Team Tournament January 2017 (Saturday 28th January)

[gbwead]

7 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

Except they can play OU with a UU team.

Exactly. This mean that tiers with the least amount of restrictions have more potential to fill up despite the fact that the competitive scene migt not be there.

 

Edit: I remember a long time ago Oldkeith saying to new players - that did not know in what tier to start playing - to go with NU because they could play their NU comps in any tier if they wished.

 

Edit2: Considering the NU, UU and Doubles competitive scenes are mere increadibly small fractions of what the OU competitive scene is, the fact that Doubles have access to this huge OU competitive scene makes it look as if there are way more Doubles players than the reality.

Edited January 4, 2017 by gbwead

[DaftCoolio]

7 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

It's literally RNG hunting tier, where the better person rarely wins.

 

Literally look at the seasonal doubles tourny we had and you will find the invite winners are established doubles players. Which must be pretty crazy odds when the best person rarely wins. The truth. Can you do that for me?

 

3 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Exactly. This mean that tiers with the least amount of restriction have more potential to fill up despite the fact that the competitive scene isn't there.

You seem to have missed the point. The people who enter doubles tournys want to play doubles. Just because you can enter doesn't mean you do. Which brings me back to my example I can enter OU tournys with a UU team but I don't because I don't want to play OU. 

[LuisPocho]

If we had the raw stadistics of doubles tourneys we could have a good guess about how many players enter doubles withouth having the righ pokes vs how many actually play the tier (!).... like how many chanseys vs how many blisseys

Edited January 4, 2017 by LuisPocho

[KaynineXL]

Well the past isn't that relevant when we're talking about when doubles was played in TTs or not, I mean we're literally talking 2+ years ago, too much has changed. Doubles has been used in TTs for the past 2 years and I think its slowly grown to become a decent tier. 

 

Doubles has been neglected enough.. Removing it from TT will severely hurt it even more to the point where people might just think why bother.

[Torinnnnn]

joeseph just wants yall to put some respekk on the Double in his name

[gbwead]

12 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

You seem to have missed the point. The people who enter doubles tournys want to play doubles. Just because you can enter doesn't mean you do. Which brings me back to my example I can enter OU tournys with a UU team but I don't because I don't want to play OU. 

Nearly all the new pvp players that I come accross want to play all tournaments. They don't care what the tier is. If they can take part in it, they will. A big part of tournament brackets are filled with players like these imo. Since OU is by far the most popular tier, this implies that most players in this game can play OU, but they also can play Doubles by default. When you are a new player, you play whatever you can which mean a new player will play OU and Doubles, but he/she can't play UU or NU even though he might want to.

 

10 minutes ago, LuisPocho said:

If we had the raw stadistics of doubles tourneys we have a good guess about how many players enter doubles withouth having the righ pokes vs how many actually play the tier (!).... like how many chanseys vs how many blisseys

That would be helpful, but I am unsure it would be enough. A Ludicolo can be played in Doubles and in OU. Usage won't let us know if the Ludicolo played in Double have a Double moveset (Fake Out, Protect, Ice Beam, Icy Wind, etc.).

Edited January 4, 2017 by gbwead

[xStarr]

LF OU/Doubles/NU

[DaftCoolio]

38 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Nearly all the new pvp players that I come accross want to play all tournaments. They don't care what the tier is. If they can take part in it, they will. A big part of tournament brackets are filled with players like these imo. Since OU is by far the most popular tier, this implies that most players in this game can play OU, but they also can play Doubles by default. When you are a new player, you play whatever you can which mean a new player will play OU and Doubles, but he/she can't play UU or NU even though he might want to.

Then if the majority of competitve players can't play UU/NU and can only play OU and Doubles isn't that even more reason to have doubles? If doubles brackets fill up, no matter if they are dedicated doubles players or not, it shows people are willing and able to play doubles. If you can't see that then i can't really help you any further and there isnt much point talking about it. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by DaftCoolio

[gbwead]

Just now, DaftCoolio said:

Then if the majority of competitve players can't play UU/NU and can only play OU and Doubles isn't that even more reason to have doubles? If doubles brackets fill up, no matter if they are dedicated doubles players or not, it shows people are willing and able to play doubles. If you can't see that then i can't really help you any further and there isnt much point talking about. 

Remember the tier Xatu created? It was possible to create a "comp" for that tier in less than 5 minutes. The accessibility of a tier is important. This is why Doubles became part of the TT rotation in January 2015 afterall. However, this doesn't mean Doubles is a wanted competitive tier or that it is interresting, just like the Xatu tier in which no one wanted to compete. Also, the ability/capability to play in tier and the accessibility to a tier is not the same thing. I can say Doubles is unpopular. You can say Doubles is popular. At the end of the day, it is difficult to tell if the tier is popular or not. I know from my experience that I come accross OU players, UU players and even NU players quite often in game. However, I don't see much Doubles players. I know in RNG no one is interrested in playing Doubles, but hey someone has to for TT. We are basically forced to waste ressources in a tier that doesn't interest us just so we can compete. I know players from outside my team that feel the same way I do. Perhaps, we just don't talk to the same people, but what I am convinced of is that there is a lot of people that don't want Doubles in TT or want less Doubles in TT.

[DoubleJ]

28 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

Then if the majority of competitve players can't play UU/NU and can only play OU and Doubles isn't that even more reason to have doubles? If doubles brackets fill up, no matter if they are dedicated doubles players or not, it shows people are willing and able to play doubles. If you can't see that then i can't really help you any further and there isnt much point talking about. 

Preach

[DoctorPBC]

Docs dissect for the day

 

6 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Remember the tier Xatu created?

no

 

7 minutes ago, gbwead said:

However, this doesn't mean Doubles is a wanted competitive tier 

but it is tho

 

7 minutes ago, gbwead said:

 I know from my experience that I come accross OU players, UU players and even NU players quite often in game. However, I don't see much Doubles players. 

@Imabetheverybest1 @Rendiz @Artemiseta @DoctorPBC @DoubleJ @LKrenz @Frag @JIceJDragon @bluebreath @OrangeManiac @G0dPower @KaynineXL @NikhilR @fredisshit @lordofangmar (idk his forum name) @zko26 @Zigh @sweendog @SweeTforU @Aimi (hue)

 

To name a small handful, couple of those names hopefully stand out to you... hello

 

12 minutes ago, gbwead said:

 I know in RNG no one is interrested in playing Doubles

@LionKIng 

 

13 minutes ago, gbwead said:

 We are basically forced to waste ressources in a tier that doesn't interest us just so we can compete.

Omg, its almost like to win a team tournament, you need your team to be good at every tier???? what a shocker

 

14 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I know players from outside my team that feel the same way I do. 

Im going to go out on a limb and guess @RysPicz, he seems to like your posts enough to warrant a mention dont ya think

 

15 minutes ago, gbwead said:

 Perhaps, we just don't talk to the same people, but what I am convinced of is that there is a lot of people that don't want Doubles in TT or want less Doubles in TT.

All I see is an extremely vocal minority, will the real doubles haters please stand up?

[LuisPocho]

51 minutes ago, gbwead said:

That would be helpful, but I am unsure it would be enough. A Ludicolo can be played in Doubles and in OU. Usage won't let us know if the Ludicolo played in Double have a Double moveset (Fake Out, Protect, Ice Beam, Icy Wind, etc.).

thats true, thats true... how about this:

 According to "Best of 2016" there were 59 OU players that won something... 43 UU players... 47 NU players... 33 doubles players that won something in 2016... 13 for LC

naturally, they are just the "best players", so we cant figure out how many players werent good enough to win something and those are just a fraction of the server... very related with the amount of tourneys, not that usefull, those numbers wont demostrate much... bla bla bla

but still, we can see that there is no much difference between the amount of good doubles players and the other tiers... I think it DOES DEMOSTRATE that doubles is popular enough to have a good amount of good players or at least as many as the other tiers (I dont think those are OU newbie players playing doubles)...

Edited January 4, 2017 by LuisPocho

[RysPicz]

11 minutes ago, DoctorPBC said:

All I see is an extremely vocal minority, will the real doubles haters please stand up?

Lion is not in RNG, he was just visiting. Also lmao at tagging Amanub, fuck I miss that uguu. And I'm not very vocal basically because gb says everything I would want say so I'm just limiting myself to liking his posts rather than making useless personal rants

[DoubleJ]

Noad be like ffs

[Rendiz]

I feel I can't read a thread any more that has doubles mentioned in it where gb isn't ranting about something. You don't like doubles? Cool we get it. Now can we stop arguing about this shit on every thread or shall we make a separate thread on comp alley just to contain this bs?

 

You can try and hide behind semantics all you want but if a bracket is filling then its filling. If you are seriously trying to suggest that everyone who enters the tournaments and then proceeds to enter more doubles tournaments hates the 'tier' and is doing so at gunpoint then I guess it's a lost cause.

[gbwead]

11 hours ago, DoctorPBC said:

All I see is an extremely vocal minority, will the real doubles haters please stand up?

You see it as hate when it isn't. Doubles is just a huge let down for me and for many others. I was on TS today and I talked to 2 players not from RNG or AURA that simply don't think Doubles is a poor competitive tier. Giving you the name of these people would mean exposing them to some unwanted savagery from Doubles preachers. 

 

10 hours ago, LuisPocho said:

but still, we can see that there is no much difference between the amount of good doubles players and the other tiers... I think it DOES DEMOSTRATE that doubles is popular enough to have a good amount of good players or at least as many as the other tiers (I dont think those are OU newbie players playing doubles)...

Is a good doubles player that good at playing doubles if a big part of his competition are OU newbies tho? OU newbies are not the ones winning Doubles tournaments.

 

11 hours ago, DoctorPBC said:

Omg, its almost like to win a team tournament, you need your team to be good at every tier???? what a shocker

Why not have a Tic Tac Toe tier while we are at it? I'm not comparing Doubles to Tic Tac Toe; I just wanted to point out how invalid this argument can be. 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by gbwead

[Crazyhell]

3 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Is a good doubles player that good at playing doubles if a big part of his competition are OU newbies tho? OU newbies are not the ones winning Doubles tournaments.

@lilyek

[Gunthug]

Just now, gbwead said:

Why not have a Tic Tac Toe tier while we are at it? I'm not comparing Doubles to Tic Tac Toe; I just wanted to point out how invalid this argument can be.

Here's the problem with this comparison, along with the xatu comparison from earlier - doubles is a universally recognized staple of competitive pokemon play, and it has been in every self respecting community of competitive players for over a decade. So yeah, when doc says you should have to prepare for every tier in order to succeed in TT, he's not talking about made up gimmick tiers like whatever the fuck xatu's was called, or tic tac toe. He's talking about doubles, which is just a core aspect of the genre to be honest. There's no getting around that, it's not an opinion it's a fact.

 

Why we're even having this argument is beyond me, this isn't a healthy discussion at all. You don't have to like doubles, but you can't just pretend it's not there. If a team can't win a TT because they don't have a good doubles player, they need to adapt rather than petition to change the whole game. Let's go back to discussing @Noad's idea for a 5 tier TT, something we've been pushing for since I can't even remember

[gbwead]

2 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Here's the problem with this comparison, along with the xatu comparison from earlier - doubles is a universally recognized staple of competitive pokemon play, and it has been in every self respecting community of competitive players for over a decade. So yeah, when doc says you should have to prepare for every tier in order to succeed in TT, he's not talking about made up gimmick tiers like whatever the fuck xatu's was called, or tic tac toe. He's talking about doubles, which is just a core aspect of the genre to be honest. There's no getting around that, it's not an opinion it's a fact.

If you put yourself in my shoes and believe the Doubles competitive scene is too small to warrant a spot in TT, there should be nothing wrong with believing we should give people what they want which mean no Doubles. You can believe the competitive scene is big or small, but what becomes a fact will be based on that size perception.

 

6 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

If a team can't win a TT because they don't have a good doubles player, they need to adapt rather than petition to change the whole game.

You make it seem as if Doubles has to be in TT when it really doesn't. It wasn't before and TT was fine to my knowledge. As for RNG not having Doubles players, that did not stop us from having success in Doubles during TT. The lack of competitiveness of PokeMMO doubles allows - to some riddiculous extent - anyone to win with pure luck and probable hax. I get that Doubles spices things up for TT, but I still believe we have too much of that tier.

 

26 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Let's go back to discussing @Noad's idea for a 5 tier TT, something we've been pushing for since I can't even remember

I like the 5 tier TT idea in theory, but it would most likely mean RNG is out of TT. We have a lot players, but having 5 players that can play 5 different tiers connected at the same time during TT is hardly feasible for us. 

 

[Torinnnnn]

so to summarize 

 

SASS > RNG

[Mnemosyne]

13 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

Based on what is UU every single month?

 

Shouldn't it be like this
 

OU/UU/NU

OU/UU/Doubles

OU/NU/Doubles

OU/UU/NU

OU/UU/Doubles

OU/NU/Doubles

etc

 

Gonna quote ^ every day until I get a proper reason from a staff member why UU is literally every month in TT.

 

[Crazyhell]

16 minutes ago, Torinnnnn said:

so to summarize 

 

SASS > RNG

plz we beat you #LordGB ( coatch by Schu )

[DaftCoolio]

6 minutes ago, Crazyhell said:

plz we beat you #LordGB ( coatch by Schu )

show us your shinys doe

[DoubleJ]

Sass vs RNG is the new LYLE vs Poo... toxic as fuck. 

 

@Toast show them your Lapras bro

[DaftCoolio]

21 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Sass vs RNG is the new LYLE vs Poo... toxic as fuck. 

 

@Toast show them your Lapras bro

can you not name drop us, im kinda tired of it