OU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[caioxlive13]

5 hours ago, Doctor said:

I think it's more the fact that no matter what arguments we give they end up being ignored by devs so everyone's given up on that. Also, we just came out of an event, so I guess people haven't had the time to test how game-breaking those two are or aren't, myself included. Sometimes there's a big difference between theory and actual games, even if on paper something seems unbeatable, yadda, yadda, so I think it's better for the discussion if we give the new meta a bit of time to develop and see how it goes from there

Gallade is fine, no one complaint about a 1,4x Sharpness being broken, just complain about a Bad Precent a custom change could do, and a 6,7% roll is not enough to change a mon from utter garbage to a Offensive Uber. Hydrei is busted tho. Again, forcing a UU wall in your team and potentially giving up the slot of a Skarmory to avoid acummulating weakness, for example, is not Healthy at all. And plz Lumiere don't say Empo is good as a hazard setter due to competitive, this is not gen 9 to have webs and even to punish defog there is better ways to do that, like Serperior that thanks for the free evasion with open hearth. Also, what's the point of punish defog users if you can't do s*** vs the most popular defogger of the tier, that can trick a scarf or volt switch in your face?

Edited January 7 by caioxlive13

[caioxlive13]

You doc, sayed on your post: "No matter how we argue, devs will always not listen our argument". I have bad news, they won't listen because you need to convince the Tier Council first. The point you quoted on your original post was about people asking if Gallade and Hydrei will stay, and if they're going to stay or not, even if it's not TC who bringed the discussion up, is up to them to finish the discussion off. If it's broken, you don't need to waste devs time and ask them to revert, you need to ask to TC ban it and convince them on doing so. If you do, you force an action over that broken thing and they may put revert it in table. And taking advance to point things out, in that nerfing discussion, TC has to take part, it's stated on the policy. So the statement on "Changing a ban to a X/Y nerf" done in the past:    

On 12/27/2023 at 11:41 AM, gbwead said:

1. The change from a ban to a 1.3 nerf was a dev decision

Is not entirely true. TC has put a little hand on it, even if they didn't hit the hammer they contributed in discussion in some way.

Edited January 7 by caioxlive13

[Lumiere]

9 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

And plz Lumiere don't say Empo is good as a hazard setter due to competitive, this is not gen 9 to have webs and even to punish defog there is better ways to do that, like Serperior that thanks for the free evasion with open hearth. Also, what's the point of punish defog users if you can't do s*** vs the most popular defogger of the tier, that can trick a scarf or volt switch in your face?

0 SpA Rotom-Wash Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 60-72 (31.4 - 37.6%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Defog on Empo means +2, if Rotom its already chipped you win the trade, also you can carry toxic or roost in the volt switch,
Empoleon most common teammates are Gliscor & Amoonguss for some reason aswell, so you can deal vs other Rotom sets like Specs/Scarf.
Also it mostly run shuca berry to win the trade vs other Stealth Rock setters with Ice Beam if no Toxic.

I suggest playing more the tier before you talking, it seems you can't take a single comment or read properly since I just said Empo its good for OU, and everyone said it because it not only checks Hydrei like what you try to say.

[SuperBXdanielo]

Why outrage would be healthy for the meta

 

 

Dragon types today

Today, dragon types are a really big part of the metagame, but especially because of their utility. A dragon stab is very reliable, but don’t make any pokemon good by itself (except for Hydreigon with draco meteor). Garchomp is a incredible diverse mon that can be defensive, offensive and even a speed control, Dragonite has a multitude of advantages that make it the perfect sweeper, while both salamance and haxorus, which rely to much on their stab to be good, have low win rates and usage. If you really want to deal damage in the pokemmo meta, you probably want a stab close combat, (or maybe a strong ground type to use earthquake), as most of the physical attackers have at least some fighting type coverage.

 

Why, in the absence of outrage, the meta is unbalanced

As i said, the two best types to deal damage are fighting and ground, something that make the meta heavily focused on those two. You can see that by the two main defensive types being poison and flying, with some water and steal types to cover their weakness. With those two types in mind, you can easily create a very solid defensive core, especially because every wallbreaker has it’s own counter. If your team has a conkelduur as it’s main wallbreaker, then he will be useless against the opposing weezing, if it’s darmanitan, then the same will happen if you face a defensive Garchomp. Even if you manage to weaken it with other mons, they can be easily heal by a wish teleport Chansey. Your wallbreaker will end up fainting, you will probably kill the opposing wallbreaker in the same way, and now you are stuck in a hour long stall war. This is the reason why our meta is full of HO and BO teams, as you need a very diverse offense core to take down the defensive ones, while the stall teams can monopolize on the amazing defensive cores they have at their disposal, making the game revolve around these two styles.

 

How outrage will make the meta more balanced.

Outrage will provide a reliable way to deal damage, while forcing you to be careful against revenge killing attempt’s, making balanced teams more viable. Garchomp and salamance will outrage through the slow and frail offensive meta with their scarf sets, while stall teams will need to take new treaths into consideration when building their teams. Both stall and especially HO/BO will be less spammable, leading to a meta more focused on balanced teams as they can use the increase in power together with the defensive cores to survive it. Defensive mons like empoleon and ferrothorn will shine in a meta less focused on fighting types, and Chansey will be unable to spam wish the same way we see today, at least on less defensive teams. The games will be more about who destroy the enemy defensive cores first, making games more fast pace.

 

Conclusion

I really think we should give outrage a try, especially when jirachi came out as it may happen in February, when we get heatran i will not be able to think of any reason for the nerf. Gen 5 players used to deal with far stronger dragons than those we have now such as latios and kyuren B with the same defensive mons, so the move will not be so strong as people think. At least, think about outrage buff as something that can really be introduced, it’s not the same as Garchomp SD or batton pass buff.

[RysPicz]

Let me give this post a short reply: 120 base power outrage was the direct reason why Fairy type was introduced. Fairy type which we do not have.

120 bp outrage is an absolute no go in PokeMMO meta, imo

[caioxlive13]

Even dragmag not being really strong there, some mons with actual Dragon-type nukes in their Hands are very dangerous. We've seen what just happened wiith Draco Meteor Hydreigon. I'd have to agree on Rys's post @SuperBXdanielo, sorry. Also about wallbreakers, did you tried Gallade? It work greatly, defensively it can barely be checked, and to beat it you have to outoffense it. if you use a well-builded offense revolved around him you can beat one of the most toxic teams there, aka Frags team(Toxic due to being a fat balance, with longevity enough to 90% of the time carry the game for 130~150 turns. This amount of turns is usually 1h long(Move animation slows each turn to 25~30 seconds)  and we know what happens when fat teams reach time limit).

Edited January 31 by caioxlive13

[SuperBXdanielo]

16 hours ago, RysPicz said:

Let me give this post a short reply: 120 base power outrage was the direct reason why Fairy type was introduced. Fairy type which we do not have.

120 bp outrage is an absolute no go in PokeMMO meta, imo

Fairy types are a thing basically because mega evolutions are introduced, so people need a strong defensive types to deal with them. We don't have the same level of power creep here so steel types can take outrages very well, especially without kyuren B and Latios, so i really disagree with the fairy types argument. And I not sure if Gallade will really stay in the meta so I'm hesitant to build a team around him.

[YourAngst]

Fairys were put in place to combat the dragon + fighting who not only were at there peak of power in BW OU but they also compliment eachother nicely , fighting takeing down steel types so dragon types can go rampit that is the reason for farys , not megas (atleast imo) .

 

Regarding the outrage 120 retest you sugest i also disagree , heres why, first and the most important any sort of comparison between pokemmo OU and BW OU is a turn off , no we don t have the same deffensive mons as they did we don t even have the same mechanics (and weather  being permanent alone  is a huge one im not goona bother to explain) as for deffensive mons there is heatran(huge) , lando-t(huge as well) , jirachi (not yet atleast) , latias (huge for checking fighting thus makeing the dragons less potent as i said above) ,slowtwins with regen(huge ) ,tangrowth with regen(huge) and celebi(debatable if would help here )  .

 

Kyurem-B is also not a good exemple , first that thing was checked offensivly only ( due to low base speed ) not to mention its ''nice'' movepoll made kyrem-b essentially a pure dragon with some niche move choices , what i mean is that K-B was ''easy'' to wall due to its only stab being dragon so its not a good exemple of ''they used the same deffensive mons to deal with''

 

In the first post you said that the 120 outrage will help balance teams rise since they have access to both deffensive and offensive options and while that is true the part where they would rise thanks to outrage it is not , in fact it would be balanced and stall who will suffer the most from this and HO/BO teams would become hard to deal with , way to hard for balanced, main thing that comes to mind would be mix dragons like chomp and dnite now haveing 120 and 130 base power STABS on both sides of the spectrum something that balanced teams can t deal with , so the effect would be quite the opposite of what you said and again fighting types would not be ''less seen'' with this outrage buff .

 

Think about it for a second if steel types would become more boundful in the meta to deal with the 120 base power outrage dosen t that implay that those dragons would be seen along side fighting types? you know? to brake the steel / deffensive cores so dragons can run rampit , affter all why would you lock into outrage with the scarf dragon when there is a steel type still alive? You won t , you let you re fighting type brake the steel mon so then dragons can go ham .

 

With out the fairy typeing any sorf of buff to dragons ( and i mean a buff to  all dragons not just individual ones like SD chomp and DM hydra) would indirectly become a buff to fighting types as well and from that to all forms of offense so no an outrage buff/retest should never see the ligth of day untill we get some extremly solid ways to deal with something like this not necessarily farys per say but some solid deffensive cores , first step in that direction has already been made , its named zapdos ( can t thank you enough devs for this one) , zapdos is a real buff to balanced teams , 120 outrage would be a nerf , maybe IF in the future we get more buff like this one then an outrage retest can be considered but they way things are now outrage is a no go .

 

Also if all you need is a good wallbraker besides gallade just use conk alongside pursuit ttar

[SuperBXdanielo]

3 hours ago, YourAngst said:

Fairys were put in place to combat the dragon + fighting who not only were at there peak of power in BW OU but they also compliment eachother nicely , fighting takeing down steel types so dragon types can go rampit that is the reason for farys , not megas (atleast imo) .

 

Regarding the outrage 120 retest you sugest i also disagree , heres why, first and the most important any sort of comparison between pokemmo OU and BW OU is a turn off , no we don t have the same deffensive mons as they did we don t even have the same mechanics (and weather  being permanent alone  is a huge one im not goona bother to explain) as for deffensive mons there is heatran(huge) , lando-t(huge as well) , jirachi (not yet atleast) , latias (huge for checking fighting thus makeing the dragons less potent as i said above) ,slowtwins with regen(huge ) ,tangrowth with regen(huge) and celebi(debatable if would help here )  .

 

Kyurem-B is also not a good exemple , first that thing was checked offensivly only ( due to low base speed ) not to mention its ''nice'' movepoll made kyrem-b essentially a pure dragon with some niche move choices , what i mean is that K-B was ''easy'' to wall due to its only stab being dragon so its not a good exemple of ''they used the same deffensive mons to deal with''

 

In the first post you said that the 120 outrage will help balance teams rise since they have access to both deffensive and offensive options and while that is true the part where they would rise thanks to outrage it is not , in fact it would be balanced and stall who will suffer the most from this and HO/BO teams would become hard to deal with , way to hard for balanced, main thing that comes to mind would be mix dragons like chomp and dnite now haveing 120 and 130 base power STABS on both sides of the spectrum something that balanced teams can t deal with , so the effect would be quite the opposite of what you said and again fighting types would not be ''less seen'' with this outrage buff .

 

Think about it for a second if steel types would become more boundful in the meta to deal with the 120 base power outrage dosen t that implay that those dragons would be seen along side fighting types? you know? to brake the steel / deffensive cores so dragons can run rampit , affter all why would you lock into outrage with the scarf dragon when there is a steel type still alive? You won t , you let you re fighting type brake the steel mon so then dragons can go ham .

 

With out the fairy typeing any sorf of buff to dragons ( and i mean a buff to  all dragons not just individual ones like SD chomp and DM hydra) would indirectly become a buff to fighting types as well and from that to all forms of offense so no an outrage buff/retest should never see the ligth of day untill we get some extremly solid ways to deal with something like this not necessarily farys per say but some solid deffensive cores , first step in that direction has already been made , its named zapdos ( can t thank you enough devs for this one) , zapdos is a real buff to balanced teams , 120 outrage would be a nerf , maybe IF in the future we get more buff like this one then an outrage retest can be considered but they way things are now outrage is a no go .

 

Also if all you need is a good wallbraker besides gallade just use conk alongside pursuit ttar

I am not really into the meta of the 6 generation so I will not keep talking about that, but I really think we don't need fairy types or those mons to counter the Dragon/fighting types we have, especially because our offense is way weaker than in bw too, and we even have neutralizing gas weezing who completely counter any fighting type except for Infernape. If the opposing team use both fighting and dragon to deal with the steel types, then you should just do the same and put a resistance to fighting together with the steel type. Heatran would be a useful addition if we have outrage (adding it right now will probably create a defensive power creep in the same level as the regenerators). Jirachi seems more like a revenge killer for the dragons, all of the good ones are hit 4× by ice, jirachi can take a outrage and hit a Ice Punch, making outrage spam more dangerous to the user.

 

I said that balanced teams would rise because they have both the tools to defend against the dragon types, use and revenge kill them. As I said, the three main ones are hit 4× to ice, Dragonite and salamance can be outspeed by scarf Mienshao and receive stone edge or hidden power ice in return, you can even use Dragonite as setup fodder for a scarf moxie salamance, so it would be a fight about who destroy the enemy defensive core and opposing speed control Mon to use outrage in the end, if both of them relie on dragon types for end game cleaning at least.

 

Hyper Offense will have a hard time with garchomp outrage being a thing, he can basically outspeed all of the HO cores we have, even salamance can do the same when volcarona fainted to not get burned, BO will be the way so it can have Metagross or jirachi support to survive those.

 

I don't know if we need any new defensive cores for now, balanced teams still lack the offense they need to surpass walls, especially against stall teams, but I agree that Zapdos is a nice addition against common HO cores. I said that fighting would be less common, but it's more like the meta will be less focused on them, so sorry for that.

 

I don't get the conk pursuit core, it seems like a old core to deal with cofagrigus but don't seems to work with weezing very well as it can be heal by Chansey and even have some speed investment to burn tytar(that's my strategy to flamethrower bulky Scizor), but maybe I can try.

[Ziiiiio]

GM added fairy type because they realized the balance of dragons and steel move, about thoes dragons MMO did diffrently but with same logic. Before fairys came, we can't really buff any dragons, it's very clear that dragons are strong enough, what is the point to play other attackers if we buff them. You will see a scarf chomp kills starmie after rocks if we do that.

 

There are many things already in game can solve stall, compare to BW we have CC breloom and scizor, also there is a 1.5 gallade they have not nerf yet go feed one.

 

, 

[SuperBXdanielo]

25 minutes ago, Ziiiiio said:

GM added fairy type because they realized the balance of dragons and steel move, about thoes dragons MMO did diffrently but with same logic. Before fairys came, we can't really buff any dragons, it's very clear that dragons are strong enough, what is the point to play other attackers if we buff them. You will see a scarf chomp kills starmie after rocks if we do that.

 

There are many things already in game can solve stall, compare to BW we have CC breloom and scizor, also there is a 1.5 gallade they have not nerf yet go feed one.

 

, 

I hope they don't remove zen headbutt from breloom too

[BlackNey]

Well since they released the banishment of Heydreigon’s Draco, I was asking myself why did they do that? And what is the relevance of that? It seems like you need to be a stall player to be rewarded on that game. Cause seriously, Hydreigon is one of the unique pokemons that are able to be a threat against any stall team, and thinking about that that’s the type of thing that we want in a game. Basically the stall players need to find a new way to play against the Heydreigon and the offensive players need to find a new counter for these new wall , that’s the beauty and idea of the game, this is something that I was thinking and talking with some friends about and we all think that it’s not fair to forbid Hydreigon’s Draco cause this is not something wrong that “breaks” the game, is a resource an alternative, like Gallade is, like Darmanitan, Breloom, we can all think about different ways to play, to create teams, to have more diversity of strategies and ideas on the game and I didn’t think about this about myself more players very active on the community, like YouTubers, regular players also thought like that, and in the end this  is what Pokémon is about.

[Huargensy]

1 hour ago, BlackNey said:

Well since they released the banishment of Heydreigon’s Draco, I was asking myself why did they do that? And what is the relevance of that? It seems like you need to be a stall player to be rewarded on that game. Cause seriously, Hydreigon is one of the unique pokemons that are able to be a threat against any stall team, and thinking about that that’s the type of thing that we want in a game. Basically the stall players need to find a new way to play against the Heydreigon and the offensive players need to find a new counter for these new wall , that’s the beauty and idea of the game, this is something that I was thinking and talking with some friends about and we all think that it’s not fair to forbid Hydreigon’s Draco cause this is not something wrong that “breaks” the game, is a resource an alternative, like Gallade is, like Darmanitan, Breloom, we can all think about different ways to play, to create teams, to have more diversity of strategies and ideas on the game and I didn’t think about this about myself more players very active on the community, like YouTubers, regular players also thought like that, and in the end this  is what Pokémon is about.

I am not going to take into account the opinion of youtubers who do not even know how to review the forum, I just saw a video of one completely misinforming, on the other hand, I do not see how hydreigon without draco meteor stops being a problem vs stall, it still has taunt, fire spin, nasty plot and enough bulky to boost on many walls, the only thing that draco meteor offered was to also complicate balanced or offense, draco meteor specs is almost always 1 mon less in offense, while in balanced it can also be one less, unless you play chansey (ccof cof  focus energy)  or some steel, but with the coverage of flame or focus blast you play 50/50 with the chance of losing and being left without your dragon resist, not even mienshao AV is able to do wall against this one when we used it as a wall to count hydreigon, we also had the focus energy strategy that literally erases the balanced every time it is played well, etc etc

Edited February 1 by Huargensy

[Doctor]

2 hours ago, BlackNey said:

Well since they released the banishment of Heydreigon’s Draco, I was asking myself why did they do that? And what is the relevance of that? It seems like you need to be a stall player to be rewarded on that game. Cause seriously, Hydreigon is one of the unique pokemons that are able to be a threat against any stall team, and thinking about that that’s the type of thing that we want in a game. Basically the stall players need to find a new way to play against the Heydreigon and the offensive players need to find a new counter for these new wall , that’s the beauty and idea of the game, this is something that I was thinking and talking with some friends about and we all think that it’s not fair to forbid Hydreigon’s Draco cause this is not something wrong that “breaks” the game, is a resource an alternative, like Gallade is, like Darmanitan, Breloom, we can all think about different ways to play, to create teams, to have more diversity of strategies and ideas on the game and I didn’t think about this about myself more players very active on the community, like YouTubers, regular players also thought like that, and in the end this  is what Pokémon is about.

Pokémon is about complaining when I lose vs. the playstyle I don't like, according to this forums

 

This is the tl;dr of every discussion about every single topic, somehow stall is the devil to blame for every situation and the argument to give for every unbanning lmao

[bobliu]

Farewell DM Hydre, I will always miss you💔

[caioxlive13]

4 hours ago, Doctor said:

Pokémon is about complaining when I lose vs. the playstyle I don't like, according to this forums

 

This is the tl;dr of every discussion about every single topic, somehow stall is the devil to blame for every situation and the argument to give for every unbanning lmao

Maybe it's because there wasn't a single nerf in defensive strats since sinnoh in 2020 even with things deserviing?(Amongus and Dugtrio, i'm looking to both of you)

But talking seriously, a mon being able to break through defensive teams, that are know to not being easily breaked, is a Red-flag. If there is no flaw on him to compensate, then it can deserve a Ban, beause it can manage to break even the most resistant mons there. Gallade breaks easily the most popular defensive teams, but their mediocre physical defensive bulk makes outoffense it very easy. Also since he uses Choice items, most often Scarf, it are prone to status conditions and he is grounded, so it's prone to hazard stacking. Hydreigon being banned is because there is no major flaw to overshadow their destrutive capability. 130 BP Draco is a nuke, even more with the Highest sp. atk of Dragons there using it. Also it was virtually untrappable(Shadow Tag wobbu couldn't do s***, AT won't work and pursuit deals no dmg due to resists), and the hazard dmg Hydrei ocould be worried is just rocks, but 12% is manageable. So he can always switch and remove the SpA drop, the realistic Draco Meteor's drawback. Scarf Hydrei is almost impossible to outspeed due to 98 Base speed

[SuperBXdanielo]

On 2/1/2024 at 9:48 PM, Doctor said:

Pokémon is about complaining when I lose vs. the playstyle I don't like, according to this forums

 

This is the tl;dr of every discussion about every single topic, somehow stall is the devil to blame for every situation and the argument to give for every unbanning lmao

It's like we are being prohibited to use paper, broken things like wish tp Chansey or suicune are ignored despite being as strong and centralizing as Hydreigon, but we are supposed to just ignored and keep playing hyper offense to have a chance against stall. And we have a huge language barrier that keep a huge part of the player base far away from the forums, it's unfair to blame them like that

[Ziiiiio]

The problem is the visualization of hydregon is hard to predict, it gets too much new moves from later gens, There are 5 kinds of set in OU meta: Specs, mix, sub+np, Taunt+roost and scarf. Ban draco mentor is one way to solve this balancing issue, makes AV mienshao checks it. otherwise maybe we ban Focusblast or NP from hydregon, to lower down the pressure of prediction.

 

Hydregon is strong not only because how much damage it brings, let's say Specs salamence even is outspeed Hydre but why no one use it? Because hydre is too perfect

-Item AV wont work, someone already put calcs up there.

-Steath rock wont do much to it,.

-Due to dark type+levitate, Pursuit, Dugdrio, Mirror Coat can't solve it. 

-8pp recover=8pp DM, Specs hydre can press one dark pulse and force you to recover on it. This makes some spa walls like Mantine or porygon can't safely check it.

-Not just a pure wallbreaker, 98base speed makes it not having any bad mu with HO and balance.

 

We need nerf some part on hydregon anyway, ban draco mentor is the most logical approach because it has been added to makes it broken.

 

Edited February 4 by Ziiiiio

[Godhelll]

wrong topic can be deleted

 

Edited February 12 by Godhelll

[caioxlive13]

16 hours ago, Godhelll said:

Busso is right,

 

The subject regarding Gallade was more important and should have come before Dugtrio. In any case, fixing Dugtrio and Gallade can only do good for the health of the tier, but it is true that we cannot compare the two, Gallade is infinitely more problematic and therefore, it would be a good thing if a subject concerning Gallade was opened again, because it had been nerfed the first time with good reasons, however, the Pokemon was returned to its full power, without it being discussed with the community, while almost all players were against the return of Sharpness Gallade at 1.5 in game, sadly

 

Besides, as there is currently no open discussion anymore regarding Gallade, it's better to talk about its problematic here than nowhere

 

 

If i answer that on the dug thread Munya would 100% hide because off-topic. Posting there instead, which is more apropriated. 

Want to ask what happened to gallade suddently be broken now. 
When it was 1,3x boost, everyone accepted and no one complained. 
When it was 1,4x boost, People complained due to 1,4x being bad precedent. Still, no one claimed it was broken. 

What changed from a 1,4x Sharpness Gallde to a 1,5x Sharpness Gallade, that maked it too much to be handled?

[gbwead]

Devs decided to buff Sharpness back to x1.5 as indicated in the last update patch notes. TC had nothing to do with it. 

[GodobitoFF]

Enserio gallade es un problema más grande que hydreigon con cometa draco y tras del echo prefieren volver a buff a gallade con su 1.5 y quitar cometa draco a hydreigon esto no tiene nada de lógica actualmente en ou veo más problemático a gallade que hydreigon con su cometa

[caioxlive13]

4 hours ago, gbwead said:

Devs decided to buff Sharpness back to x1.5 as indicated in the last update patch notes. TC had nothing to do with it. 

I'm not asking why the change happened. I'm asking what maked Gallade broken now with 1,5x Sharpness. Because when it was 1,3x and 1,4x Sharpness, no one complained due to it being broken. There was complaining about 1,4x being bad precedents, but no claims that the mon was broken. Now that got back to 1,5x , there is complains that the mon is broken. The question i'm doing is what a 1,5x Sharpness Gallade does now that an  1,3x Sharpness Gallade or a 1,4x Sharpness Gallade doesn't?

Edited February 13 by caioxlive13

[Doctor]

3 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

I'm not asking why the change happened. I'm asking what maked Gallade broken now with 1,5x Sharpness. Because when it was 1,3x and 1,4x Sharpness, no one complained due to it being broken. There was complaining about 1,4x being bad precedents, but no claims that the mon was broken. Now that got back to 1,5x , there is complains that the mon is broken. The question i'm doing is what a 1,5x Sharpness Gallade does now that an  1,3x Sharpness Gallade or a 1,4x Sharpness Gallade doesn't?

More damage, Caio. More damage. And it became 1,3x because 1,5x was broken before. It was always broken.

[caioxlive13]

10 minutes ago, Doctor said:

More damage, Caio. More damage. And it became 1,3x because 1,5x was broken before. It was always broken.

yea, surely a 6,7% roll might make something broken. I give the same argument that was given back when it was banned: Gallade is not a mon supposed to be walled. Is a mon that you should outoffense to win. Also, gallade isn't exactly splashable like other mons there such as scizor, and is extremelly prone to hazard chip due to it being switched back and forth due to scarf sets. And no, the others i won't bring to the table because i don't need to, since w/o scarf, gallade still has to switch a lot because most teams except fat balanceds , stalls and frags teams-alike, has 3 to 4 mons able to outspeed it.(A gallade theorically cannot switch in on my team if aren't scarf, because Scizor hits it with Priority and everything else are faster than him. ) Gallade isn't exactly broken due to how our meta are right now. You need to outoffense it to win and 60~70% of the teams can, because they're Bulky Offenses, Climatic, or Hyper Offense.  

Edited February 13 by caioxlive13