suigin Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 Staraptor has always historically been BL even with legendaries in lower tiers. Unless MMO finds the trick to dealing with it I can't see it not getting banned. TohnR and razimove 2
caioxlive13 Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, suigin said: Staraptor has always historically been BL even with legendaries in lower tiers. Unless MMO finds the trick to dealing with it I can't see it not getting banned. On next month with the full list of HA we can discuss if staraptor will be broken or not. Maybe with a HA mon that can deal with staraptor, he can keep.
NotMyWaifu Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 56 minutes ago, Munya said: What about starraptor, OU an appropriate place for it? There's quite a lot in UU that can take its reckless boosted hits or CC and it really struggles with longevity in general, I think it'd be okay to test it there. Here's some quick calcs. 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 151-178 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 98-116 (28.9 - 34.3%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 109-129 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 108-127 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 267-315 (73.9 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 296-350 (81.9 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 198-234 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 0 Atk Gigalith Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Staraptor: 288-342 (92.6 - 109.9%) -- approx. 43.8% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blastoise: 222-262 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 244-288 (78.4 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Donphan: 171-202 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Staraptor: 294-346 (94.5 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 127-150 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- 93% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 92+ Def Mandibuzz: 178-211 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO I can still see it ending up in UUBL though, so maybe not yet.
razimove Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, NotMyWaifu said: There's quite a lot in UU that can take its reckless boosted hits or CC and it really struggles with longevity in general, I think it'd be okay to test it there. Here's some quick calcs. 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 151-178 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 98-116 (28.9 - 34.3%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 109-129 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 108-127 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 267-315 (73.9 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 296-350 (81.9 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 198-234 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 0 Atk Gigalith Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Staraptor: 288-342 (92.6 - 109.9%) -- approx. 43.8% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blastoise: 222-262 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ SpA Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 244-288 (78.4 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Donphan: 171-202 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Staraptor: 294-346 (94.5 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 127-150 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- 93% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 92+ Def Mandibuzz: 178-211 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO I can still see it ending up in UUBL though, so maybe not yet. Now, could you calc this, but with adamant? How come you calc blastoise with +spatk nature, but always neutral on staraptor? Also, can you try with choice band? No need to use multiple moves, lets just go with brave bird as staple for the calcs. Edited October 17, 2022 by razimove
Huargensy Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, razimove said: Ahora, ¿podría calcular esto, pero con firmeza? ¿Cómo es que calc blastoise con +spatk naturaleza, pero siempre neutral en staraptor? Además, ¿puedes probar con la banda de elección? No es necesario usar múltiples movimientos, solo usemos el pájaro valiente como elemento básico para los cálculos. Toise shell smash usually goes modest, that's probably why he did it razimove 1
Munya Posted October 17, 2022 Author Posted October 17, 2022 We will be placing Staraptor pretty unanimously into OU. RysPicz, razimove, TohnR and 3 others 6
NotMyWaifu Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, razimove said: Now, could you calc this, but with adamant? How come you calc blastoise with +spatk nature, but always neutral on staraptor? Also, can you try with choice band? No need to use multiple moves, lets just go with brave bird as staple for the calcs. I assumed jolly + scarf on raptor given its base 100 speed.
Havsha Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) Not sure if this is known, but currently Transform won't copy stat changes from your opponent, which I'm pretty sure it is meant to. (It does on showdown at least) e. At least with Imposter Ditto, haven't tested without imposter Edited October 17, 2022 by Havsha gbwead and TohnR 2
TohnR Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, NotMyWaifu said: There's quite a lot in UU that can take its reckless boosted hits or CC and it really struggles with longevity in general, I think it'd be okay to test it there. Here's some quick calcs. You're calcing Scarf here. Now switch items to band and you'll see why it is problematic. I think it 2HKOs everything besides Bronzong which still gets badly weakened While being faster than most of the meta, meh seems a bit too much 17 minutes ago, Havsha said: Not sure if this is known, but currently Transform won't copy stat changes from your opponent, which I'm pretty sure it is meant to. (It does on showdown at least) e. At least with Imposter Ditto, haven't tested without imposter There's an other issue with Ditto, it can't copy Zoroark even after the disguise worn off (which is not supposed to happen) Ofc the stat changes one is much more important to fix Edited October 17, 2022 by TohnR NotMyWaifu 1
Munya Posted October 17, 2022 Author Posted October 17, 2022 Both are known issues now yeah, thanks for letting me know regardless. The stat part is imposter ditto only, transform the skill does copy stats but doesn't visually show it. TohnR, PoseidonWrath and RysPicz 1 2
Munya Posted October 17, 2022 Author Posted October 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, DARKEN said: can anyone do nidoking calcs https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/ Luke, AwaXGoku, Huargensy and 6 others 2 1 6
RysPicz Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Munya said: https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/ That's pretty rare coming from you, but I genuinely laughed at that 1 hour ago, DARKEN said: can anyone do nidoking calcs For which tier?
Munya Posted October 17, 2022 Author Posted October 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, RysPicz said: That's pretty rare coming from you, but I genuinely laughed at that I use it a fair bit, usually for comparing against what expected numbers should be in a bug reports, though I have found a few bugs on their as well so its not a 100% safe method. Occasionally I'll also look up random things when big topics of discussion come up, not to partake in the discussion but more to answer my own curiosity, its a good tool. I don't think I'd ever use it in the middle of a tournament or match though.
RysPicz Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Munya said: I use it a fair bit, usually for comparing against what expected numbers should be in a bug reports, though I have found a few bugs on their as well so its not a 100% safe method. Occasionally I'll also look up random things when big topics of discussion come up, not to partake in the discussion but more to answer my own curiosity, its a good tool. I don't think I'd ever use it in the middle of a tournament or match though. Calcing is cheating after all CaptnBaklava 1
Munya Posted October 17, 2022 Author Posted October 17, 2022 I'm not a fan but those are definitely Darkshades words not my own lol I would say its a crutch that I would rather people not use if it were up to me. RysPicz 1
razimove Posted October 18, 2022 Posted October 18, 2022 I know that we're all hyped about new mons, about OU becoming a complete jungle and whatnot, serp being broken etc, but when is it time to finally discuss Dugtrio and how unhealthy it is, or when will it publicly be addressed by the TC? RysPicz, pachima and TohnR 3
suigin Posted October 18, 2022 Posted October 18, 2022 When it becomes meta defining like every single other instance of it getting banned. It's just a matter of when it happens.
Munya Posted October 18, 2022 Author Posted October 18, 2022 I've been told Quagsire is now a thing, thoughts? Currently complexed like the others have been.
gbwead Posted October 18, 2022 Posted October 18, 2022 Not broken, but should still be moved up imo. Edward 1
suigin Posted October 18, 2022 Posted October 18, 2022 Quagsire flipflops between bottom PU and OU depending on how it feels. Don't move it up, it will likely rise on its own but it won't be a defensive uber in NU. TohnR 1
Edward Posted October 18, 2022 Posted October 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, Munya said: I've been told Quagsire is now a thing, thoughts? Currently complexed like the others have been. I guess that's fine, absorbing water is also a good ability. I guess it will continue to be a useful Pokémon in the Stall as always, nothing to other world(of course, in my nub opinon)
gbwead Posted October 18, 2022 Posted October 18, 2022 I take back what I said, probably best to let it rise on its own. EmilioGarras and suigin 2
EmilioGarras Posted October 18, 2022 Posted October 18, 2022 Yep, Quag is not much of a threat with his current nor hidden ability. Let's see how much problems can cause in a few days. TohnR 1
caioxlive13 Posted October 18, 2022 Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, EmilioGarras said: Yep, Quag is not much of a threat with his current nor hidden ability. Let's see how much problems can cause in a few days. In OU not. In UU will help stall against most part of stallbreaks, especially Fera SD. UU is better for quagsire. Not broken at all on NU but with a lot of stall teams on UU he will rise by itself. Edited October 18, 2022 by caioxlive13
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