to let more people in. we also have gimmicks every psl to make ''fun'? wich kinda defeats the point of a elite tournament? but also sub rules to make sure we get the best competition? We as a community need to make a choice do we want a competitive event or more a entertaining event because right now we have a mix wich clearly is a bit messed up.

From when I joined the game i always saw PSL as the biggest pokemmo tournament where the best players compete and i hoped i could say its stil is. Right now the chips system is a fun idea but I dont see the point of it. The first time i saw this idea I thought myself what is the idea behind this change? was this something we really needed ? Does it really add something to the tournament? And to awnser that i don't think it does. The week my team used the chip i have seen a 6-0 doubles match where a doubles player played agaisnt someone inexperienced not really what i would have liked to see in a tournament where the best players compete and are aiming to show qaulity matches. I assume the idea was to make it harder for the manager to plan or something in those lines but i believe drafting the right players for the right slots and making sure they win is already hard enough for a manager adding these gimmicks just defeat the purpose of PSL and dont create any "hype'' no one cares about the chip system. 


Then we also have manager choices wich i think it is a cool idea but on paper doesn't work at all you usually throw someone in that slot hoping he can secure the win and if they lose its not a big problem because its just the opposing manager choice you usually see inexperienced players take this slot or players that dont even want to play the tier but are forced to play it. Having reguluar 6/8 slots is enough i managed myself and altough I didnt win it I know that planning a good manager choice plan is not the only succes to win and doesn't add anything competitive to it. For managing purpose it only lose a competitive spirit and for  playing purpose again it doens't add any 'hype' no one says oh wow PoseidonWrath vs QuinnW in the manager choice slot because no one simply care about it. 


So my proposal is: To make PSL The same tournament every year with a council For example Gbwead, Imperial and others that want to join make this 1 player per team to avoid other players brining influence and maybe add X amount of psls needed to be played to really let experienced players vote when needed (realistically this council wont have much power they only approve suggestions posted in the feedback and suggestion thread) make a thread like this every end of the season where we recieve feedback and can changes things if needed. And remove Manager choice and other gimmicks wich are supposed to make it fun when the real fun is in players playing in the tier they like to play so that we keep psl more simple just  in a competitve format. 

2 add my 2 cents to the format from playoffs i have played many tournaments on smogon where top 4 out of 8 advance but they make use of 1 point a tie 2 points for a win and with the many tours i played and many teams i played that didnt make playoffs we usually had a chance till week 6/7 so thats something to consider. Altough I think that psl really improve if we keep it more simple and aim for more qaulity and dont change the event every year so i dont really care that much how playoffs work just make sure we don't get a psl that take months . 

Edited April 16 by Quinn010

[Luke]

3 hours ago, Imperial said:

Tiers

• Reintroduce showdown tiers, with a vote between:
  • SV OU, SM OU, ORAS OU, DPP OU, ADV OU, VGC
    • If this is not possible then potentially a separate tournament where MMO players would exclusively participate in showdown tiers to prove their skills (e.g. A Smogon based PSL purely aimed at MMO players)
• Regular Season
  • 8 Tiers - OU, OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, MC, MC
  • 10 Tiers - OU, OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, MC, MC, Showdown tier, Showdown tier
• Playoff Season
  • Same as above, but in the event of a tie managers will battle in the following tiers (OU, MC, MC)

I agree with the reintroduction of showdown tiers but it should be 6 slots a week. Not more, I swear I watch some games and the quality and standard is fantastic, then I watch others and it's like I'm watching randoms at verm play. I used to be anti smogon tiers but I have to say the high level, hype and amount of viewers the DPP games got every time (60-80) without fail really solidified the need to have this as the format because clearly there is a large interest to watch such games.

 

I'd advise this being the format:

OU

UU

NU

LC

Dubs

Showdown Tier (voted on by community)

 

or

 

OU

OU
UU

NU

LC

Dubs

 

(If democracy votes against a showdown tier)

 

Fuck manager choice, it adds a lot of random-ness and I think it makes it harder for new managers to run their team well.. I also think Quinn makes a great point that we need to stop messing around with the PSL format. I will be honest, I considered managing this season but after seeing all these weird rules, gimmicks and things that can go wrong I decided not to. I imagine others felt the same way considering we are missing a ton of players in this PSL who usually play.

 

I also think solidifying the 8 teams to have a specific mascot is a good idea as it brings upon pre established teams and a sort of history for each, the names can be changed but the mascot must remain. Something like this. I also think retains should be considered and managers should always be able to self buy but with a weighted system dependent on a few factors; for example enchanteur can not self buy himself for 10c it would be weighted based upon his overall performance, previous sale price and previous records for something like 23c (example)

 

Edit: also add SEVERE punishments for coaching / ghosting. No slap on the wrists, don't permit it. MMO culture is soo heavy on coaching I really dislike it and I think we can do something about it in PSL & similar events for sure.

 

Edit edit: ALSO HOSTS SHOULD GET PAID!!!!! Not some tiny weeny sum im talking 20m for a season. 

 

TLDR:

6 Slots a week, stop changing the PSL format. Bring back showdown tiers. Really punish coaching, pay hosts.

Edited April 16 by Luke

[Quinn010]

I agree with lukes post and he makes it more clear. So what i want to add to my proposal is that the tournament is lacking a identity what really is psl right now ? its just a tournament hosted every year wich is not even the same we just call it psl because then it will be a big tournament wich creates hype.  Seasons don't really come along to each other and you don't feel super attched to a team so the idea from luke creating franchises is a amazing idea so the tournament get more meaning and history wich goes back for hopefully a long time. I am sure most people don't even know that pachi won psl back to back i believe ? i dont know it even know it myself because its just a different event every year with the same name. 

[Imperial]

1 hour ago, Quinn010 said:

in my opinion the current problem with psl is that it change way to much for a tournament that is once a year. This is like my 4th psl? and every psl is different where the host decide how he will roll with it wich is in my opinion a wierd approach. 

I Believe that something PSL is missing what it really stand for. I have seen different opions about the tournament. Some people want less teams to make it more elite and some people want more teams to let more people in. we also have gimmicks every psl to make ''fun'? wich kinda defeats the point of a elite tournament? but also sub rules to make sure we get the best competition? We as a community need to make a choice do we want a competitive event or more a entertaining event because right now we have a mix wich clearly is a bit messed up.

From when I joined the game i always saw PSL as the biggest pokemmo tournament where the best players compete and i hoped i could say its stil is. Right now the chips system is a fun idea but I dont see the point of it. The first time i saw this idea I thought myself what is the idea behind this change? was this something we really needed ? Does it really add something to the tournament? And to awnser that i don't think it does. The week my team used the chip i have seen a 6-0 doubles match where a doubles player played agaisnt someone inexperienced not really what i would have liked to see in a tournament where the best players compete and are aiming to show qaulity matches. I assume the idea was to make it harder for the manager to plan or something in those lines but i believe drafting the right players for the right slots and making sure they win is already hard enough for a manager adding these gimmicks just defeat the purpose of PSL and dont create any "hype'' no one cares about the chip system. 


Then we also have manager choices wich i think it is a cool idea but on paper doesn't work at all you usually throw someone in that slot hoping he can secure the win and if they lose its not a big problem because its just the opposing manager choice you usually see inexperienced players take this slot or players that dont even want to play the tier but are forced to play it. Having reguluar 6/8 slots is enough i managed myself and altough I didnt win it I know that planning a good manager choice plan is not the only succes to win and doesn't add anything competitive to it. For managing purpose it only lose a competitive spirit and for  playing purpose again it doens't add any 'hype' no one says oh wow PoseidonWrath vs QuinnW in the manager choice slot because no one simply care about it. 


So my proposal is: To make PSL The same tournament every year with a council For example Gbwead, Imperial and others that want to join make this 1 player per team to avoid other players brining influence and maybe add X amount of psls needed to be played to really let experienced players vote when needed (realistically this council wont have much power they only approve suggestions posted in the feedback and suggestion thread) make a thread like this every end of the season where we recieve feedback and can changes things if needed. And remove Manager choice and other gimmicks wich are supposed to make it fun when the real fun is in players playing in the tier they like to play so that we keep psl more simple just  in a competitve format. 

2 add my 2 cents to the format from playoffs i have played many tournaments on smogon where top 4 out of 8 advance but they make use of 1 point a tie 2 points for a win and with the many tours i played and many teams i played that didnt make playoffs we usually had a chance till week 6/7 so thats something to consider. Altough I think that psl really improve if we keep it more simple and aim for more qaulity and dont change the event every year so i dont really care that much how playoffs work just make sure we don't get a psl that take months . 

I think you made some really great points. The first is we should probably start focusing on quality over quantity. I also like the idea of having a council, ideally with previous hosts from PSL and other major tournaments who have experience in how things should be run.

 

The point system is also a good idea and likely avoids teams getting eliminated too early in the competition.

 

39 minutes ago, Luke said:

I agree with the reintroduction of showdown tiers but it should be 6 slots a week. Not more, I swear I watch some games and the quality and standard is fantastic, then I watch others and it's like I'm watching randoms at verm play. I used to be anti smogon tiers but I have to say the high level, hype and amount of viewers the DPP games got every time (60-80) without fail really solidified the need to have this as the format because clearly there is a large interest to watch such games.

 

I'd advise this being the format:

OU

UU

NU

LC

Dubs

Showdown Tier (voted on by community)

 

or

 

OU

OU
UU

NU

LC

Dubs

 

(If democracy votes against a showdown tier)

 

Fuck manager choice, it adds a lot of random-ness and I think it makes it harder for new managers to run their team well.. I also think Quinn makes a great point that we need to stop messing around with the PSL format. I will be honest, I considered managing this season but after seeing all these weird rules, gimmicks and things that can go wrong I decided not to. I imagine others felt the same way considering we are missing a ton of players in this PSL who usually play.

 

I also think solidifying the 8 teams to have a specific mascot is a good idea as it brings upon pre established teams and a sort of history for each, the names can be changed but the mascot must remain. Something like this. I also think retains should be considered and managers should always be able to self buy but with a weighted system dependent on a few factors; for example enchanteur can not self buy himself for 10c it would be weighted based upon his overall performance, previous sale price and previous records for something like 23c (example)

 

Edit: also add SEVERE punishments for coaching / ghosting. No slap on the wrists, don't permit it. MMO culture is soo heavy on coaching I really dislike it and I think we can do something about it in PSL & similar events for sure.

 

Edit edit: ALSO HOSTS SHOULD GET PAID!!!!! Not some tiny weeny sum im talking 20m for a season. 

 

TLDR:

6 Slots a week, stop changing the PSL format. Bring back showdown tiers. Really punish coaching, pay hosts.

Some suggestions I really love which I will include and credit in the main thread which are:

• Reducing the number of slots to hopefully only focus on higher quality matches
• I think getting rid of Manager Choice could be a good idea and I've seen some others suggest this - I think we could replace this with Showdown tiers 
• I really like the idea of having pre-established teams and a specific mascot, maybe this could potentially be decided by the previous winners of PSL with some input from certain members of the PSL community
• I also agree about the coaching rule, although this will be really difficult to monitor especially with Discord servers etc.

[gbwead]

I have a very cringy proposal.

For every PSL going forward, we have the exact same team names. The mascot of each team is linked to the least valuable shinies in game: Raticate, Tentacruel, Rapidash, Golem, Pidgeot, etc. At the end of the season, all members of the team that won PSL receive an untradable dev ot shiny of their team mascot. The IVs of the generated shiny are based on the number of wins the PSL team got. Assuming 8 tiers per week for 10 weeks, that's a total of 80 duels; so let's say for each win, the ivs of the shiny can be increased by 2. Obviously, we give the devs a large amount of prismatic pearls (60 maybe?) as a money sink for the roughly 10-12 shinies that would get generated.

It's nothing crazy, but it would give psl winners an actual trophy for their win. Some players might also try to collect as many trophies as possible over the years. Winners could also compare their performance to other winners based on the total ivs of their shitty Tentacruel. I could also see some players get mad if they end up for the 3rd time on the Rats team.

Anyhow, if people are interested we could approach the dev team to figure out if that's something to consider and what we need to give up as a money sink to make it possible. 

Edited April 16 by gbwead

[caioxlive13]

I will try to talk the less than possible there since i'm out of the talk place here. 

4 hours ago, Imperial said:

Hello,

 

I appreciate that it's the middle of the regular season of PSL XVI as I write this but I thought it would be a good idea to gather feedback from the community regarding this PSL edition and also look at suggestions for the next one (whoever would be keen to host it).

 

I'll share my views:

 

Pros

• I thought it was nice to have a variety of managers involved, including giving a debut to managers like NecasInTrouble and Wallarro - it shows that the competitive community is willing to continue giving new people a chance to showcase their managerial skills in the biggest unofficial tournament
• Drama was identified and dealt with pretty quickly (e.g. the Brumoso incident), although it could have potentially been dealt with more smoothly (e.g. Not suspending Necas)
• New players were able to debut in their first PSL season (e.g. LiveLaughHate amongst others)
• The chips were a nice incentive and had that surprise factor against opposing teams

 

Cons

• I believe that Doc doing most of the stuff on his own wasn't a good idea considering his commitments - these sort of events always need help as it's incredibly time-consuming
• Although the chips were a good incentive, I believe that this alongside the point above caused line-ups to be submitted and weekly line-ups to be posted slightly late
• The fact that players could leave a team that was eliminated during the regular season and join a team to increase their chances at winning seems a bit unfair - I believe you should stick with your team until the very end unless a midseason draft occurs, as it's the player and manager's responsibility to motivate the team. Although both managers had to agree to the trade, I feel players should stick with that team regardless
• Some of the draft picks weren't the best compared to previous seasons
• PSL is starting to lose its identity as the years go on. It used to be known as the competition for only the most elite and top players in the game but admittedly the quality has been decreasing over time. Although there are still some great quality matches, the overall quality has definitely reduced.

 

To be updated as the season progresses.

 

Now onto my suggestions for a future PSL...

 

Timeline

• General Thread to be posted at the beginning of October (enough time to collect donations and build hype)
• Manager/Player registrations to be posted on the second week of November (Manager sign-ups open for one week, player sign-ups open for two weeks)
• Auction to take place on the last Saturday/Sunday of November
• Regular season to take place from the first week of December, with one of the following formats:
  • Seven week round-robin, each team will play each other once. A team will receive 3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie and 0 points for a loss. 6 teams would qualify for the playoffs.
  • Two groups consisting of four teams each (the teams will be chosen at random) - each team will play each other twice, lasting for six weeks. A team will receive 3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie and 0 points for a loss. The top two teams from each group would qualify for the playoffs (4 in total), or the top three from each group qualifying (6 in total) but the teams finishing top automatically receiving a bye until the semifinals.
• Playoffs would take place from January and conclude in February (around CNY event time)

 

Manager selection

• There would be a variety of managers picked varying from those who have gained multiple tournament wins, competed in PSL or those who haven't managed before but may have the skills required to take on the role

 

Player selection

One of the following options:

• All players who signed up regardless of quality will be considered for the draft
• Implement a certain criteria for players to be drafted to ensure consistent high-quality matches - credit to @LeJovi for the suggestion

 

Tiers

• Reintroduce showdown tiers, with a vote between:
  • SV OU, SM OU, ORAS OU, DPP OU, ADV OU, VGC
    • If this is not possible then potentially a separate tournament where MMO players would exclusively participate in showdown tiers to prove their skills (e.g. A Smogon based PSL purely aimed at MMO players)
• Regular Season
  • 8 Tiers - OU, OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, MC, MC
  • 10 Tiers - OU, OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, MC, MC, Showdown tier, Showdown tier
  • 6 Tiers - OU, UU, NU, DUBS, LC, Showdown Tier - Credit to @Luke
    • There is a consideration to get rid of Manager Choice for future PSL's as there are no great benefits and it risks inexperienced players being slotted in that spot instead of being able to showcase their full potential.
• Playoff Season
  • Same as above, but in the event of a tie managers will battle in the following tiers (OU, MC, MC)

 

General

• Chips would be abandoned
• Introduce a co-host and PSL Council to ensure that the event runs smoothly throughout, line ups/deadlines are handled quicker and to help if any incidents/drama occurs
• Disable trades during the season as teams that are already eliminated (e.g. RDL's team) can put other teams at an advantage/disadvantage, since in theory, RDL's team may not need to try anymore compared to previous weeks
• Allow a midseason draft from week 5/6 onwards to give undrafted players or players who missed the original deadline to join if they want. Managers would be given a certain number of credits unrelated to the original draft to bid on these players.
• Managers to potentially battle each other to decide potential tiebreakers during playoffs (assuming they are not allowed to play again).
• Having pre-established teams with a consistent mascot for each PSL - Credit to @Luke
• Removing Manager Choices as a tier and replacing this with Showdown tiers or removing these altogether - Credit to @Luke @Quinn010
• Make sure that coaching, if caught, is severely punished to try and deter players from attempting to do so.

 

Betting

• Betting threads to be reintroduced in the Unofficial Tournaments section for PSL, due to a number of people not realising about the Club section and engagement being lower than previous years

 

Additional

• Try and bring back Kyu OT Pokemon or other staff prizes as an extra incentive for MvPs and media recorders - Credit to @Axelgor for the idea

 

This just came to my head right now so wanted to share, but I'd like to emphasise that this does not mean I'm planning to host the next PSL, more that I thought it would be good to get feedback and ideas in as soon as possible so that we can avoid any delays like this year.

Let's see some points there:
- Manager and Player Low quality on drafts: Agree with that, but what about putting some requirments on table to make players on the draft on good quality? Pick up the template that @gbwead proposed off(He put into a quote so i can't quote it's comment to show off. ), pick the nicks and make as a requirment to have won any official tour(Not Community-hosted nor Community Combats) and be on Hall of fame, or have won any expression unofficial tournament(I.E. World Cup or Past PSLs.). Using the picked nicks, you can double-check the titles. 
- Format to the PSL: Second format would be very good, especially if the Home team gets the right to choose where it's going to play. A lot of good places to play, and every single competition is on Vermilion. An alternative option if the first one is implemented and there is enough players to do so, it's 10 teams on a single table or 2 groups of 6(On the second one, would be only a single leg of games to avoid a tour with over 12 weeks.)
- Showdown Tiers: Bad idea. Not like it at all because it undervalue MMO players. The problem is when on PokéMMO Super League there is players that don't play PokéMMO at all, or play it a little and focus mainly on Smogon tours. If there is Showdown tiers, there will be players registering that are good on smogon, but are complety unknown on MMO, and registered due to some friend manager request. Also, there is some Non-official formats on MMO like VGC and Untiered, that are never given a chance. Unless the first suggestion i placed is applied, not a chance to put those tiers

[Ziiiiio]

I quite like new tier add in PSL tho, you wont see it in TT, in TCL or in any other tour, and How about add UT?

 

Idk what other feels about new tier, last year DPP attract me alot because it is something new to explore, to play, to watch or whatever.

 

But I agree the point upthere says the transparency of showdown players(maybe)

 

 

[gbwead]

I like UT, it could be a good addition imo. Hopefully, UT gains more popularity during the year so that next PSL the player base is large enough to compete.

[caioxlive13]

15 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I like UT, it could be a good addition imo. Hopefully, UT gains more popularity during the year so that next PSL the player base is large enough to compete.

UT right now is the 2nd most popular unofficial format, just behind Little Cup. Maybe some tours to incentive players to go for them like was done to LC recently? But if someone wants to go and do the tours, please do not commit the same mistake that PCL and TCL did. Make the format as it was an Official one, with proper banlists and etc... A tier without balancing is disgusting to play

Edited April 16 by caioxlive13

[RysPicz]

+1 for UT next season, it has so many interesting pokemons

[caioxlive13]

34 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

+1 for UT next season, it has so many interesting pokemons

Sadly i have no $$$, otherwise i'd host weekly tours for UT, letting people preparing for the tier. People would reach onto PSL with the teams and good knowledge of the tier, instead of playiing with some weird mons(I mean... No one noticed Slowking that is a pretty decent mon, is UT bcause on PCL 0 people i record of using it). This would 100% make me try my luck into the tour(I'm an average player on all other tiers but not in UT.)

Edited April 17 by caioxlive13

[TohnR]

UT could be cool but we would have to establish a proper tiering system just like the LC community does. I don't think we are ready to mention it for PSL yet, seeing how low the level was in other tournaments like Quinn's one (PCL ?).

 

And no Caio, we don't mean the thing you're doing with UT we mean something that the whole community agrees on 😉 

Edited April 17 by TohnR

[Ziiiiio]

Before UT add as official tier in PSL it need UT tour to test the tier, usage etc. We have plenty of time on it.

 

[Axelgor]

1 hour ago, TohnR said:

UT could be cool but we would have to establish a proper tiering system just like the LC community does. I don't think we are ready to mention it for PSL yet, seeing how low the level was in other tournaments like Quinn's one (PCL ?).

 

And no Caio, we don't mean the thing you're doing with UT we mean something that the whole community agrees on 😉 

Behold! The most adequate person to talk about level!

 

+1 on UT being added, it's good fun

[gbwead]

2 hours ago, TohnR said:

UT could be cool but we would have to establish a proper tiering system just like the LC community does.

NU is extremely volatile already and UT being dependant on NU usage would be even more. I don't think there is any point in trying to do any tiering for UT. Any tiering decision by the time gets reached becomes void by the time we would get the next usage drop. If something ends up broken, so be it because it's very likely by the time we figure out it's broken, it probably wouldn't be anymore.

Also, out of pure principe, UT stands for Untiered, a format that exists in defiance of any tiering getting done. It would be a disservice imo if we started to change it through tiering.