November 2022-Movement Discussion Thread

[EmilioGarras]

Moxie Salamence

[epicdavenport]

45 minutes ago, suigin said:

For me it's Magic Guard Alakazam 🙏

I'd be happy with magic guard Kadabra in NU

[Imperial]

5 hours ago, suigin said:

Have all HAs been released? All we have been getting are repeats.

There is Infiltrator Spiritomb and Chandelure since the update, others are bad

Edited November 1, 2022 by Imperial

[Munya]

Thoughts on the outlook for UU after the most recent tournament?

[Zokuru]

3 hours ago, Munya said:

Thoughts on the outlook for UU after the most recent tournament?

Krook, Crawdaunt and Rotom seems to clearly be above the rest, Sigiliph and Snorlax can be quite oppresive and probably underrated threats.

[Umbramol]

Crawdaunt restricts the tier and forces players to run toxicroak or poliwrath every match. Players are forced to run similar cores to deal with specific threats or walls. I see a lot of teambuilds lacking diversity or have glaring weaknesses to certain stuff. The dominance of waters defensively and offensively opens up rotoms as a result, especially rotom-mow which in the current meta seems very strong. Rotom-heat remains a staple.

I believe crawdaunt, except being strong and carrying a very strong priority move, is also restricting for the tier and if it gets banned the tier will benefit. I am a little bit afraid that it will facilitate the already dominant playstyle of stall/semi stall teams though but we can't be fixing this issue with something objectively overpowered staying in the tier. That's my two cents 

[Imperial]

3 hours ago, Umbramol said:

Crawdaunt restricts the tier and forces players to run toxicroak or poliwrath every match. Players are forced to run similar cores to deal with specific threats or walls. I see a lot of teambuilds lacking diversity or have glaring weaknesses to certain stuff. The dominance of waters defensively and offensively opens up rotoms as a result, especially rotom-mow which in the current meta seems very strong. Rotom-heat remains a staple.

I believe crawdaunt, except being strong and carrying a very strong priority move, is also restricting for the tier and if it gets banned the tier will benefit. I am a little bit afraid that it will facilitate the already dominant playstyle of stall/semi stall teams though but we can't be fixing this issue with something objectively overpowered staying in the tier. That's my two cents 

I feel that Yanmega + Crawdaunt are a deadly combination and both pressure several mons in the tier.

 

For example, Yanmega's safest checks are Dusclops, Gigalith and Snorlax, all three of which Crawdaunt can deal with (although admittedly except for Gigalith, Crawdaunt can't safely switch into the following such as a potential burn or body slam para). You could include Mandibuzz, but the rocks weakness is a bit oof.

 

I agree with Umbra that players have to either include Poliwrath or Toxicroak to have a solid teambuild with UU as it currently is.

 

My feeling is that if Crawdaunt were to get banned in the future, then players will resume running Feraligatr. Although more manageable, players are likely to continue running Poliwrath/Toxicroak as a check which doesn't change the principle of potentially needing to include one of these in teambuilds.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Imperial

[Umbramol]

14 hours ago, Imperial said:

I feel that Yanmega + Crawdaunt are a deadly combination and both pressure several mons in the tier.

 

For example, Yanmega's safest checks are Dusclops, Gigalith and Snorlax, all three of which Crawdaunt can deal with (although admittedly except for Gigalith, Crawdaunt can't safely switch into the following such as a potential burn or body slam para). You could include Mandibuzz, but the rocks weakness is a bit oof.

 

I agree with Umbra that players have to either include Poliwrath or Toxicroak to have a solid teambuild with UU as it currently is.

 

My feeling is that if Crawdaunt were to get banned in the future, then players will resume running Feraligatr. Although more manageable, players are likely to continue running Poliwrath/Toxicroak as a check which doesn't change the principle of potentially needing to include one of these in teambuilds.

I agree with the yanmega part, but yanmega is not the problematic pokemon here imo. It's a combination of crobat leaving the tier and crawdaunt being able to abuse it's checks.

What I don't agree with is the feraligatr part. Before the hidden abilities I would say that feraligatr is problematic, but now, feraligatr doesn't restrict you to run very certain stuff as crawdaunt does. With the recent changes, except poliwrath and toxicroak the tier got more Pokemons that can deal with feraligatr. Those are quagsire and sableye on first glance. The dark type on crawdaunt and adaptability make it to not rely on setting up, not be able to get prankstered and gives it another strong STAB that is able to hit stuff like Vaporeon and gastrodon, which are Pokemons that conditionally could be able to handle feraligatr.

 

Therefore I believe that feraligatr isn't problematic by itself and wouldn't disrupt the meta by being overcentralizing. 

[epicdavenport]

Beating a dead horse here but thought I'd see if the view is still the same. A month into having some new counter play and losing a lot Blaziken is sitting at it's highest usage in months. Even though we do have 6 days left in the month Blaziken has 41% usage and a 53% win rate. The win rate isn't the most spectacular but rising almost 10% in use and retaining a similar/higher percent of wins shows that maybe NU doesn't have as many tools to deal with it as previously thought? 

[gbwead]

Imagine Salamence UU xD

[suigin]

Salamence will be UU before Jolteon and Milotic despite these two having like 42%-43% winrate, grim.

[Huargensy]

2 hours ago, gbwead said:

Imagine Salamence UU xD

Imagine jolteon have more usage 

[JorgeFirebolt]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:38 PM, Umbramol said:

Crawdaunt restricts the tier and forces players to run toxicroak or poliwrath every match. Players are forced to run similar cores to deal with specific threats or walls. I see a lot of teambuilds lacking diversity or have glaring weaknesses to certain stuff. The dominance of waters defensively and offensively opens up rotoms as a result, especially rotom-mow which in the current meta seems very strong. Rotom-heat remains a staple.

I believe crawdaunt, except being strong and carrying a very strong priority move, is also restricting for the tier and if it gets banned the tier will benefit. I am a little bit afraid that it will facilitate the already dominant playstyle of stall/semi stall teams though but we can't be fixing this issue with something objectively overpowered staying in the tier. That's my two cents 

I completly agree with this. I'm not an UU player, but crawdaunt does force you to have atleast a solid resistance such as poliwrath or toxicroak on every team you use, doesn't matter which team composition you're using, and on my viewpoint that's kinda unhealthy for the meta. This statement demostrates how unhealthy this mon is for UU if it does force you to use one of 2 mons on a team atleast to solid check it, all that ending on killing player's building creativity on teambuilding poliwrath / toxicroak + five mons if you want to solidly check any Crawdaunt set.

Also Crawdaunt would be good as an UUBL mon, it's prolly one of the best stallbreakers the OU meta has, and a very threatining choice band user on a clean turn, so you gotta be careful about Crawdaunt even on OU, even tho the most viable set, choice band, can get trapped on just a single move and you can try to play around with mons like ferrothorn with rocky helmet to harm crawdaunt + hazard setting so it does have few entries, or even using Poliwrath as an OU option, even toxicroak has a nice role on OU to be used, or just use a nice speedcheck that can handle and hit later on crawdaunt, so it gets pressured with hazards with a nice speed threat.

[caioxlive13]

6 hours ago, gbwead said:

Imagine Salamence UU xD

For the luck of UU Players, a very impactant HA gets released on OU, called Multiscale Nite. Because of the impact of this HA, most likely don't happen movements based on Usage, even from OU.

[JorgeFirebolt]

I mean, look at this stats, yall think Salamence will be lowered due to usage? It'll obviously remain UUBL, salamence on UU would be just a mess. It has the potential to run lots of versatile sets, thing is lots of OU players dont realize how good salamence can be. Wide movepool and good stats. IDEK how tf is Jolteon way more used than this mf....

[SweeTforU]

DROP MENCE TO UU

[caioxlive13]

5 hours ago, JorgeFirebolt said:

I mean, look at this stats, yall think Salamence will be lowered due to usage? It'll obviously remain UUBL, salamence on UU would be just a mess. It has the potential to run lots of versatile sets, thing is lots of OU players dont realize how good salamence can be. Wide movepool and good stats. IDEK how tf is Jolteon way more used than this mf....

I think so, too. It will turn the 4th Copy of Lucario into the tier. Not very good at OU (Especially now with Multiscale Dragonite, if Salamence uses his best move before Nite enter, which is the Draco Meteor, in case Salamence doesn't have another dragon move, Dragonite comes in clean and sweeps the opponent.) but for UU is broken too much.